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January 16, 2013, 09:23 PM | #126 |
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#4
Expect a redefining of misdemeanors for gun prohibition from Holder and it being retroactive as it was for domestic assault
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January 16, 2013, 11:07 PM | #127 | |
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January 16, 2013, 11:38 PM | #128 |
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Does the limit at 7 round capacity thereby eliminate sales of Garands thru the CMP?
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January 16, 2013, 11:47 PM | #129 | ||
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Somebody a lot smarter then me needs to reed that stuff . It seems quite complex and does appear to store some if not all of your private info . Im still reading it and have not seen anything stating if the info on the computers is a complete personal history or if it's just the negative things that would proclude you from owning a firearm EDIT: Quote:
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January 16, 2013, 11:51 PM | #130 |
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I'm not too afeared of the legislative proposals, and I'm folding up my tin foil hat on the executive orders. But make no mistake, there's very much mischief tied into those proposals, especially as they pertain to mental health records and the behavior of doctors and counselors.
I'm considered a complete, but harmless, loon by my co-workers (by virtue, if nothing else, of merely being a gun owner). Okay, the big Glasden Flag on the wall might add to it. I'd hate to think that if I was really struggling with evil ideation or a complete inability to function, I would fear seeking out help. Given this environment, I would be. Well, until I reached the poo-flinging stage.
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January 16, 2013, 11:58 PM | #131 | |
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January 17, 2013, 02:16 AM | #132 |
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Background Checks are the Best Solution
Personally, I really feel that banning semi-auto military-style rifles, standard and high-capacity magazines will not provide a lasting solution to the problem. Bad guys will simply carry more magazines. This will only serve to destroy the features and capabilities of arms available to lawful people. Background checks, I agree. But I feel that it is the right of law-abiding citizens who pass background checks, psychological tests and maybe even drug tests to own military rifles for home-defense, collecting and recreational purposes. If you are qualified, then there shouldn't be any problem to own a military-style rifle.
Last edited by freedash22; January 17, 2013 at 02:36 AM. |
January 17, 2013, 02:35 AM | #133 | |
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Drawing up standards for all the additional testing would be extremely complex and rife with possibilities for abuse and failures of the system. Neither a psych eval or drug tests could be completed in a timely manner or reliably on site at LGSs, creating a de facto waiting period and a logistic nightmare. Who's going to pay for all this? How do you define "military rifle"? For all these reasons and more I reject your notion of "the right of a law-abiding citizen". It amazes me that the idea of submitting to further and further intrusions which are more and more invasive seems to come so naturally to so many as of late. |
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January 17, 2013, 03:08 AM | #134 |
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Gun Control
Understood sigcurious, I feel that a lot of your opinions are realistic and just, especially with the problems excessive health testing will cause but let me explain. First off, I do not believe gun control laws like this will fix anything. Smaller magazine capacities and a ban on military-style (all rifles that are modelled after existing military rifles with semi-auto fire i.e. AR-15 and AK47) rifles? Armor piercing bullets? Nope.
The new laws I feel are a problem because they can be warped by gun-control activists into excessive measures i.e. armor piercing bullets being "all pointed bullets" (rifle cartridges) or all bullets that can pass through a level IIa vest (covers almost all +P pistol rounds) and Military-style rifles being "scary" black rifles. God forbid one day someone goes on a shooting spree with a pistol with a 10-round magazine and then all of a sudden 5-round magazines is the new legal standard. However, as a responsible owner of firearms myself I am simply expressing my concerns about how we can possibly prevent people with psychological issues from causing damage with legally-purchased firearms. I have great respect for responsible gun owners. Why? Because all the lawful gun owners I know will do everything they can to protect others from harm. But when mentally unstable people get their hands on firearms and do damage it ruins the image of responsible gun owners everywhere. Which is unfair but this is how the media spins it. This is the reality I find to be unfair. And about your point on who is going to pay for all these tests and background checks, I agree. I think it should be the government. I know with the current deficit that may no longer be an option but I cannot see why it cannot be so. The US government can bailout big banks with billions and even trillions of dollars with taxpayer's money but have no money for armed guards in schools to protect children? Seriously? And then the corrupt bankers get ridiculous bonuses with taxpayer's money? I feel like that is just plain unfair to all taxpayers everywhere. Just my 2 cents. |
January 17, 2013, 09:01 AM | #135 |
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Here's a question??
With all of this talk about "assault weapons"
Where does that leave the NFA Items, & people that own them?
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January 17, 2013, 09:05 AM | #136 |
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January 17, 2013, 09:24 AM | #137 | |
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January 17, 2013, 10:24 AM | #138 |
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I think the medical and mental health angel is a slippery slope that ends in a quagmire of quicksand.
At some point, even if just for a few seconds, everyone could be judged as a threat to themselves and others. It has been mentioned that privacy concerns could keep people from seeking help, I am sure it would. But has any thought been given to the people that have not committed violent crimes because they felt safe in asking for help, then went on to be productive citizens? Asking for help with mental or emotional problems is already stigmatized in this country. If privacy in the medical professions is abdicated to the "greater good" I am confident it will increase violence because many people, that would have been successfully treated, will not feel safe in asking for help.
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Seams like once we the people give what, at the time, seams like a reasonable inch and "they" take the unreasonable mile we can only get that mile back one inch at a time. No spelun and grammar is not my specialty. So please don't hurt my sensitive little feelings by teasing me about it. |
January 17, 2013, 10:36 AM | #139 | |
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January 17, 2013, 10:51 AM | #140 |
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16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.
They may ask. My response will be no. It's none of their damn business if I own firearms. And a small aside to this. The other day at the podiatrist's office they were asking various medical questions. One of which was. "Do I wear a seat belt while riding in an automobile." My response was. "What relevance does this have on my treatment?" |
January 17, 2013, 11:35 AM | #141 |
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Let me link you guys to a few "good examples" of an Executive Order so you get a better feel for what they look like in writing. Then you can make up your own mind as to how they compare with what we have been shown.
The first one I chose from memory, the others I chose at random. http://www.fas.org/irp/offdocs/eo/eo-10290.pdf http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13205 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13218 http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13128 http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...der/11478.html http://www.archives.gov/federal-regi...der/10399.html This is the most recent executive order signed by President Obama just last year that is currently on record. http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2012...2012-30310.pdf Now I haven't seen any documentation that looks like any of these yet, have you ?
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January 17, 2013, 02:38 PM | #142 |
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explaint to me I'm slow
OK, explain to me I'm not seeing as much here as I thought I would. I thought he was going to name 23 new laws we would have to swallow. I'm seeing for example "time for congress to renew and reinstate the 10 round limit on mags and reinstate and strengthen the assault weapons ban". Well that's not a out right ban,or a new law, that's asking congress to pass one which I kind of doubt that they can. But asking congress to act is way different than saying this is now the new law. Or am I missing something? I thought he was just going to say this is now the law.That's not what I think I heard. I have to admit my disgust for communism and this man makes it very hard to listen to him or even read what he has done.
Last edited by Buzzard Bait; January 17, 2013 at 02:52 PM. |
January 17, 2013, 02:47 PM | #143 |
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I see where doctors who accept Medicare, Medicaid and other government insurance are gonna get strong armed into disqualifying people from firearm ownership. Withholding funding is the Feds greatest weapon. I see highway funds and the like getting withheld from states with gun rights too.
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January 17, 2013, 03:18 PM | #144 |
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get real can't any one in politics just say get real
Ok so where do criminals acquire guns? Would not it be realistic to think the marketplace would be something like the trunk of a car in an alley some place. Does any one think the proper forms will get filled out during this transaction? Or that any regulation of any type would have any effect? The complete ban on illicit drugs of all the different types has worked well hasn't it? The real problem might be the complete and total failure of the criminal Justis system to identify and catch criminals, and to rehabilitate any of the few they do catch and the inability to identify the ones who can't be rehabilitated and keep them incarcerated. If anything the prison system has become a college for criminals where they go in armatures and come out highly trained professional criminals almost like getting a degree.
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January 17, 2013, 03:22 PM | #145 |
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This has been said many times, already, but Executive Orders are very limited in what they can do. They can clarify or direct how Executive agencies implement laws passed by Congress. EOs do not create law.
What Obama is doing is promulgating EOs on one hand, while trying to spur Congress into passing tougher laws on the other hand. It is a two-pronged approach. Note that in the case of EOs that Congress has not liked, Congress has specifically witheld funding (example, CDC firearm research - which is why Obama is trying to cajole Congress into funding that). |
January 17, 2013, 03:27 PM | #146 |
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The BATFE director position EO is also due in part to fear on behalf of the Executive Branch that Congress wouldn't confirm a nomination for a BATFE director without Fast and Furious questions.
I have written my Congressional representatives saying that I don't want them to confirm a BATFE director until that lying, thieving, murdering group of thugs answers for Fast and Furious.
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January 17, 2013, 03:46 PM | #147 |
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The very sad reality of these EO's Obama is so desperately trying to sell by stooping to the lowest level of using children to pull at the heartstrings of the American people is just disgraceful , have already proven to not curb violence and will not stop the tragedies in the future like Obama is trying to portray they will.
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January 17, 2013, 04:30 PM | #148 |
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MLeake I understand what you are saying, but try to see what I am saying.
What we have been shown is one thing. But we have been told something else and the real thing looks very different as well. Look at those links on Executive orders and you will see some things they have in common. The are grounded in an accepted executive power, the President's way of saying, "hey, this is my job to do". The have a date when they will take effect. Depending on purpose they have many common elements. None of these elements are on any of the short summary statements of what these EOs are? I don't believe the real language has been given to us. I do know that on TV he stated and showed us himself signing the documents. So what did he sign and why have they not released the true language of the documents?
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January 17, 2013, 04:50 PM | #149 |
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lcpiper, what happens is that the EO, if they are actual directives, go to the indicated agency and to Government Printing Office (GPO). The GPO then prints and releases the EO's to the Federal Register.... That's when we get to see exactly what was written/directed (unless, of course, it relates to National Security).
This is what I'm waiting for, before I make too many asinine comments. |
January 17, 2013, 04:57 PM | #150 |
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When they are released, they'll be posted here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-r...ecutive-orders
They're not there yet, and I've been checking umpteen times per day. I'll sound the call when they show up, if nobody beats me to it.
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