Help! Need new cylinder for older repro 1858

ren219 · September 7, 2008, 09:57 PM

Looking for some help from any of you gurus. I found my Dad's old 1858 Remington. The nipples are rusted in, but the rest of the gun cleaned up. I have tried everything to get the old nipples out to no avail. The cylinder from my newer Pietta 58 fits and rotates, but the threaded holes for the nipples are deeper so the hammer on my Dad's gun won't strike the caps. The hammer for a newer gun won't work at all.

The barrel on my Dad's gun is marked made in Italy, Navy Arms on the top, and the proof stamp is for 1981.

Anyone know how I can find the right cylinder? I've looked at Dixie Gun and Numrich with no luck. If anyone can give me anymore resources I would be very grateful.
Thanks.

Hawg · September 7, 2008, 10:11 PM

Try putting a little heat from a propane torch on the base of the cylinder where the nipples screw in. It should free them up.

ren219 · September 7, 2008, 10:18 PM

Thanks for the quick reply Hawg.
I really have tried "everything" to get the old nipples out. I have been a motorcycle/atv/snowmobile mechanic for about 15 years now, and I'm no stranger to stuck, rusted, broken bolts and screws. Penetrating oil, heat, tapping, heck, I even tried an easy out on one that had broken. I have three of them out, but the other three won't budge.
This gun had been sitting in a closet for who knows how long before my Dad passed away three years ago. I just found it recently.
I have already invested a lot of time in it, I hope I can just find a proper replacement cylinder at this point.

Hawg · September 7, 2008, 10:37 PM

I think the older Navy Arms were made by Armi San Paolo now Euroarms. VTI might have a cylinder that will fit. You should be able to find the makers mark and date code on it. This site might help you. http://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PD...Proofmarks.pdf

mykeal · September 8, 2008, 07:48 AM

It may be that some early Navy Arms guns were Armi San Paolo; however, I have an 1977 1851 Navy from Navy Arms that was made by Pietta, so there is at least some uncertainty there.

Euroarms/Armi San Paolo parts are hard to find. VTI does not list them separately, so finding a cylinder that will work is unfortunately a crap shoot. If you can determine that the gun was made by Pietta (look for the letters FAP inside a diamond shape on the underside of the barrel or the frame in front of the trigger guard), VTI does carry those cylinders. However, the age of the gun may make that just as big a crap shoot.

However, it is possible to buy longer nipples. Track of the Wolf sells more than one length in most thread sizes. My Navy Arms/Pietta uses M6X0.75 thread nipples that are .520 overall length. The Treso part number is 11-50-10. Treso also makes an M6X0.75 thread nipple that is .603 overall length, part number 11-50-03. That difference may be enough to solve the problem. You may also be able to put a washer under the nipple to bush it out enough to work.

The Track of the Wolf catalog ID for the 11-50-03 nipple is RLP-A; it's the one that fits the Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

grymster2007 · September 8, 2008, 09:35 AM

One could machine out the nipples with a lathe, milling machine or drill press, but ya' kinda need to know what you're doing.

Another option is to take it to a reputable machine shop and have them machine the stuck nipples out. Probably a couple hours labor, so won't be cheap (in fact, might well cost more than a new copy of the gun), but if your gun has sentimental value, this will get it fixed.

Smokin_Gun · September 8, 2008, 11:29 AM

Quote:

The barrel on my Dad's gun is marked made in Italy, Navy Arms on the top, and the proof stamp is for 1981.

If the Rev has a <FAP> in a diamond it's a Pietta, if ASP a DGG on frame under grips, If t were Euroarms it would say so... A Uberti Cylinder will work fine in an ASP or Euroarms, and a Pietta. Pietta will not fit in a Uberti or ASP/Euroarms w/o shavin' .010" off the chamber end.
You can also drill them out, tap and get one size over cones(nipples)
http://www.thunder-ridge.com/ (alot a work)
Anyway,
For Parts ASP or Euroarms here's a place, or Dixie Gun Works, Cabelas.

http://www.ssfirearms.com/

SG

sundance44s · September 8, 2008, 12:40 PM

I`ve had some stuck so bad on used guns I`ve bought ..I had to soak for 2 weeks in break free ..2 nipple wrenches latter I was able to get them all out ...another one I had same way ...after the 2 week soaking I only was able to get 3 out ...The other 3 looked good enough to use ..so I took the gun out and shot it ...after warming it up from the shooting ...I tried a nipple wrench on the stuck nipples at the range and they came loose , from the heat and vibrations of me shooting it .
If you want a replacement cylinder ..we just need to figure out if your gun is San Polo/ EuroArms made or Pietta or Uberti ...VTI doesn`t stock alot of parts for the Euro pistol ...but there is a company called S&S firearms that does ..If your pistol is made by Pietta ..you can get a cylinder at Cabelas .

mykeal · September 8, 2008, 05:02 PM

S&S lists the Euroarms .44 Remington cylinder with nipples as part number RM14 for $79 on page 33 of their 2008 catalog. Their number is 718-497-1100. However, I think it's unlikely the gun is Euroarms/ASP, so I'd hold off on ordering one until I knew for sure.

Frankly, since the cylinder from your Pietta Remington fits except for the nipples being short, I'd order a Pietta cylinder and the longer Treso nipples.

sundance44s · September 8, 2008, 07:54 PM

You should be able to figure out who made the pistol by reading here ..it will show you what marks to look for and where to look ...https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/P...Proofmarks.pdf

ren219 · September 8, 2008, 08:02 PM

Thanks all for your time and very helpful information. This is exactly what I was looking for. I can always count on good forum members. As you can see by my join date and number of posts, I'm a pretty good lurker! I guess I just don't have much to say. There is almost always and answer somewhere.

I think I will try the longer nipples, if that doesn't work, then it will become a mantle piece. My brothers and I all own several black powder firearms so it's not too big of a deal if it doesn't work, however, I do have a hard time owning any firearm that does not function!

Thanks again and I will keep you updated.
BTW, It looks like it is a Euroarms or Armi San Paolo, found a DGG stamped on the frame under the grips.

mykeal · September 9, 2008, 06:42 AM

Good - since it's Euroarms you now have 4 options:

1) longer nipples
2) washers under the nipples
3) new cylinder & nipples from S&S
4) wall hangar

But 4 is really a last resort; one of the first 3 is bound to work.

September 7, 2008, 09:57 PM	#1
ren219 Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: northern utah Posts: 35	Help! Need new cylinder for older repro 1858 Looking for some help from any of you gurus. I found my Dad's old 1858 Remington. The nipples are rusted in, but the rest of the gun cleaned up. I have tried everything to get the old nipples out to no avail. The cylinder from my newer Pietta 58 fits and rotates, but the threaded holes for the nipples are deeper so the hammer on my Dad's gun won't strike the caps. The hammer for a newer gun won't work at all. The barrel on my Dad's gun is marked made in Italy, Navy Arms on the top, and the proof stamp is for 1981. Anyone know how I can find the right cylinder? I've looked at Dixie Gun and Numrich with no luck. If anyone can give me anymore resources I would be very grateful. Thanks.

September 8, 2008, 09:35 AM	#6
grymster2007 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa Posts: 2,203	One could machine out the nipples with a lathe, milling machine or drill press, but ya' kinda need to know what you're doing. Another option is to take it to a reputable machine shop and have them machine the stuck nipples out. Probably a couple hours labor, so won't be cheap (in fact, might well cost more than a new copy of the gun), but if your gun has sentimental value, this will get it fixed. __________________ grym

September 7, 2008, 10:11 PM	#2
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	Try putting a little heat from a propane torch on the base of the cylinder where the nipples screw in. It should free them up.

September 7, 2008, 10:18 PM	#3
ren219 Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: northern utah Posts: 35	Thanks for the quick reply Hawg. I really have tried "everything" to get the old nipples out. I have been a motorcycle/atv/snowmobile mechanic for about 15 years now, and I'm no stranger to stuck, rusted, broken bolts and screws. Penetrating oil, heat, tapping, heck, I even tried an easy out on one that had broken. I have three of them out, but the other three won't budge. This gun had been sitting in a closet for who knows how long before my Dad passed away three years ago. I just found it recently. I have already invested a lot of time in it, I hope I can just find a proper replacement cylinder at this point.

September 7, 2008, 10:37 PM	#4
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,189	I think the older Navy Arms were made by Armi San Paolo now Euroarms. VTI might have a cylinder that will fit. You should be able to find the makers mark and date code on it. This site might help you. http://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/PD...Proofmarks.pdf

September 8, 2008, 07:48 AM	#5
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	It may be that some early Navy Arms guns were Armi San Paolo; however, I have an 1977 1851 Navy from Navy Arms that was made by Pietta, so there is at least some uncertainty there. Euroarms/Armi San Paolo parts are hard to find. VTI does not list them separately, so finding a cylinder that will work is unfortunately a crap shoot. If you can determine that the gun was made by Pietta (look for the letters FAP inside a diamond shape on the underside of the barrel or the frame in front of the trigger guard), VTI does carry those cylinders. However, the age of the gun may make that just as big a crap shoot. However, it is possible to buy longer nipples. Track of the Wolf sells more than one length in most thread sizes. My Navy Arms/Pietta uses M6X0.75 thread nipples that are .520 overall length. The Treso part number is 11-50-10. Treso also makes an M6X0.75 thread nipple that is .603 overall length, part number 11-50-03. That difference may be enough to solve the problem. You may also be able to put a washer under the nipple to bush it out enough to work. The Track of the Wolf catalog ID for the 11-50-03 nipple is RLP-A; it's the one that fits the Lyman Great Plains Rifle.

September 8, 2008, 12:40 PM	#8
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	I`ve had some stuck so bad on used guns I`ve bought ..I had to soak for 2 weeks in break free ..2 nipple wrenches latter I was able to get them all out ...another one I had same way ...after the 2 week soaking I only was able to get 3 out ...The other 3 looked good enough to use ..so I took the gun out and shot it ...after warming it up from the shooting ...I tried a nipple wrench on the stuck nipples at the range and they came loose , from the heat and vibrations of me shooting it . If you want a replacement cylinder ..we just need to figure out if your gun is San Polo/ EuroArms made or Pietta or Uberti ...VTI doesn`t stock alot of parts for the Euro pistol ...but there is a company called S&S firearms that does ..If your pistol is made by Pietta ..you can get a cylinder at Cabelas .

September 8, 2008, 05:02 PM	#9
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	S&S lists the Euroarms .44 Remington cylinder with nipples as part number RM14 for $79 on page 33 of their 2008 catalog. Their number is 718-497-1100. However, I think it's unlikely the gun is Euroarms/ASP, so I'd hold off on ordering one until I knew for sure. Frankly, since the cylinder from your Pietta Remington fits except for the nipples being short, I'd order a Pietta cylinder and the longer Treso nipples.

September 8, 2008, 07:54 PM	#10
sundance44s Senior Member Join Date: February 6, 2006 Location: Hernando , Ms. Posts: 579	You should be able to figure out who made the pistol by reading here ..it will show you what marks to look for and where to look ...https://store.bluebookinc.com/Info/P...Proofmarks.pdf

September 8, 2008, 08:02 PM	#11
ren219 Member Join Date: December 1, 2005 Location: northern utah Posts: 35	Thanks all for your time and very helpful information. This is exactly what I was looking for. I can always count on good forum members. As you can see by my join date and number of posts, I'm a pretty good lurker! I guess I just don't have much to say. There is almost always and answer somewhere. I think I will try the longer nipples, if that doesn't work, then it will become a mantle piece. My brothers and I all own several black powder firearms so it's not too big of a deal if it doesn't work, however, I do have a hard time owning any firearm that does not function! Thanks again and I will keep you updated. BTW, It looks like it is a Euroarms or Armi San Paolo, found a DGG stamped on the frame under the grips.

September 9, 2008, 06:42 AM	#12
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Good - since it's Euroarms you now have 4 options: 1) longer nipples 2) washers under the nipples 3) new cylinder & nipples from S&S 4) wall hangar But 4 is really a last resort; one of the first 3 is bound to work.