Covert Defensive Tools

Spectre · October 30, 1998, 11:24 PM

I relish tools that are as low-key as possible. That would be a reason, for instance, that I carry a folder daily instead of a fb. (There are legal issues as well, but legality aside, the folder is less likely to attract unwelcome attention.) There are obvious combat-effective tools such as Cross pens and metal mini-flashlights, but I am always eager to find new ideas for things that may serve to pull my bacon out of the fire, should I fall in.

Most especially, I am interested in things that can be regularly carried on my person, and that arguably serve other purposes. A well-made necktie has applications, and I am sure it is only a matter of time until Kevlar or Spectralight

versions are available. I have seen a variety of necklaces and chains that appeared sturdy enough for hard use, and I know ornamental and functional jewelry of this type would be easy to have custom-made. Other suggestions?

Rob Pincus · October 31, 1998, 01:33 AM

You can grow your hair out and wear it Geisha style, with spikes in it.

Shoes with wooden soles, if you can stand clacking when you walk, offer advantages over rubber, should you be the type likely to kick someone in the eye or step on their throat.

I have a belt that lends itself to being used as a weapon rather effectively. Though now that I have sold my harley I fewer opportunities to wear a 2lb metal belt.

**Rich Lucibella** · October 31, 1998, 09:24 AM

Come on, Rob. We can do better than this, though the belt is always an option, unless it's holding up your handgun. It's a good question.

You might consider an 8" or 10" length of paracord on your keychain with a heavy "ornamental" item at the end. Rolled quarters or dimes in the pocket can be a plus, though I'm not sure they're worth the added weight. This bears some thought.
Rich

[This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited 10-31-98).]

fal308 · October 31, 1998, 09:57 AM

keychain itself with short keys sticking up between bunched knuckles of tightened fist. How about a raking or slashing with a pair of folded eyeglasses across the face? Right where the temple piece (don't know what it's called) hinges to the front can be rather sharp as the hinge is metal. Though I'm not sure with the cheap $5.00 sunglasses from convience stores.

Spectre · October 31, 1998, 10:32 AM

Hm. I think I will have to start my own Tactical Jewelry line. I'll call it...uh...Spirit Wear. I'm thinking of two different type medallions. One would be relatively flat, the other heavy and relatively compact. I will have to work out a quick disconnect method, perhaps a low tensile-strength piece of line...These medallions to be in several metals and colors. Take 'em through airports, into courthouses...

Kodiac · November 1, 1998, 12:16 AM

Shortly after I inlisted in the Army, I was given a .22 Magnum Mini-revolver. There was a hole drill through the grip and a ring through that... So, naturally it ended up on my key chain. it served as a key fob for 3 years. During which time I was a medallion level frequent flyer on Delta airlines

. I never had a problem with it - put it in the bowl with my wallet and change and pickt it up after I got passed the detector... I actually forgot about it as a real gun...
Untill a guy I knew got busted for a similar thing, then I was like "Oh, man - that could have been me!" So I put the .22 in the ash tray of my Audi. And carried an EK boot knife instead.

Rob Pincus · November 1, 1998, 12:27 AM

Once I walked up to the security station with me head up my ass and Benchmade auto in my pocket, so I rolled the dice (I knew the blade was legal). I threw it in the bowl and got a sphincter cramp when the $7 an hour about to bust me chick picked it up and took an interest. I went to take it from her saying "it has a lock" and opened it *slowly* with my hand while pushing the "lock" button. she fell for it and I started remebering to throw it in the bottom of the carry on bag from then on....

HS · November 1, 1998, 02:33 AM

About 6 months ago there was a big whoo hah about a device that looked EXACTLY like a keyring car remote control. The difference was that it fired 2rnds of .32 OC gas. Authorities were concerned in AUS about BULLETS being used in them. OUCH,,,,that would HURT ! ps I think they were made in Belgium....HS

Kodiac · November 1, 1998, 07:59 PM

I almost bought a pen that fired .22LR...
But it wasn't H&K... so i passed.

Besides - there was now way attach either a Lazer or Tac-light.

**4V50 Gary** · November 2, 1998, 10:03 AM

The best victories are those not fought.
Don't rely on gimmicks as your mind is your best defense. Reliance on gimmicks can make you too dependent and hapless if deprived of the same.

Heck, carry a sharpened pencil with an eraser. That's innocent enough. With the eraser against the palm, thrust up beneath the chin or through the neck. Having grown up with them, I prefer the yellow color pencils. The lead grade is your choice.

Nestor Rivera · November 3, 1998, 12:24 PM

For you of you who carry a bag/purse/dayplanner there is on great concealable. The Screwdriver by a small handle screwdriver prefreably or 2 (slot/philips) and you now have a wonderfull puncture weapon and as a computer tech a very handy tool set.

Kodiac · November 3, 1998, 02:52 PM

4V50 Gary...
I think we are all in agreement with you - gimicks are just toys, and will not make up for a lack of skill.
Even though I am a student of various martial arts (Kendo, Shoto Kan, Judo, Jujitsu, PPCT, Koga, Kung Fu, and the Forest Gump "Run forest RUN!) I will NOT be with out a weapon of some sort... preferably one of my knives and or guns.
Besides, I am too old to buy my toys at the toy store... I buy them at the range!
My knee is starting to get some strength back and I am looking forward to sparring again against the last guy I was fighting. I can think of a dozen things I SHOULD have done instead of what I did - which led to my injury.
Point? Oh Yeah... My point is that what ever your situation is... you dont have to out fight or out run anything you can out think.

Spectre · November 3, 1998, 05:27 PM

Heck ya, Kodiac. The ultimate covert defensive tool: your mind.

Koga ryu? Talk to me, sometime.

I suppose items such as briefcases with Lexan or Kevlar inserts in them can be used for defense, as well as a shield...and, they're great for carrying the Sub-9 (you've got your PDF on body, right?).

SB · November 19, 1998, 05:26 PM

Late into the game again.

Lately, I'm experimenting with a new toy. I noticed that on my campus (I'm in college), many people are wearing these dog leashes that they put around their neck to carry their keys. Very dumb idea. However, the item itself caught my interest. For anyone familiar with Hojojitsu or anything similar (or if you just want to flail your keys around), this can be quite useful. I mean, considering that at some point in your day you have to manipulate your keys anyways, might as well turn it into a defensive tool. Even better is that it has ZERO intimidation/suspicion level.

Not satisfied with the usual dog leash, however, I took a thin, colorful length of tubular webbing (roughly 5'-6') and tied that to my keys instead. To add weight to the end of your flail, or just to make it easier to grab, you can add a petzel (not pretzel

) oval screwlink. So far, it works pretty good, but it's also slightly cumbersome. I'm not sure how long I'll keep this around, but it's still a fun experiment.

[This message has been edited by SB (edited 11-19-98).]

Spectre · November 19, 1998, 06:33 PM

Good idea, SB. Tuesday night, one of the instructors at BAD mentioned that he used to work at an arcade. There were lots of keys for various machines. At some point, he taped quite a few of them togther, at the end of a chain...

I suppose there's always the outsized (and perhaps, mildy sharpened) key.

Bottom Gun · November 20, 1998, 01:00 PM

I'll bet a glossy color photo of Janet Reno would repel most attackers in short order. 

snoman · November 21, 1998, 12:45 AM

Spectre: I carry a .45, spyderco police, asp keychain that also serves as a kubaton, oc, as well as a key fob, a super leatherman that can be used like a roll of quarters. And a cold steel neck knife. They have not failed me yet!!!

------------------

Harry Humphries · November 22, 1998, 09:36 PM

I have to agree with "Bottom Gun" but if this bit of WMD is not available consider Folder training and get a good folder with liner lock system.

Michael Carlin · December 1, 1998, 09:31 PM

Harry,

Your recommendations for a "folder trainer" currently operating are sought. Please.

yours in marksmanship

michael

Golite · December 2, 1998, 12:32 AM

A picture of Janet Reno wearing a THONG would certainly be considered a weapon. But, it would "shock the conscience of the court" and be viewed as excessive force.

**Rich Lucibella** · December 2, 1998, 09:08 AM

MC-
Go to our links section and click on Harry's site, GSGI. His EW Course description may be found there.
Rich

Gino · December 4, 1998, 03:54 PM

Being a teacher, I sometimes go back to school at odd hours to work (night time and weekends).During home night games and off hours, you never know what (or who's gang) you might run into. (Lots of stuff to steal in a school, and usually pretty poor security.) Since I can't carry while on school grounds, (and could be fired for anything remotely resembling a weapon) I have given much thought to potential weapons. I've got to admit to some pretty far out thoughts (losts of nasty acids and bases in my lab room).4V50 Gary hit on my regular routine, a very sharp pencil behind the ear.

RCH · February 11, 1999, 10:05 PM

A benchmade folder and a Surefire 6p are good constant companions. A can of OC doesn't hurt also. I have one of those nylon/fiberglass knives for flying, but never really thought to much of them. Most cases, when traveling, I fed-ex my benchmade/surefire to my destination!

Also remember, some weapon is better then no weapon!!

Ivanhoe · February 12, 1999, 12:28 AM

possibilities if you carry a briefcase
or bookbag;

nails, picture hanging wire, and a 20oz
framing hammer...

haircutting scissors (you'l' have to work
on your lisp)...

a sports gear bag with a bunhc of quarters
and a softball bat; "I was going to the
batting cage after work..."

a big Crescent wrench to handle that
leaky faucet at work...

a 2-piece cue stick; "I was going to the
pool hall after work..."

an all-metal drafting pencil...

a good-quality photo tripod and camera;
the tripod, when collapsed, might make
a nice HBO (Heavy Blunt Object)...

a heavy stainless steel drafting
straightedge...

cornered rat · February 12, 1999, 09:22 AM

Photo monopod? Candle holder? An FN 90 (looks weird enough no one would know it is a gun)?

October 30, 1998, 11:24 PM	#1
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	I relish tools that are as low-key as possible. That would be a reason, for instance, that I carry a folder daily instead of a fb. (There are legal issues as well, but legality aside, the folder is less likely to attract unwelcome attention.) There are obvious combat-effective tools such as Cross pens and metal mini-flashlights, but I am always eager to find new ideas for things that may serve to pull my bacon out of the fire, should I fall in. Most especially, I am interested in things that can be regularly carried on my person, and that arguably serve other purposes. A well-made necktie has applications, and I am sure it is only a matter of time until Kevlar or Spectralight versions are available. I have seen a variety of necklaces and chains that appeared sturdy enough for hard use, and I know ornamental and functional jewelry of this type would be easy to have custom-made. Other suggestions?

October 31, 1998, 01:33 AM	#2
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	You can grow your hair out and wear it Geisha style, with spikes in it. Shoes with wooden soles, if you can stand clacking when you walk, offer advantages over rubber, should you be the type likely to kick someone in the eye or step on their throat. I have a belt that lends itself to being used as a weapon rather effectively. Though now that I have sold my harley I fewer opportunities to wear a 2lb metal belt.

October 31, 1998, 09:24 AM	#3
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	Come on, Rob. We can do better than this, though the belt is always an option, unless it's holding up your handgun. It's a good question. You might consider an 8" or 10" length of paracord on your keychain with a heavy "ornamental" item at the end. Rolled quarters or dimes in the pocket can be a plus, though I'm not sure they're worth the added weight. This bears some thought. Rich [This message has been edited by Rich Lucibella (edited 10-31-98).]

October 31, 1998, 09:57 AM	#4
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	keychain itself with short keys sticking up between bunched knuckles of tightened fist. How about a raking or slashing with a pair of folded eyeglasses across the face? Right where the temple piece (don't know what it's called) hinges to the front can be rather sharp as the hinge is metal. Though I'm not sure with the cheap $5.00 sunglasses from convience stores.

October 31, 1998, 10:32 AM	#5
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Hm. I think I will have to start my own Tactical Jewelry line. I'll call it...uh...Spirit Wear. I'm thinking of two different type medallions. One would be relatively flat, the other heavy and relatively compact. I will have to work out a quick disconnect method, perhaps a low tensile-strength piece of line...These medallions to be in several metals and colors. Take 'em through airports, into courthouses...

November 1, 1998, 12:16 AM	#6
Kodiac Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Posts: 1,173	Shortly after I inlisted in the Army, I was given a .22 Magnum Mini-revolver. There was a hole drill through the grip and a ring through that... So, naturally it ended up on my key chain. it served as a key fob for 3 years. During which time I was a medallion level frequent flyer on Delta airlines . I never had a problem with it - put it in the bowl with my wallet and change and pickt it up after I got passed the detector... I actually forgot about it as a real gun... Untill a guy I knew got busted for a similar thing, then I was like "Oh, man - that could have been me!" So I put the .22 in the ash tray of my Audi. And carried an EK boot knife instead.

November 1, 1998, 12:27 AM	#7
Rob Pincus Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 1998 Location: Hotels Posts: 3,668	Once I walked up to the security station with me head up my ass and Benchmade auto in my pocket, so I rolled the dice (I knew the blade was legal). I threw it in the bowl and got a sphincter cramp when the $7 an hour about to bust me chick picked it up and took an interest. I went to take it from her saying "it has a lock" and opened it slowly with my hand while pushing the "lock" button. she fell for it and I started remebering to throw it in the bottom of the carry on bag from then on....

November 1, 1998, 02:33 AM	#8
HS Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1998 Location: Brisbane.....Australia Posts: 1,258	About 6 months ago there was a big whoo hah about a device that looked EXACTLY like a keyring car remote control. The difference was that it fired 2rnds of .32 OC gas. Authorities were concerned in AUS about BULLETS being used in them. OUCH,,,,that would HURT ! ps I think they were made in Belgium....HS

November 1, 1998, 07:59 PM	#9
Kodiac Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Posts: 1,173	I almost bought a pen that fired .22LR... But it wasn't H&K... so i passed. Besides - there was now way attach either a Lazer or Tac-light.

November 2, 1998, 10:03 AM	#10
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,848	The best victories are those not fought. Don't rely on gimmicks as your mind is your best defense. Reliance on gimmicks can make you too dependent and hapless if deprived of the same. Heck, carry a sharpened pencil with an eraser. That's innocent enough. With the eraser against the palm, thrust up beneath the chin or through the neck. Having grown up with them, I prefer the yellow color pencils. The lead grade is your choice.

November 3, 1998, 12:24 PM	#11
Nestor Rivera Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 1998 Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA Posts: 446	For you of you who carry a bag/purse/dayplanner there is on great concealable. The Screwdriver by a small handle screwdriver prefreably or 2 (slot/philips) and you now have a wonderfull puncture weapon and as a computer tech a very handy tool set.

November 3, 1998, 02:52 PM	#12
Kodiac Senior Member Join Date: August 16, 1999 Posts: 1,173	4V50 Gary... I think we are all in agreement with you - gimicks are just toys, and will not make up for a lack of skill. Even though I am a student of various martial arts (Kendo, Shoto Kan, Judo, Jujitsu, PPCT, Koga, Kung Fu, and the Forest Gump "Run forest RUN!) I will NOT be with out a weapon of some sort... preferably one of my knives and or guns. Besides, I am too old to buy my toys at the toy store... I buy them at the range! My knee is starting to get some strength back and I am looking forward to sparring again against the last guy I was fighting. I can think of a dozen things I SHOULD have done instead of what I did - which led to my injury. Point? Oh Yeah... My point is that what ever your situation is... you dont have to out fight or out run anything you can out think.

November 3, 1998, 05:27 PM	#13
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Heck ya, Kodiac. The ultimate covert defensive tool: your mind. Koga ryu? Talk to me, sometime. I suppose items such as briefcases with Lexan or Kevlar inserts in them can be used for defense, as well as a shield...and, they're great for carrying the Sub-9 (you've got your PDF on body, right?).

November 19, 1998, 05:26 PM	#14
SB Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 1998 Posts: 415	Late into the game again. Lately, I'm experimenting with a new toy. I noticed that on my campus (I'm in college), many people are wearing these dog leashes that they put around their neck to carry their keys. Very dumb idea. However, the item itself caught my interest. For anyone familiar with Hojojitsu or anything similar (or if you just want to flail your keys around), this can be quite useful. I mean, considering that at some point in your day you have to manipulate your keys anyways, might as well turn it into a defensive tool. Even better is that it has ZERO intimidation/suspicion level. Not satisfied with the usual dog leash, however, I took a thin, colorful length of tubular webbing (roughly 5'-6') and tied that to my keys instead. To add weight to the end of your flail, or just to make it easier to grab, you can add a petzel (not pretzel ) oval screwlink. So far, it works pretty good, but it's also slightly cumbersome. I'm not sure how long I'll keep this around, but it's still a fun experiment. [This message has been edited by SB (edited 11-19-98).]

November 19, 1998, 06:33 PM	#15
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	Good idea, SB. Tuesday night, one of the instructors at BAD mentioned that he used to work at an arcade. There were lots of keys for various machines. At some point, he taped quite a few of them togther, at the end of a chain... I suppose there's always the outsized (and perhaps, mildy sharpened) key.

November 20, 1998, 01:00 PM	#16
Bottom Gun Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Arizona Territory Posts: 1,092	I'll bet a glossy color photo of Janet Reno would repel most attackers in short order. 

November 21, 1998, 12:45 AM	#17
snoman Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 1998 Location: Sauk Rapids, Mn, USA Posts: 127	Spectre: I carry a .45, spyderco police, asp keychain that also serves as a kubaton, oc, as well as a key fob, a super leatherman that can be used like a roll of quarters. And a cold steel neck knife. They have not failed me yet!!! ------------------

November 22, 1998, 09:36 PM	#18
Harry Humphries Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Huntington Beach, CA, USA Posts: 59	I have to agree with "Bottom Gun" but if this bit of WMD is not available consider Folder training and get a good folder with liner lock system.

December 1, 1998, 09:31 PM	#19
Michael Carlin Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Fredericksburg, VA USA Posts: 193	Harry, Your recommendations for a "folder trainer" currently operating are sought. Please. yours in marksmanship michael

December 2, 1998, 12:32 AM	#20
Golite Junior Member Join Date: November 25, 1998 Posts: 1	A picture of Janet Reno wearing a THONG would certainly be considered a weapon. But, it would "shock the conscience of the court" and be viewed as excessive force.

December 2, 1998, 09:08 AM	#21
Rich Lucibella Staff Join Date: October 6, 1998 Location: South Florida Posts: 10,229	MC- Go to our links section and click on Harry's site, GSGI. His EW Course description may be found there. Rich

December 4, 1998, 03:54 PM	#22
Gino Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1998 Location: Lake City, FL USA Posts: 919	Being a teacher, I sometimes go back to school at odd hours to work (night time and weekends).During home night games and off hours, you never know what (or who's gang) you might run into. (Lots of stuff to steal in a school, and usually pretty poor security.) Since I can't carry while on school grounds, (and could be fired for anything remotely resembling a weapon) I have given much thought to potential weapons. I've got to admit to some pretty far out thoughts (losts of nasty acids and bases in my lab room).4V50 Gary hit on my regular routine, a very sharp pencil behind the ear.

February 11, 1999, 10:05 PM	#23
RCH Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 1999 Posts: 103	A benchmade folder and a Surefire 6p are good constant companions. A can of OC doesn't hurt also. I have one of those nylon/fiberglass knives for flying, but never really thought to much of them. Most cases, when traveling, I fed-ex my benchmade/surefire to my destination! Also remember, some weapon is better then no weapon!!

February 12, 1999, 12:28 AM	#24
Ivanhoe Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 1998 Location: Virginia Posts: 412	possibilities if you carry a briefcase or bookbag; nails, picture hanging wire, and a 20oz framing hammer... haircutting scissors (you'l' have to work on your lisp)... a sports gear bag with a bunhc of quarters and a softball bat; "I was going to the batting cage after work..." a big Crescent wrench to handle that leaky faucet at work... a 2-piece cue stick; "I was going to the pool hall after work..." an all-metal drafting pencil... a good-quality photo tripod and camera; the tripod, when collapsed, might make a nice HBO (Heavy Blunt Object)... a heavy stainless steel drafting straightedge...

February 12, 1999, 09:22 AM	#25
cornered rat Junior member Join Date: November 30, 1998 Location: Minnesota Posts: 920	Photo monopod? Candle holder? An FN 90 (looks weird enough no one would know it is a gun)?