Range report: .45LC BP loads - help needed - Page 2

ClemBert · May 21, 2009, 08:04 PM

I'm planning on reloading with .452 Caliber 250 Grain RNFP Bullets. You will note that these bullets actually have a "hard" lubricant instead of a soft lube like SPG. I hope these bullets with this lube are suitable. I asked the owner of the company, Matt Dardas, the question of suitability of his hard lube in .45 Colt reloads AND using black powder. His reply:

I can tell you that customers have purchased the 250’s to use in blackpowder and have reported great results. I have shot our 45-70’s with blackpowder (with our Dardas Blue Lube) and the fowling was soft and just like ‘normal’ generic blackpowder lubes. - Matt Dardas

I have read in a couple of place that with long handgun barrels or regular length rifle barrel that hard lube may be a problem. These same references seem to indicate that with short barrels (under 10" for example) there isn't an issue with hard lube regarding fowling or accuracy. It would appear that Mr. Dardas' statement could be consistent with what I've read. Any opinions would be appreciated.

I do have questions with regard to using a "card" under the bullet. What is a "card", where do you get them, and why is it important to use a card with the bullets I plan on using?

olyinaz · May 21, 2009, 08:09 PM

W.C.,

Thanks much. I may be using the wrong bullets and I didn't use a wad or a card either so I've got several items to attend to.

Thanks again,
Oly

SamStafford · May 21, 2009, 08:30 PM

Well, if I use 777 ffg in my .45LC brass, how many grains of powder do I use? I mean, what should I start at? BTW, I'm going to use lead round balls in the .45LC brass.

long rider · May 21, 2009, 08:51 PM

I have loaded a lot of 45s for my remmi conversion,
but real bp, with 454 rb, make sure you have a good
crimp on the case, you want the ball just to pass half
way, and make sure you do not have AIR SPACE in the
case, t7 cap and ball 3f cases 2f, shoot safe.

ClemBert · May 21, 2009, 09:50 PM

Is this what you reloaders are using? Walters Wads

Why is it important to use a wad inside the cartridge case?

Smokin_Gun · May 21, 2009, 09:56 PM

I set the bullet down on the powder in a cartridge case...that would be 35gr of BP and a 250gr soft lead boolit w/ my own mix of lube.
In a C&B I use 28gr of fffg BP a lube pill of my own recipe on top of the powder then the ball... .452", .454", or .457" depending on what I'm firin' from.

long rider · May 21, 2009, 10:07 PM

You do not have to use wads, you can use fillers
like corn meal or grits weat, i sometimes use cork
its up to the guy who loads.

ClemBert · May 22, 2009, 11:48 AM

I don't think I'd need filler. I supposed that is what the card wads are for...for filler? I'd just load the .45 Colt brass with the max powder. Because I like lots-o-smoke and boooom.

I just did a quick experiment. Looks like the brass holds about 30 grains of 777, no compression of course. I guess with black powder you want 35 grains of Goex then compress it down to 30 grains by volume? Do those numbers sound about right? Oddly, 35 grains of Goex has about the same energy of 30 grains of 777.

It looks like my stinkin' Lyman 49th edition only has smokeless loading recommendations. :barf:

brian45auto · May 22, 2009, 02:25 PM

no, fillers are cheating.
bp needs loaded to the base of the bullet. that means X many gr of bp. you have no control over how hot the load is.
you mix fillers in with the bp to take up room and use less powder, to make a softer load.

the card acts as a tiny filler, but also to protect the base of the bullet, kind a like a shot gun wad cushions the shock to the pellets.
they are often just milk cartoons cut to size or even from the plastic lids found on coffee cans.
not really needed in pistols, they play more a part in long range bp rifle shooting.

long rider · May 22, 2009, 03:08 PM

NO, FILLERS ARE CHEATING?
who says? tell that to the countless guys who use
filler, to shoot at a target dont need to waste my
real black 25 grns gets there like 30 grns so why waste
and i have used corn meal for years with good results,
i load for fun not to save my life, i got that side taken
care of.

Smokin_Gun · May 22, 2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

It looks like my stinkin' Lyman 49th edition only has smokeless loading recommendations

Clembert look in the Muzzleloading Section at the Yellow tab for BP Rev loads... it has a few.

Carding in Cartridges is to seperate the BP & the filler one thing you don't want is cereal mixed in with your Black Powder.(lack of consistancy)
I don't use fillers in a C&B Cylinder chamber and shoot 28gr of fffg BP in my .44's with deadly accuracy.. I do load my lube pills on top of the powder and the ball or boolit pressed down atop the lube pill. Can shoot all day no binding easy cleanin' afterwords.

May 21, 2009, 08:04 PM	#26
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	I'm planning on reloading with .452 Caliber 250 Grain RNFP Bullets. You will note that these bullets actually have a "hard" lubricant instead of a soft lube like SPG. I hope these bullets with this lube are suitable. I asked the owner of the company, Matt Dardas, the question of suitability of his hard lube in .45 Colt reloads AND using black powder. His reply: I can tell you that customers have purchased the 250’s to use in blackpowder and have reported great results. I have shot our 45-70’s with blackpowder (with our Dardas Blue Lube) and the fowling was soft and just like ‘normal’ generic blackpowder lubes. - Matt Dardas I have read in a couple of place that with long handgun barrels or regular length rifle barrel that hard lube may be a problem. These same references seem to indicate that with short barrels (under 10" for example) there isn't an issue with hard lube regarding fowling or accuracy. It would appear that Mr. Dardas' statement could be consistent with what I've read. Any opinions would be appreciated. I do have questions with regard to using a "card" under the bullet. What is a "card", where do you get them, and why is it important to use a card with the bullets I plan on using? Last edited by ClemBert; May 21, 2009 at 09:01 PM.

May 21, 2009, 08:51 PM	#29
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	I have loaded a lot of 45s for my remmi conversion, but real bp, with 454 rb, make sure you have a good crimp on the case, you want the ball just to pass half way, and make sure you do not have AIR SPACE in the case, t7 cap and ball 3f cases 2f, shoot safe. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

May 21, 2009, 09:56 PM	#31
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I set the bullet down on the powder in a cartridge case...that would be 35gr of BP and a 250gr soft lead boolit w/ my own mix of lube. In a C&B I use 28gr of fffg BP a lube pill of my own recipe on top of the powder then the ball... .452", .454", or .457" depending on what I'm firin' from. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

May 21, 2009, 10:07 PM	#32
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	You do not have to use wads, you can use fillers like corn meal or grits weat, i sometimes use cork its up to the guy who loads. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.

May 22, 2009, 02:25 PM	#34
brian45auto Senior Member Join Date: April 19, 2009 Location: eastern pa Posts: 499	no, fillers are cheating. bp needs loaded to the base of the bullet. that means X many gr of bp. you have no control over how hot the load is. you mix fillers in with the bp to take up room and use less powder, to make a softer load. the card acts as a tiny filler, but also to protect the base of the bullet, kind a like a shot gun wad cushions the shock to the pellets. they are often just milk cartoons cut to size or even from the plastic lids found on coffee cans. not really needed in pistols, they play more a part in long range bp rifle shooting. __________________ it's only metal, we can out think it.....

May 21, 2009, 08:09 PM	#27
olyinaz Senior Member Join Date: February 24, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 877	W.C., Thanks much. I may be using the wrong bullets and I didn't use a wad or a card either so I've got several items to attend to. Thanks again, Oly

May 21, 2009, 08:30 PM	#28
SamStafford Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Portageville, MO. 63873 Posts: 162	Well, if I use 777 ffg in my .45LC brass, how many grains of powder do I use? I mean, what should I start at? BTW, I'm going to use lead round balls in the .45LC brass.

May 21, 2009, 09:50 PM	#30
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	Is this what you reloaders are using? Walters Wads Why is it important to use a wad inside the cartridge case?

May 22, 2009, 11:48 AM	#33
ClemBert Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2009 Location: Orlando Posts: 936	I don't think I'd need filler. I supposed that is what the card wads are for...for filler? I'd just load the .45 Colt brass with the max powder. Because I like lots-o-smoke and boooom. I just did a quick experiment. Looks like the brass holds about 30 grains of 777, no compression of course. I guess with black powder you want 35 grains of Goex then compress it down to 30 grains by volume? Do those numbers sound about right? Oddly, 35 grains of Goex has about the same energy of 30 grains of 777. It looks like my stinkin' Lyman 49th edition only has smokeless loading recommendations. :barf:

May 22, 2009, 03:08 PM	#35
long rider Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2008 Posts: 669	NO, FILLERS ARE CHEATING? who says? tell that to the countless guys who use filler, to shoot at a target dont need to waste my real black 25 grns gets there like 30 grns so why waste and i have used corn meal for years with good results, i load for fun not to save my life, i got that side taken care of. __________________ Sod Buster Tried To Pull On Willson.