Reloads using less expensive bullets

Derf00 · September 3, 2006, 05:27 PM

I recently picked up some bullets that are considerabley less expensive than the Sierra 240G SJHP I use for my .44 mag. I purchased some Berry's 240G plated hollow points, and some MagTech 240g SJFP, both intended for general plinking.

My normal reload consists of Remington or Winchester brass, CCI 350 Magnum Primers, 23.4g of H110 and a Sierra .240g SJHP shot from my Redhaw or M29.

Does anybody see any problems with same load using the Berry's or MagTech bullets?

Thirties · September 3, 2006, 06:04 PM

The Berry's bullets are probably plated, not jacketed. You should make sure one way or the other. If you treat them like jacketed in your loading formula, and don't go near the highest charges, then you should be all right.

If they are plated, make sure you do not treat them as if they are lead bullets. Plated bullets need more charge than lead. you can actually get a plated bullet stck in the barrel if you use lead data.

Lycanthrope · September 3, 2006, 07:15 PM

Plated bullets need just a bit more powder than lead and more powder than jacketed in my guns.

Don't get too deep with the crimp or they can tumble.

Jammer Six · September 3, 2006, 07:45 PM

I use Barry's almost exclusively.

I just had my first target with tumbling, the evidence is all the holes have a rip off to right.

I've been told that this is also evidence of too light a load, and it IS the lightest load I've ever loaded.

Tell me more about the crimp, please.

Loading on a SDB, and I haven't touched the crimp. This is the only target with this evidence.

Lycanthrope · September 3, 2006, 09:08 PM

I've had no problem with light loads. I shoot 200gr .40 caliber bullets over 3 gr of Titegroup and these BARELY make minor power factor (the girlfriend loves to shoot them).

The plating on Berry's and Rainiers (I use Rainiers more so) is VERY thin. Crimp into it and it will separate/cause instability.

Use a neutral crimp....don't crimp into the bullet at all. That is.....the bullet diameter and then the thickness of the brass x2. For .40 caliber that comes ito a crimp of no more than .422.

Tree Rat · September 3, 2006, 11:16 PM

I don't what to think of that target............youv'e got perfect concentric holes for 3/4's of the bullet diameter with a curious tear in that last quarter.

A true tumbler would never leave a concentric diameter hole to any degree like that pictured in your target.

It looks as if the bullets punched their holes true, and half way through the target just fell over to the side.....

TR

Jammer Six · September 4, 2006, 12:25 AM

Thanks, Lycanthrope.

I like Titegroup. Don't have much experience, but I've tried four powders- Titegroup, Bullseye, 231 and Unique.

Of those, I've had by far the best luck with Titegroup.

In a .45, I've only loaded it down to 4.5, with a 200 Barry's SWC. That is, in fact, my favorite load so far.

I just ran some tests today, starting with 3.6 grains of Bullseye under 230 grain Precision Bullet RNF.

The 3.6 grains all squibbed- had to drive the bullet back out of the barrel on all four of the rounds I "fired".

Much to my surprise, the next step up, 3.8 grains, functioned fine. Two tenths of a grain difference, and it goes from "pop" to dead reliable. Go figure.

I'm about to start testing on Barry's 185 g. SWC, because I've had such good luck with the 200s.

Anyway, it was a light Titegroup load that produced this target, under a Barry's 200 SWC. The load was 4.3 grains. Mixed brass, Federal 150 primers. It's just .2 grains down from my favorite load.

The just "fell over". That cracked me up...

Lycanthrope · September 4, 2006, 11:15 AM

With a case size as deep as the .44, those are going to be REALLY light.

For me, the holes don't look like tumbling. They look like plating is peeling off because you can see how the bullet enters nose first. I've never seen something like that.

Derf00 · September 4, 2006, 11:21 AM

Lycanthrope,

Thus far, your explaination is the only one that makes any sense to me.

stinger · September 4, 2006, 11:53 AM

I agree that the bullets are not tumbling.

Tumbling bullets will leave tears, but not with perfectly concentric holes as well.

Something else is definitely going on there.

Quote:

The 3.6 grains all squibbed- had to drive the bullet back out of the barrel on all four of the rounds I "fired".

Are you sure there was powder in the case? If using a powder measure with very low weights, they sometimes miss dropping a charge. I would think that with that much powder (I know it wasn't much) the bullets would have at least left the barrel.

Lycanthrope · September 4, 2006, 01:06 PM

Revolver shooters usually crimp relatively deep....particularly on the magnum loads. If you don't the bullets can work forward in recoil and lock up the cylinder. My bet is the crimp is shaving the plate and causing it to separate.

3.6 could squib in that large of a case, I bet. I'm shooting 2gr out of a .40 SW case with a 200gr bullet and that means there is very little room for powder left.....upping the pressure over the same load in a .44 mag case.

Dave R · September 4, 2006, 02:24 PM

What's going on there is a function of the paper, not the bullet. The paper is just tearing as the bullet goes through. I see it with my airgun, and targets I print on my printer, all the time.

Put some cardboard behind that paper, and I'll bet the tearing stops.

Derf00 · September 4, 2006, 04:00 PM

I suppose anything is possible, but I couldn't begin to count the # of paper targets of all types I have shot, with and without backing, and I have never seen anything like that.

Lycanthrope · September 4, 2006, 04:09 PM

True, it could be tearing because the projectile is slllloooowwww.

BigJakeJ1s · September 4, 2006, 04:59 PM

Slow bullets and/or strange paper. All the tears are in the same direction: grain of the paper? Was the target wet, or had it gotten wet prior to shooting?

Andy

Jammer Six · September 4, 2006, 08:24 PM

No, the target wasn't and hadn't been wet.

This is the only target in tens of thousands of rounds at identical targets under the same conditions at the same range with the tears.

As soon as I switched loads, the tears stopped.

I think the bullet is behaving differently than the other loads, but I don't know why- it looks to me like it could be either Lycanthrope's crimp theory or the load being so slow and so light.

Crosshair · September 4, 2006, 08:46 PM

I use Laser Cast bullets in several of my guns. They are less expencive than jacketed and I have yet to have leading problem with them, even in full 357 magnum loads. (I use LC bullets in .357 Mag, 38 S&W, 45 Colt (Ruger Only), and 45 Auto.) I have thought about using Shooters Choice bullets that Scheels has, but have not gotten any yet.

Ifishsum · September 4, 2006, 08:55 PM

I also think it's the paper. I see this often with home printed targets and light pistol loads.

Dave R · September 5, 2006, 06:49 PM

Quote:

All the tears are in the same direction: grain of the paper?

Yup. Papers have grains, depending on how they were produced. Even if you've been using the same targets at the same range, that doesn't mean the printer always uses the same batch of paper for the targets the range is ordering.

You switched loads and the tearing stopped? I think Lycanthrope's theory on speed is what's in play.

Anyway, you're not tumbling, or the holes would be shaped much different.

T. O'Heir · September 6, 2006, 01:09 AM

Load for the bullet weight. However, plated bullets should be treated like cast bullets, not jacketed.
Tears in a paper target with no other indication of keyholing is about the quality of the paper. Not the bullet or load.

September 3, 2006, 05:27 PM	#1
Derf00 Member Join Date: August 25, 2004 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 33	Reloads using less expensive bullets I recently picked up some bullets that are considerabley less expensive than the Sierra 240G SJHP I use for my .44 mag. I purchased some Berry's 240G plated hollow points, and some MagTech 240g SJFP, both intended for general plinking. My normal reload consists of Remington or Winchester brass, CCI 350 Magnum Primers, 23.4g of H110 and a Sierra .240g SJHP shot from my Redhaw or M29. Does anybody see any problems with same load using the Berry's or MagTech bullets?

September 3, 2006, 07:45 PM	#4
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	I use Barry's almost exclusively. I just had my first target with tumbling, the evidence is all the holes have a rip off to right. I've been told that this is also evidence of too light a load, and it IS the lightest load I've ever loaded. Tell me more about the crimp, please. Loading on a SDB, and I haven't touched the crimp. This is the only target with this evidence. __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998 Last edited by Jammer Six; September 3, 2006 at 08:10 PM. Reason: add picture of target

September 4, 2006, 12:25 AM	#7
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	Thanks, Lycanthrope. I like Titegroup. Don't have much experience, but I've tried four powders- Titegroup, Bullseye, 231 and Unique. Of those, I've had by far the best luck with Titegroup. In a .45, I've only loaded it down to 4.5, with a 200 Barry's SWC. That is, in fact, my favorite load so far. I just ran some tests today, starting with 3.6 grains of Bullseye under 230 grain Precision Bullet RNF. The 3.6 grains all squibbed- had to drive the bullet back out of the barrel on all four of the rounds I "fired". Much to my surprise, the next step up, 3.8 grains, functioned fine. Two tenths of a grain difference, and it goes from "pop" to dead reliable. Go figure. I'm about to start testing on Barry's 185 g. SWC, because I've had such good luck with the 200s. Anyway, it was a light Titegroup load that produced this target, under a Barry's 200 SWC. The load was 4.3 grains. Mixed brass, Federal 150 primers. It's just .2 grains down from my favorite load. The just "fell over". That cracked me up... __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

September 4, 2006, 02:24 PM	#12
Dave R Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2000 Location: Idaho Posts: 6,073	What's going on there is a function of the paper, not the bullet. The paper is just tearing as the bullet goes through. I see it with my airgun, and targets I print on my printer, all the time. Put some cardboard behind that paper, and I'll bet the tearing stops. __________________ I am Pro-Rights (on gun issues).

September 4, 2006, 08:24 PM	#16
Jammer Six Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Seattle Posts: 827	No, the target wasn't and hadn't been wet. This is the only target in tens of thousands of rounds at identical targets under the same conditions at the same range with the tears. As soon as I switched loads, the tears stopped. I think the bullet is behaving differently than the other loads, but I don't know why- it looks to me like it could be either Lycanthrope's crimp theory or the load being so slow and so light. __________________ "Huh?" --Jammer Six, 1998

September 3, 2006, 06:04 PM	#2
Thirties Senior Member Join Date: April 29, 2001 Location: Where the Red Sox meet the Black Bears Posts: 561	The Berry's bullets are probably plated, not jacketed. You should make sure one way or the other. If you treat them like jacketed in your loading formula, and don't go near the highest charges, then you should be all right. If they are plated, make sure you do not treat them as if they are lead bullets. Plated bullets need more charge than lead. you can actually get a plated bullet stck in the barrel if you use lead data.

September 3, 2006, 07:15 PM	#3
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	Plated bullets need just a bit more powder than lead and more powder than jacketed in my guns. Don't get too deep with the crimp or they can tumble.

September 3, 2006, 09:08 PM	#5
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	I've had no problem with light loads. I shoot 200gr .40 caliber bullets over 3 gr of Titegroup and these BARELY make minor power factor (the girlfriend loves to shoot them). The plating on Berry's and Rainiers (I use Rainiers more so) is VERY thin. Crimp into it and it will separate/cause instability. Use a neutral crimp....don't crimp into the bullet at all. That is.....the bullet diameter and then the thickness of the brass x2. For .40 caliber that comes ito a crimp of no more than .422.

September 3, 2006, 11:16 PM	#6
Tree Rat Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2000 Posts: 138	I don't what to think of that target............youv'e got perfect concentric holes for 3/4's of the bullet diameter with a curious tear in that last quarter. A true tumbler would never leave a concentric diameter hole to any degree like that pictured in your target. It looks as if the bullets punched their holes true, and half way through the target just fell over to the side..... TR

September 4, 2006, 11:15 AM	#8
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	With a case size as deep as the .44, those are going to be REALLY light. For me, the holes don't look like tumbling. They look like plating is peeling off because you can see how the bullet enters nose first. I've never seen something like that.

September 4, 2006, 11:21 AM	#9
Derf00 Member Join Date: August 25, 2004 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 33	Lycanthrope, Thus far, your explaination is the only one that makes any sense to me.

September 4, 2006, 01:06 PM	#11
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	Revolver shooters usually crimp relatively deep....particularly on the magnum loads. If you don't the bullets can work forward in recoil and lock up the cylinder. My bet is the crimp is shaving the plate and causing it to separate. 3.6 could squib in that large of a case, I bet. I'm shooting 2gr out of a .40 SW case with a 200gr bullet and that means there is very little room for powder left.....upping the pressure over the same load in a .44 mag case.

September 4, 2006, 04:00 PM	#13
Derf00 Member Join Date: August 25, 2004 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 33	I suppose anything is possible, but I couldn't begin to count the # of paper targets of all types I have shot, with and without backing, and I have never seen anything like that.

September 4, 2006, 04:09 PM	#14
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	True, it could be tearing because the projectile is slllloooowwww.

September 4, 2006, 04:59 PM	#15
BigJakeJ1s Senior Member Join Date: August 8, 2005 Location: Arlington TX Posts: 663	Slow bullets and/or strange paper. All the tears are in the same direction: grain of the paper? Was the target wet, or had it gotten wet prior to shooting? Andy

September 4, 2006, 08:46 PM	#17
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	I use Laser Cast bullets in several of my guns. They are less expencive than jacketed and I have yet to have leading problem with them, even in full 357 magnum loads. (I use LC bullets in .357 Mag, 38 S&W, 45 Colt (Ruger Only), and 45 Auto.) I have thought about using Shooters Choice bullets that Scheels has, but have not gotten any yet. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

September 4, 2006, 08:55 PM	#18
Ifishsum Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,033	I also think it's the paper. I see this often with home printed targets and light pistol loads.

September 6, 2006, 01:09 AM	#20
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Load for the bullet weight. However, plated bullets should be treated like cast bullets, not jacketed. Tears in a paper target with no other indication of keyholing is about the quality of the paper. Not the bullet or load.