REMINGTON 700

william45 · April 12, 1999, 09:15 PM

I KNOW SOMEONE WITH AN EARLY 25-06 700 THAT WHEN HE FIRES FACTORY AMMO IN IT HE HAS NO PROBLEMS,BUT WHEN HE FIRES RELOADS ASHE TURNS THE BOLT IS STIFF AND SHAVES METAL OFF THE CARTRIDGE HEAD AS HE TURNS THE BOLT.HAS TRIED DIFFERENT DIES BUT ALWAYS THE THE SAME. ANYBODY WITH SAME PROBLEM OR CAN HELP.I THINK THE CHAMBER IS TIGHT IS THERE A CHEAP FIX? GUN SHOOTS FINE BUT HAS THAT PROBLEM.

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SIXGUN

Daniel Watters · April 12, 1999, 10:09 PM

Well, if it works fine with factory loads and chokes on reloads, I'd look at changing the reloads before I started to mess with the rifle.

Each rifle is an individual, with some more so than others. Just because a specific reload works fine with one fellow's rifle does not indicate that it will be safe with any other rifle of the same caliber.

**Mal H** · April 12, 1999, 10:42 PM

Sixgun - You have described THE classic sign of excessive pressure. The brass flows into the ejector hole and when the bolt is turned this shaves the brass at that point. If the round was difficult to get INTO the chamber then you should suspect the die, but I would guess the reload is just too heavy. Do you know what the powder/bullet combo is?

(BTW - I think your caps lock key is broken.

It looks like you're yelling at us when you use all caps.)

George Stringer · April 13, 1999, 08:58 AM

Sixgun, I agree with the other guys. The rounds are obviously a "tad" hot for the rifle. Tell your friend to back off to the starting load recommended in his reloading manual and begin working the load up again. George

**Mal H** · April 13, 1999, 12:32 PM

Man, this is uncanny! I just received the May issue of Shooting Times and I always turn to Rick Jamison's column first. He has a picture of a shell with exactly the same problem as Sixgun described. And of all the calibers available, guess which one he shows ... a 25-06!

william45 · April 13, 1999, 04:52 PM

I want thank all you for your help but there is a couple of things I should of put in the first time. It shaves metal off after the shell is chambered and you start closing the bolt not after you fire the gun.And he is sure bass is not over sized,he loads under max.loads.I'm sorry I didn't include this with the the first note.The case lengh is checked and trimed and uses factory 25-06 cases.the place where it shaves metal off is the brass rim.

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SIXGUN

[This message has been edited by william45 (edited April 13, 1999).]

**Mal H** · April 13, 1999, 07:22 PM

Well, that little tidbit does change things. Since lot's of 25-06 reloaders fire form 30-06 or 270 Win brass, is he doing this or is he using factory 25-06 brass (any factory)? The case length may be too long and the neck is jamming into the throat. If you coat the neck and shoulder with a magic marker, chamber the round, and remove it, you can see if it is jamming somewhere.

James K · April 13, 1999, 09:06 PM

Another possibility if using .30-'06 cases, is neck thickness. Sizing .30 down to .270 can leave the neck too thick, so loading a .270 bullet makes neck too thick for chamber. It sounds like that rifle has a minimum chamber. In some ways that is good, but there is not a lot of room for anything slightly oversize.

James K · April 14, 1999, 11:06 AM

I had an off-line question about why neck thickness is important. Reason is that the neck must be able to expand enough to allow the bullet to float free as it begins to move. As the pressure builds, the gas first moves into the point where the bullet fits into the neck of the case and expands the neck, then begins pushing the bullet. If the neck can't expand for whatever reason, the pressure builds up beyond normal limits and the result looks like an overloaded cartridge.

At one time, shooters greased the bullet and case necks, thinking this would create less friction; the result was high pressure because the grease on the case necks wouldn't allow proper expansion. The same thing will happen if the neck brass is too thick.

All rifle chambers are cut with reamers. A given caliber has +/- dimensions. When a new reamer is used, the chamber is maximum. As the reamer is used, it is sharpened and made smaller. When it reaches minimum, it is disgarded and a new reamer is used. The same is true of reamers used to make the dies that make cartridge cases. Manufacturers of arms and ammunition keep the specs within bounds so a factory round will always fit a factory rifle, but with reloads (remember the reamer that makes the reloading die?) yet another factor is thrown into the pot. If cases are made from other cases, we have another element and more room for problems.

[This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited April 14, 1999).]

April 12, 1999, 09:15 PM	#1
william45 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Location: MILACA,MN USA Posts: 5	I KNOW SOMEONE WITH AN EARLY 25-06 700 THAT WHEN HE FIRES FACTORY AMMO IN IT HE HAS NO PROBLEMS,BUT WHEN HE FIRES RELOADS ASHE TURNS THE BOLT IS STIFF AND SHAVES METAL OFF THE CARTRIDGE HEAD AS HE TURNS THE BOLT.HAS TRIED DIFFERENT DIES BUT ALWAYS THE THE SAME. ANYBODY WITH SAME PROBLEM OR CAN HELP.I THINK THE CHAMBER IS TIGHT IS THERE A CHEAP FIX? GUN SHOOTS FINE BUT HAS THAT PROBLEM. ------------------ SIXGUN

April 12, 1999, 10:09 PM	#2
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	Well, if it works fine with factory loads and chokes on reloads, I'd look at changing the reloads before I started to mess with the rifle. Each rifle is an individual, with some more so than others. Just because a specific reload works fine with one fellow's rifle does not indicate that it will be safe with any other rifle of the same caliber.

April 12, 1999, 10:42 PM	#3
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,950	Sixgun - You have described THE classic sign of excessive pressure. The brass flows into the ejector hole and when the bolt is turned this shaves the brass at that point. If the round was difficult to get INTO the chamber then you should suspect the die, but I would guess the reload is just too heavy. Do you know what the powder/bullet combo is? (BTW - I think your caps lock key is broken. It looks like you're yelling at us when you use all caps.)

April 13, 1999, 08:58 AM	#4
George Stringer Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Earlington KY Posts: 2,299	Sixgun, I agree with the other guys. The rounds are obviously a "tad" hot for the rifle. Tell your friend to back off to the starting load recommended in his reloading manual and begin working the load up again. George

April 13, 1999, 12:32 PM	#5
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,950	Man, this is uncanny! I just received the May issue of Shooting Times and I always turn to Rick Jamison's column first. He has a picture of a shell with exactly the same problem as Sixgun described. And of all the calibers available, guess which one he shows ... a 25-06!

April 13, 1999, 04:52 PM	#6
william45 Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 1999 Location: MILACA,MN USA Posts: 5	I want thank all you for your help but there is a couple of things I should of put in the first time. It shaves metal off after the shell is chambered and you start closing the bolt not after you fire the gun.And he is sure bass is not over sized,he loads under max.loads.I'm sorry I didn't include this with the the first note.The case lengh is checked and trimed and uses factory 25-06 cases.the place where it shaves metal off is the brass rim. ------------------ SIXGUN [This message has been edited by william45 (edited April 13, 1999).]

April 13, 1999, 07:22 PM	#7
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,950	Well, that little tidbit does change things. Since lot's of 25-06 reloaders fire form 30-06 or 270 Win brass, is he doing this or is he using factory 25-06 brass (any factory)? The case length may be too long and the neck is jamming into the throat. If you coat the neck and shoulder with a magic marker, chamber the round, and remove it, you can see if it is jamming somewhere.

April 13, 1999, 09:06 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Another possibility if using .30-'06 cases, is neck thickness. Sizing .30 down to .270 can leave the neck too thick, so loading a .270 bullet makes neck too thick for chamber. It sounds like that rifle has a minimum chamber. In some ways that is good, but there is not a lot of room for anything slightly oversize.

April 14, 1999, 11:06 AM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I had an off-line question about why neck thickness is important. Reason is that the neck must be able to expand enough to allow the bullet to float free as it begins to move. As the pressure builds, the gas first moves into the point where the bullet fits into the neck of the case and expands the neck, then begins pushing the bullet. If the neck can't expand for whatever reason, the pressure builds up beyond normal limits and the result looks like an overloaded cartridge. At one time, shooters greased the bullet and case necks, thinking this would create less friction; the result was high pressure because the grease on the case necks wouldn't allow proper expansion. The same thing will happen if the neck brass is too thick. All rifle chambers are cut with reamers. A given caliber has +/- dimensions. When a new reamer is used, the chamber is maximum. As the reamer is used, it is sharpened and made smaller. When it reaches minimum, it is disgarded and a new reamer is used. The same is true of reamers used to make the dies that make cartridge cases. Manufacturers of arms and ammunition keep the specs within bounds so a factory round will always fit a factory rifle, but with reloads (remember the reamer that makes the reloading die?) yet another factor is thrown into the pot. If cases are made from other cases, we have another element and more room for problems. [This message has been edited by Jim Keenan (edited April 14, 1999).]