The most iconic all metal 9mm pistols in history...

[Sevens]

4V50 Gary really has a FINE suggestion for one that is truly missing in a list of icon 9mm handguns with the Mauser Broomhandle.

I certainly do believe the S&W Model 39 deserves a spot as an iconic handgun -- this pistol laid the foundation for the sea of change in American police equipment from the double action service revolver to the semi-automatic pistol. In American handguns, it is FAR more than noteworthy. The Model 39-2 saw some 445,000 units produced. Staggering number and says a lot about it's quality and success.

I don't truly know... anything about Radom pistols, so I can't comment on it's inclusion. I would have to genuinely argue about the HK P7M8 being shown here. Absolutely noteworthy and extremely interesting handgun, but it doesn't (IMO) carry the status of the company it's keeping in the photo. It was innovative and there's nothing like it, but that doesn't place it here. Maybe I can't find the right example... but if being radically different gets the P7M8 here, the Boberg XR-9 makes the list? Or whichever 9mm first used a rotating barrel lock-up?

For sure, if sticking with the theme of iconic, the picture has a huge hole without a Glock 17. But I think we can all agree that it would RUIN an awfully nice picture.

Possible inclusion, though I can't find a really decent argument for it:
Norinco 213, 9mm chambered clone of an iconic TT-33 Tokarev. (never a 9mm)

[RX-79G]

Really, if the P7 is oscure, the CZ and Glock are much more so. The P7 and P9S have been national service pistols more times than Glock until very recently. As well as all the police contracts worldwide.

The CZ was a service pistol to a small country and its popularity comes largely from its clones. Its a nice gun for civilians. So is an XD.

I think "iconic" is anything that served a number of nations' militaries or was innovative AND was successful.. The P7 (and P9S) happens to be both.

An iconic gun in many ways is the MAB PA-15. Rotating barrel, first 15 round mag. Totally unsuccessful.

[Pond, James Pond]

For me this all starts with how we interpret "iconic".

Again, for me, that interpretation would be either something that deserves our respect by virtue of its design, success (including historical roles), or position as a pioneer of this now ubiquitous calibre.

As such I would have the Mauser C96, Luger P08 parabellum, Browning HP, G17 and Beretta 92.

A shorter list, but that would be mine....

[RX-79G]

Even though the C96 was not originally 9mm?

[Pond, James Pond]

Even though the C96 was not originally 9mm?

Perhaps not, but I been given the impression that the Mauser played quite a role in making the 9mm a more common, respected and used calibre, certainly in the area of combat and this thread is about guns that are Iconic in 9mm.

This is in the same vein as the same way that the Browning HP launched the super-9 movement to the masses, even though there were others before that had been 9mm and/or had been double stack, as you yourself pointed out with the first 15 rd'er you referred to.

As such I feel it (the C96) qualifies.

Having re-read the OP's comment on metal only, I suppose the G17 would have to go, even though I think its iconic status in popular culture alone is greater than many of the others put together...

[gyvel]

The CZ was a service pistol to a small country and its popularity comes largely from its clones.

Actually, the CZ 75 was exported and used by many countries (mostly Eastern Bloc sympathetic) as a sidearm, and still is. (Probably more so than any HK.)

[gyvel]

An iconic gun in many ways is the MAB PA-15. Rotating barrel, first 15 round mag.

Maybe somewhat "iconic" for its 15 round magazine, but it wasn't THAT great of an advance over the 13 round FN Hi-Power.

It certainly wasn't iconic either for its rotating barrel. That had already been done on several handguns, including the Steyr 1911, the Nickl designed CZ 22 and 24, and the Mexican Obregon.

If anything, its lack of success was from it's bulkiness.

[gyvel]

As such I feel it (the C96) qualifies.

It's iconic in the sense that it was a relatively successful early auto pistol design. However, as a 9mm, which is what this thread is about, it had very little to do with advancing the popularity of that cartridge. By the time of the advent of the "Red 9s," the 9mm had become well established, and the 9mm C96s were just a blip in a conflict of a century ago. In fact, their manufacture as 9mms were an emergency stopgap measure to help ease a shortage of sidearms.

[Walt Sherrill]

Actually, the CZ 75 was exported and used by many countries (mostly Eastern Bloc sympathetic) as a sidearm, and still is. (Probably more so than any HK.)

As best I can tell, the H&K was hardly used outside of West Germany, and then mostly by police. That's probably why there's never been a big flood of surplus H&Ks to hit the U.S. -- except for police guns a few years back.

The 9mm (9x19) round wasn't used by the military in the Communist Bloc countries, so that limited it's military applications. CZs were used in South Africa, and the Israelis used a bunch (along with many other guns, and CZ and BHP "clones.") Israel went on, as did Turkey, to make their own versions -- based on the Tanfoglio pattern, under license.

As best I can tell, the CZ-75 was designed for export, primarily to the West, but the Western embargo of most Communist products kept it from happening. (Among NATO countries Only Canada and West Germany had them readily available for sale during the coldest part of the Cold War.)

CZs, according to CZ, were the "most widely-used" gun around. Possibly true, but it didn't mean exactly what it seemed to mean: it meant, I think, used in a lot of places, but not always in large numbers. "Widely distributed" or "widely sold" might be better ways of describing the reality, with focus on "where" rather than "how many." Its only in the last 10-15 years or so that we have begun to see CZs purchased for use by millitaries around the world -- and the P-09 and P-07 line accounts for some of those guns. CZ-pattern guns were used in Turkey and elsewhere. Lots of state police agencies in Africa and the Middle East ended up with real CZs, as did many smaller police units around the world.

.

[LockedBreech]

Agreed entirely, Walt. I like the CZ-75, but I've always taken CZ's claim of it being "the most widely used military, police and security pistol in the world!" with a pretty heavy grain of salt. It doesn't seem supported by the facts.

[Walt Sherrill]

Really, if the P7 is oscure, the CZ and Glock are much more so. The P7 and P9S have been national service pistols more times than Glock until very recently. As well as all the police contracts worldwide.

If Wikipedia's listing of military and police users is any indication, the P7, P9S, CZ are all inappropriate choices for the original list for their lack of wide usage or a whole-hearted embrace by a large military, or a bunch of military or police units. If unique design features or new approaches are a reason, then those three and the Glock 17 all belong on the list.

P7 Users:

Bangladesh: Special Security Force
Democratic Republic of Congo: P7M13 variant.
Germany: Used by the military police (Feldjäger). Was also used by the Federal Police (Bundespolizei) and several other police departments. The P7 PSP is also in use with the
Bavarian state police.[citation needed]
Greece: P7M8 variant.[ produced under license by Hellenic Arms Industry as the EP7 for the Hellenic Airforce and police services. also made under license by the Hellenic Arms Industry.
Republic of Korea: P7M13 variant. Used by the Korean National Police SWAT.
Luxembourg: P7M13 variant is used by the Unité Spéciale de la Police intervention unit of the Grand Ducal Police.
Mexico: Locally manufactured version with frame-mounted safety lever placed on the right side of the frame as required by the Mexican government, known as the P7M13S, created under license in 1983 by the Departamento de la Industriá Militar (Military Industry Department) by the Direccion General de Fabricas de la Defensa.
Norway: P7M8 variant.
Pakistan: Used by Pakistan Army as well as Special Forces
Saudi Arabia: P7 M13 9mm.[citation needed]
Singapore: P7M8 variant.
United Arab Emirates: P7M13 variant.
United States: Used by several police departments, including the New Jersey State Police (P7M8).
Uruguay: P7M8 variant.

P9S Users

Argentina: Argentine Army (P9S variant).[citation needed]
West Germany: GSG9 and State police of Saarland.
Greece: EP9S variant.
Malaysia: Malaysian Armed Forces and Royal Malaysia Police.
Netherlands: Brigade Speciale Beveiligingsopdrachten.
Paraguay
Portugal: Guarda Nacional Republicana (P9S variant).
Saudi Arabia
Spain: Grupo Especial de Operaciones (P9S variant).
Sudan
United States: U.S. Navy.


CZ-75 Users (not counting the Tanfoglio guns) and not including the early Turkish contract and Israeli military use of true CZs.

Brazil: Used by the Brazilian Armed Forces
Bulgaria: Used by the Ministry of Interior
Czech Republic: Used by the Czech Armed Forces. Also used by Czech police forces.
Egypt: Primary firearm of law enforcement since 2013
Georgia
Israel: Shin Bet
Kazakhstan: 75 pistols CZ-75B and 30 pistols CZ-75D were bought in 1998. These pistols are used by police SWAT teams.
Lithuania: Lithuanian Armed Forces.
Mexico: CZ P09 used by selected units of Federal Police since 2014
Philippines: Ministry of Interior
Poland: Polish police (limited use).
Russian Federation: Used by law enforcement.
Slovakia: Slovak rail police, military police and the elite paramilitary tactical unit (Slovak: Kukláči).
South Africa
Spain: Used by the Municipal police
Thailand: Used by Royal Thai Army special units and Ministry of Interior.
Turkey: General Directorate of Security
United States: Used by several police departments and Delta Force.

[Aguila Blanca]

When I think of "iconic" 9mm pistols, I think of the Luger, the Hi-Power, and the P38.

The Beretta and the CZ-75 are arguably world class pistols, and certainly have been widely adopted in many countries, but IMHO neither has achieved icon status.

[bac1023]

Well, limiting the thread to three pistols seemed a bit boring. That's why I used the different tiers.

[TnTnTn]

Nice choices and pistolas. I would have put a Broomhandle Mauser big red 9 on the top row instead of the Smith.

[focodude]

Fantastic picture! Thanks for sharing. You have an impressive collection! The 9mm is my favorite handgun caliber also.

I'm curious, do most of the guns in the picture have steel frames (vs aluminum alloy)? I know most Sig p226 and Beretta 92 models have aluminum alloy farmes but don't know if any of the other guns do.

[bac1023]

Thank you

The Beretta 92, Sig P226, Smith & Wesson 39, and the Walther P38 all have aluminum frames.

The war time P38's had steel frames. The very early Smith & Wesson 39's also had steel frames, but they are collector's items now.

[Que]

As the 9mm Luger round was created for the P08 I would have to put the Luger at the head of the class. I agree with the rest of the choices with the caveat that I don't know much about the Star. My list would definitely include the Glock G17.

[KyJim]

First, great group of pistols. I also think the G17 should be on the list and I'm not a great Glock fan.

Those of us who have been on the forum for awhile know you have an extensive and exquisite collection of handguns. My question is which handgun or handgun(s) do you rely on for home defense or carry?

[bac1023]

Jim, thanks for the kind words.

As for the Glock 17, I really just wanted the thread to be about metal pistols. I like polymers and own quite a few, but I just prefer steel and/or metal handguns.

I carry a 1911, usually my Kimber Pro CDP. On occasion, I'll carry my G33 or Smith & Wesson Shield.

I almost always have my KelTec P3AT as a backup or my only gun when I can't carry anything else. Say what you want about it, the gun has never malfunctioned in the 10+ years I've owned it and its very small, light, and thin.

[Sevens]

RX-79G

Even though the C96 was not originally 9mm?

Help me as I do not actually know... The P08 "Luger" also came in .30 Luger caliber, did it precede 9mm or the opposite, or did they debut together?

[RX-79G]

The 7.65 Parabellum is a shortened version of the 7.65 Borchardt specifically for the Luger. It dates from 1897 and was adopted in 1900. 9mm Parabellum was created in 1902 from the 7.65 Para, also for the Luger. They are both original Luger chamberings, created by the Georg Luger for his pistols.

9mm Broomhandles were stop gap.

[caz223]

I commend you on your taste in firearms.

[gyvel]

Philippines: Ministry of Interior

True dat. I saw plenty of cops carrying them at NAIA in Manila. Nice nickel ones, too.

[Mike Irwin]

Nice to see three of my four 9mms made your list...

I've got a Hi Power, a Radom, and a HK P7PSP.

My Star BM isn't on your list, but the B is, so we're good there.

Up until a few years ago the United States Park Police issued P7 M13s to most of its officers, with M8s issued to female officers, detectives, and others on special request.

They've since gone to P2000s in .40.

[44 AMP]

For me, like the Highlander, there can be only one.

LUGER.
aka P.08, aka Pistole Parabellum, and a host of other (often less complimentary names, )

Yes, the P.38 then the P.35 Browning, and a host of others are famous, and widely used, but for true icon status, what else than a Luger?

For the .45ACP its the Colt Government model (1911A1). For the 9mm, the Luger.

You can have all the icons you want. You can have combat Tupperware on your list if you want. But for me, for the 9mm, its the Luger. Nothing else is the same.

(yes, I know many more modern designs are better guns, but so what? That wasn't the question!)