Karate vs. Aikido - Page 2

jdthaddeus · May 26, 2004, 01:11 AM

Someone asked about JKD. I am a certified instructor in JKD Concepts (which, unlike other arts, is a VERY tough title to attain), and I think there is nothing better. There are some good progressive arts out there, but obviously I chose JKDC because I tried the rest and its the best.

I took Kenpo for a year before JKDC. I can honestly say that Kenpo made me a WORSE fighter by teaching me all kinds of useless crap that didn't work, and putting me into a static box. I would have learned more just gloving up and brawling with my buddies in my backyard for a few hours.

ronin308 · May 26, 2004, 12:51 PM

Quote:

I can honestly say that Kenpo made me a WORSE fighter by teaching me all kinds of useless crap that didn't work, and putting me into a static box. I would have learned more just gloving up and brawling with my buddies in my backyard for a few hours.

Amen to that. Not only Kenpo though but tons of other martial arts. I love all martial arts, but I think that many of them are studied too soon. My approach is to learn how to successfully defend myself from armed and unarmed assault as best as I can. Once I have those skills in place, only then will I move on to learn arts that may not necessarily increase my defensive fighting skills.

searcher1 · May 26, 2004, 01:15 PM

I'll take whatever martial art the lawyer who was shown on TV evading bullets from his insane client at point blank range by ducking and weaving behind a tree was using.

Z_Infidel · May 27, 2004, 02:16 PM

Not to start an argument, but I'd like to comment on the generalities I see concerning karate in this thread. First, "karate" has come to be a pretty generic term that many people associate with "a striking and kicking style primarity used for tournament fighting" or something approaching that. While some karate styles and schools do stress striking and kicking over other techniques and are heavily involved in the tournament scene, especially point tournaments, there are other traditional styles and schools that continue to stress the more classic influences that formed the basis of karate originally -- namely, a means of self defense against people trying to kill you, often with weapons.

I have trained in Goju Ryu karate for many years. It is a close-in style that includes not only striking and kicking, but also throws, take-downs, joint breaks and manipulations, linear as well as circular techniques, and is pretty versatile. While some Goju practitioners engage in sport fighting, Goju is better suited to combat application and can be very effective in practical self defense -- just how effective depends on the individual.

As for karate stances, deep and / or locked stances are not intended to be used at all times as primary fighting stances. A stance is locked at the point of impact with the target and in proper use does not detract from the fluidity required in a revolving fight. The low, wide stance is useful when fighting on rough terrain or the side of a hill.

The general term "karate" refers to many styles, some of which are more practical than others, and this post is not meant to promote Goju or any style as better than any other.

Aikibiker · May 31, 2004, 02:19 AM

I have been training in Aikido for a few years now. The break falls have really saved my bacon a few times going off my motorcycle. The one time I got into a "fight" since I started training it seemed to work rather well.

Whatever you do what you put into it is what you will get out. I know some Aikidoists that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. I also know some that could rip your arm off and beat you with it. I have met people from both camps in all sorts of martial arts. Whatever you choose remember that there is a difference between training in martial arts and STUDYING martial arts. You shoudln't leave your Aikido/Karate/whatever you do at the dojo when you leave. You should be trying to learn new things about how to be an effective combatant at every opportunity.

twoblink · May 31, 2004, 06:21 AM

Brazilian Jujitsu and Muay Thai..

learn something USEFUL to self-defense..

Judo a very distant third.

ronin308 · May 31, 2004, 11:00 AM

Joel brings up a good point with breakfalls. I've saved my butt as well doing breakfalls that I learned in my year-and-a-half study of Aikido.

Scott Evans · June 10, 2004, 05:41 AM

The dedication of the individual practitioner and his mind set are the most important elements in effectively preparing for self-defense. Blind faith in a name tag just because someone else thinks so is silly. There are way too many variables involved to pick a best for all label. Age of the practitioner, background, body type and general physical condition all matter and are all changing for each of us as the years go by. What may have been a solid choice for me at age 20 may not work well at age 50. What works for a 6 foot 190 lbs dude is not likely to work the same for a 5’-6” 220 lbs guy with a bum knee. You have to honestly evaluate where you are and what you are capable of in order to train effectively for likely attackers.

dfaugh · June 25, 2004, 07:04 AM

and after dabbled with many others (Aikido, Bando, Kung-Fu (really hard!), Capoeira)...Well...there are components of any and all that are good(IMHO). Finding a good instructor is pivotal, and they're few an far between...If they know your goals, they should help you learn what you want. I probably lean towards karate(from a self-defence standpoint), but maybe because I had an outstanding instructor, and it was the first martial art I learned. As someone else pointed out, most all martial arts are derived from the same basics (Kung-Fu) but have been adapted in different ways. Also, as pointed out, beware of the "black-belt factories" out there...There are schools near me where you can get a "black belt" in less than a year.... My original instructor would find this laughable...In his school (and maybe that's why he gave it up and went back to the Orient) it would take YEARS of intense work to get a black belt...but it would MEAN something.

Any .45 · June 25, 2004, 12:04 PM

I am a practitoner of "Bushido", I am a Yondan (4th Dan) in Aki-jujutsu, I have studied and am Sempai (senior student of Hanshi Sichidan (7th dan) Louis Garcia, who studied under various masters in europe and japan. One important master he studied under for 2 yrs in New york under Hachidan ( 8th dan) Yoshimitsu Yamada. My Sensai has mastered over 8 diffrent Martial ways in his 30 yrs of training and has passed alot of his knowledge to me and his son. I'm not a live in student but do train 5 days a week or more sometimes, and at least 2 hours a day, not including meditation times. As a true Martialist who has studied Battodo, bodo, Iado, Kendo, koryu budo, Jujutsu, aikido, karate-do, and portions of other Bushido ways, have come to realize that all arts are created equal in some way, if you know only karate, and you fight some one that only know ju-jutsu, and are both equal in every aspect, who has the advantage? answer niether Karate is a striking technique which your opponent has to be outside of your circle and jujutsu the opponent needs to be inside and close, so the best thing for one to as kis not karate or aikido, which is better the question to ask is karate or aikido which one would I be better in. beside the fact that all striking arts have become comercial there are still some really good schools that focus more on the way than the art, more on spirituality than fighting, unless needed to defend yourself. I'm 22 yrs young 5'10 300lbs and have no problem performing any of my techniques, I just don't like to jump in the air and spin etc. so my answer for Karate VS Aikido is AIKIDO, because of my body style not that aikido is better or worse than karate.

Any .45 · June 25, 2004, 12:07 PM

As to Dfaugh i totally agree i have been studing for almost eleven years and just attained my Yondan one month ago, My Sensei will recieve his Hachidan in a month and he's been studying for 30 yrs. Also to recieve higher rank than Hachi dan he would have to found his own style.

capi15406 · June 25, 2004, 02:37 PM

As a former police officer and now full-time Defensive Tactics Instructor, we teach a blend of Hapkido and JuJitsu for LEO and Civilains. We encourage cross-training and remain non-style specific.

Mushinto · June 27, 2004, 12:46 PM

For a short answer:

Aikido should teach you awareness and non-lethal controling techniques and Karate (non-tournament) is the best martial art to learn quickly.

For a long answer, I would say that Bahadur has some very good points.

ML

General_Tso · June 28, 2004, 03:19 PM

Just like guns, every martial art is a tool in the tool box. You need to pick the appropriate tool for you.

View Poll Results: Karate vs. Aikido
Karate	21	32.31%
Aikido	44	67.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

May 26, 2004, 01:15 PM	#28
searcher1 Junior Member Join Date: May 26, 2004 Posts: 3	What he uses. I'll take whatever martial art the lawyer who was shown on TV evading bullets from his insane client at point blank range by ducking and weaving behind a tree was using.

May 31, 2004, 02:19 AM	#30
Aikibiker Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2002 Posts: 181	I have been training in Aikido for a few years now. The break falls have really saved my bacon a few times going off my motorcycle. The one time I got into a "fight" since I started training it seemed to work rather well. Whatever you do what you put into it is what you will get out. I know some Aikidoists that couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. I also know some that could rip your arm off and beat you with it. I have met people from both camps in all sorts of martial arts. Whatever you choose remember that there is a difference between training in martial arts and STUDYING martial arts. You shoudln't leave your Aikido/Karate/whatever you do at the dojo when you leave. You should be trying to learn new things about how to be an effective combatant at every opportunity. __________________ __________________________ ~Joel TFL survivor, THR member, TFL member once again!

May 31, 2004, 06:21 AM	#31
twoblink Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1999 Location: Taipei, Taiwan Posts: 2,025	Brazilian Jujitsu and Muay Thai.. learn something USEFUL to self-defense.. Judo a very distant third. __________________ "An unarmed society is one that's ripe for tyranny and oppression."

May 31, 2004, 11:00 AM	#32
ronin308 Senior Member Join Date: April 9, 2001 Posts: 1,977	Joel brings up a good point with breakfalls. I've saved my butt as well doing breakfalls that I learned in my year-and-a-half study of Aikido. __________________ If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara desert in five years there’d be a shortage of sand. -Milton Friedman

May 26, 2004, 01:11 AM	#26
jdthaddeus Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 1999 Location: Az Posts: 470	Someone asked about JKD. I am a certified instructor in JKD Concepts (which, unlike other arts, is a VERY tough title to attain), and I think there is nothing better. There are some good progressive arts out there, but obviously I chose JKDC because I tried the rest and its the best. I took Kenpo for a year before JKDC. I can honestly say that Kenpo made me a WORSE fighter by teaching me all kinds of useless crap that didn't work, and putting me into a static box. I would have learned more just gloving up and brawling with my buddies in my backyard for a few hours.

May 27, 2004, 02:16 PM	#29
Z_Infidel Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2002 Posts: 117	Not to start an argument, but I'd like to comment on the generalities I see concerning karate in this thread. First, "karate" has come to be a pretty generic term that many people associate with "a striking and kicking style primarity used for tournament fighting" or something approaching that. While some karate styles and schools do stress striking and kicking over other techniques and are heavily involved in the tournament scene, especially point tournaments, there are other traditional styles and schools that continue to stress the more classic influences that formed the basis of karate originally -- namely, a means of self defense against people trying to kill you, often with weapons. I have trained in Goju Ryu karate for many years. It is a close-in style that includes not only striking and kicking, but also throws, take-downs, joint breaks and manipulations, linear as well as circular techniques, and is pretty versatile. While some Goju practitioners engage in sport fighting, Goju is better suited to combat application and can be very effective in practical self defense -- just how effective depends on the individual. As for karate stances, deep and / or locked stances are not intended to be used at all times as primary fighting stances. A stance is locked at the point of impact with the target and in proper use does not detract from the fluidity required in a revolving fight. The low, wide stance is useful when fighting on rough terrain or the side of a hill. The general term "karate" refers to many styles, some of which are more practical than others, and this post is not meant to promote Goju or any style as better than any other.

June 10, 2004, 05:41 AM	#33
Scott Evans Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 7, 1998 Location: Jacksonville, NC Posts: 1,380	The dedication of the individual practitioner and his mind set are the most important elements in effectively preparing for self-defense. Blind faith in a name tag just because someone else thinks so is silly. There are way too many variables involved to pick a best for all label. Age of the practitioner, background, body type and general physical condition all matter and are all changing for each of us as the years go by. What may have been a solid choice for me at age 20 may not work well at age 50. What works for a 6 foot 190 lbs dude is not likely to work the same for a 5’-6” 220 lbs guy with a bum knee. You have to honestly evaluate where you are and what you are capable of in order to train effectively for likely attackers. __________________ “This is my rifle, there are many like it but this one is mine …” MOLON LABE ! I’m a G-CODE holster fan ! www.range5.com

June 25, 2004, 07:04 AM	#34
dfaugh Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2002 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 1,715	Started with Ishin Ryu Karate and after dabbled with many others (Aikido, Bando, Kung-Fu (really hard!), Capoeira)...Well...there are components of any and all that are good(IMHO). Finding a good instructor is pivotal, and they're few an far between...If they know your goals, they should help you learn what you want. I probably lean towards karate(from a self-defence standpoint), but maybe because I had an outstanding instructor, and it was the first martial art I learned. As someone else pointed out, most all martial arts are derived from the same basics (Kung-Fu) but have been adapted in different ways. Also, as pointed out, beware of the "black-belt factories" out there...There are schools near me where you can get a "black belt" in less than a year.... My original instructor would find this laughable...In his school (and maybe that's why he gave it up and went back to the Orient) it would take YEARS of intense work to get a black belt...but it would MEAN something. __________________ "If you Listen to Fools, the Mob Rules" "No one has the answer, but one thing is true. You'e got to turn on evil, when its coming after you. You've gotta face it down,and when it tries to hide, you've got to go in after it, and never be denied. Time is running out...Let's roll. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for love. We're going after satan, on the wings of a dove. Let's roll for freedom, let's roll for truth. Let's not let our children grow up fearful in their youth."

June 25, 2004, 12:04 PM	#35
Any .45 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2004 Location: SW FLORIDA, USA Posts: 604	I am a practitoner of "Bushido", I am a Yondan (4th Dan) in Aki-jujutsu, I have studied and am Sempai (senior student of Hanshi Sichidan (7th dan) Louis Garcia, who studied under various masters in europe and japan. One important master he studied under for 2 yrs in New york under Hachidan ( 8th dan) Yoshimitsu Yamada. My Sensai has mastered over 8 diffrent Martial ways in his 30 yrs of training and has passed alot of his knowledge to me and his son. I'm not a live in student but do train 5 days a week or more sometimes, and at least 2 hours a day, not including meditation times. As a true Martialist who has studied Battodo, bodo, Iado, Kendo, koryu budo, Jujutsu, aikido, karate-do, and portions of other Bushido ways, have come to realize that all arts are created equal in some way, if you know only karate, and you fight some one that only know ju-jutsu, and are both equal in every aspect, who has the advantage? answer niether Karate is a striking technique which your opponent has to be outside of your circle and jujutsu the opponent needs to be inside and close, so the best thing for one to as kis not karate or aikido, which is better the question to ask is karate or aikido which one would I be better in. beside the fact that all striking arts have become comercial there are still some really good schools that focus more on the way than the art, more on spirituality than fighting, unless needed to defend yourself. I'm 22 yrs young 5'10 300lbs and have no problem performing any of my techniques, I just don't like to jump in the air and spin etc. so my answer for Karate VS Aikido is AIKIDO, because of my body style not that aikido is better or worse than karate. __________________ Foster and polish The warior spirit While serving in the world; Illuminate the path According to your inner light" "Spring forth from the Great Earth; Billow like Great Waves; Stand like a tree, sit like a rock; Use One to strike All. Learn and forget! " "At the instant A warrior Confronts a foe, All things Come into focus" Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) Founder of Aikido

June 25, 2004, 12:07 PM	#36
Any .45 Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2004 Location: SW FLORIDA, USA Posts: 604	As to Dfaugh i totally agree i have been studing for almost eleven years and just attained my Yondan one month ago, My Sensei will recieve his Hachidan in a month and he's been studying for 30 yrs. Also to recieve higher rank than Hachi dan he would have to found his own style. __________________ Foster and polish The warior spirit While serving in the world; Illuminate the path According to your inner light" "Spring forth from the Great Earth; Billow like Great Waves; Stand like a tree, sit like a rock; Use One to strike All. Learn and forget! " "At the instant A warrior Confronts a foe, All things Come into focus" Morihei Ueshiba (1883-1969) Founder of Aikido

June 25, 2004, 02:37 PM	#37
capi15406 Junior Member Join Date: June 25, 2004 Location: Seaside, CA Posts: 2	Karate or Aikido As a former police officer and now full-time Defensive Tactics Instructor, we teach a blend of Hapkido and JuJitsu for LEO and Civilains. We encourage cross-training and remain non-style specific.

June 27, 2004, 12:46 PM	#38
Mushinto Member Join Date: August 22, 1999 Location: Melbourne, Florida USA Posts: 70	Both For a short answer: Aikido should teach you awareness and non-lethal controling techniques and Karate (non-tournament) is the best martial art to learn quickly. For a long answer, I would say that Bahadur has some very good points. ML

June 28, 2004, 03:19 PM	#39
General_Tso Member Join Date: August 14, 2002 Location: Ohio Posts: 61	Just like guns, every martial art is a tool in the tool box. You need to pick the appropriate tool for you.