Protecting Myself

[Eghad]

Congrats on defending yourself......and giving the scumbam some pain
but now that you know how quick things can happen you will be better prepared.

would you have been able to spray the mace over the top of the stall door?

one thing you might consider next time is using the mace in your weak hand and using your strong hand to stiff arm him to give you a little distance. plus if he grabs the hand without the mace...hehe. The only bad thing about mace in close qaurters is you may get a dose too.

another trick if you dont have mace or anything is to take your car keys and stick the longest one out between your middle and ring finger and curl your fist around it and go for a soft spot like the eyes or throat......

[blackmind]

Originally Posted by pythonguy

Hey Blackmind, read post #43 by Mannlicher, tough guy. You have a guilty conscience or something? Long Island has 3 million people, you know every one of of them, eh?

I was led to believe you were replying to stuff I said, since your post immediately followed mine and did not quote the person to whom you were replying.

Since my post did make reference to the possibility of her carrying despite it being illegal, I think it is fair that you were calling me out.

Next time you might want to put [quote= and then the name and then close bracket, and we will know who you are replying to.

Thanks in advance,
-blackmind

[Ftom14cat]

spacemanspiff....regarding your question as to what was wrong with the icepick grip.... How can you possibly stab someone except on the downstroke? Right there you have more than halved the available moves you can perform. Furthermore, were you to attempt a slash you would have to reach past the intended slash location, seeing as how the blade of the knife is not facing your enemy when performing a slashing motion. Therefore, you would have to either perform a quick lunge, which would throw you off ballance, or you would have to disarm your opponent first and then slash them. If you have a knife, already a shortrange tool, why lessen that range by holding it away from your target?

Don't look to Steven Segal for advice on knife fighting.

[CobrayCommando]

http://www.bladefighting.com/sequences/seq3.htm

While most people who claim they can teach you to fight off a knife attack unarmed are full of BS, against an icepick grip it is realistic. To add to that it exposes your torso and armpits to attack. Also any targets when using the icepick are largely protected by bone, and if the other guy has a knife, its hard to counterattack and slash his arm, and you have to get within a foot or two to stab effectively. Fencing and hammer grips are both far better in my opinion.

[LAK]

Alyssa Marcia

Well im not going to live somewhere depending on my right to carry a gun, im not gonna let fear keep me from doing what I want with my life, and that includes where I live.

Basically I understand your position, but you must also consider that the bottom line is; where you choose to live in this country determines to what extent you are able to exercize your right to defend yourself due to State laws etc.

Rational fear is very healthy; the risks we choose to take on a day to day basis must be weighed and calculated, largely balancing probability and potential consequences.

I was using the fox labs mace by the way, and it doesnt matter how effective of a chemical it is if the guy turns my hand away, I ended up getting his sholder all wet. As far as losing control of a gun the same way, I do believe that if I shot him in the sholder in self deffence the ordeal would end right there.

Learning experience; it sounds to me like he was ready for you to come out of the stall and was a split second ahead of you. Just speculation (and this is not knowing how many stalls there were and whether you had stalls either side of you etc) but had you stood up on the comode you might have avoided your "shooting arm" being grabbed and been able to spray this guy in the face. Had you possessed a pistol, this might likewise given you a more protected position.

With an active and ongoing interest in protecting yourself you can learn to better analyse your situations and hopefully choose the best course of action. There are no guarantees - just the ability tom often stack the odds in your favor.

Last time I tried to write a letter to the government, me and my friends all did it together. We all recieved the exact same photo copy letter saying that our congressmen would do their best to represent us, so basicly it was a, "ok, we get it, blah blah, some bull****, have a nice day".

Welcome to big government. Your best protector is you.

[Para Bellum]

Alyssa Marcia,

I am glad you came out of this and congratulations on your successful fight! Well done.

Gun:
If you consider using a firearm for your protection, I'd recommend a Glock 26. It is a very small and handy gun that holds 13 bullets in 9x19mm. So it's a little handy gun with a lot of controllable firepower. For ammunition I'd recommend Federal EFMJ. This ammo is very effective and should be legal in most US-States.
Gock 26:


Martial Arts
Youl already did react very well. That shows that you are a fighter and don't get paralized unter attack. What you might need is a no-nonsense self-defense-group. Unfortunately I only know these in Europe. Try to find a comprehensive jiu-jitsu school. The jiu-jitsu system is the most comprehensive one in my opinion. Avoid people who call themselves "Masters" or make some personal cult abouth themselves. Good people are humble and decent.
The martial arts can be divided into three fields: Self-Defence, Martial Sports and so-called "Soft" Martial Arts.

Self-Defence need not be graceful, fair or an appropriate subject of competition. It need only be effective and easy to recall. Focussing on real-life situations, self-defence systems need to provide for appropriate and reliable ways for a suprised defendant to protect him/herself without taking risks. Self-defence therefore rather be radical and simple. The best self-defence system I know is ATK (European). Krav Maga Maor (Israelian) also makes quite some sense.

Martial Sports have a totally different aim. Though they mostly originated from real-life combat techniques, they have changed in order to give a forum for fair competition. Sometimes they are as far away from self-defence as olympic fencing is from an ancient swordfight. They give rise to tremendous athletic and acrobatic performance. Such Martial Sports are e.g. TaeKwonDo, Judo, Karate, Wrestling and (Kick-) Boxing.

"Soft" Martial Arts should not be misunderstood. Although they focus on the art as such, they can be very tough. Usually they take very long to be learned and don't provide a forum for competition. E.g. Aikido and Chinese Kung-Fu Styles are usually neither practiced for athletic nor self-defence purposes. However, they can be extremly demanding and effective once one has reached master's skills.


The best training you could get were a SWAT or military instructor teaching you 1 on 1 and then later practice in a club with friends.

Stay safe and keep up your brave spirit!

[CyberSEAL]

IMHO, the best martial arts to learn are Brazillian Jiu-Jitsu and Muay Thai (Thai Boxing). Jeet Kune Do helps tie together everything you've learned from studying different arts...

Taking these classes beats going to the gym because you will get a great workout from each session and will learn something invaluable.

[jburtonpdx]

As a woman I do not have the strength to fight off an attacker

Wow - dont let my wife here you say that - or my daughter, or sister, etc...

Alyssa,
I am glad you came out of this able to talk about it. I am also glad you are making decisions based on what you want rather then fear.

You had the sense to keep fighting no matter what - that is very tough, there are men who would have crumbled after being cut. Often the physical strength is not what wins - the will to keep fighting is.

In an earlier post you talked about not having the time to take self defence courses. This is concerning - as a gun for self defence is going to be much more usefull with training. The mace you had would also have been much more use with training, as would many other items.

I would urge you along with others here to seek training. Firearms for self defence along with some sort of hand to hand stuff. I would suggest you stay away from the tournement sports type stuff. If you are willing to seek training look for and talk with the instructor about real life and if the techniques taught would be of use on the street. This guy has some interesting views on the subject

http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/martialarts.html

Whatever you choose, I am greatfull that you are still with us to make the choice!

[Alyssa Marcia]

Thank you all for your comments and advice, its nice to have this place where people can help me protect my life. I have decided to get the Pro-9 that I was looking at. As far as not being able to have it outside of home, I do think its a good idea to go into public bathrooms with someone else when possible. I have looked into that deffence class Women on Target, and will be attending one in the following month. I now cary a pocket knife and my mace, so that I am a double threat. It is funny some of the things I never considered, like keeping my strong arm free, but your suggestions gave me some good ideas. Thanks again, I will probably get back to you all when I get my gun, for I don't know much about taking care of it, or best places to keep it where its handy at home, and not a danger to young ones at the same time.

[WillBrayjr]

Make sure to field strip and clean it after every trip to the range. The manual that comes with the pistol will tell you how to strip it. If you are still unsure how to strip the pistol have the dealer show you. I recomend getting an Otis Micro Kit if you don't already have a cleaning kit. They are available at www.otisgun.com and are priced at $9.95!

[PythonGuy]

Just trying not to use any names Blackmind, but I see your point.

[PythonGuy]

Fair points USP45usp, solutions to problems like these are never quick and easy, and that includes CCW as its a huge responsibility 24/7, not just when things go bad. In states that don't permit carry use of the most effective pepper spray that can be had, not getting into possible bad situations, ie, walking alone on dark streets, or in bad areas. The sad fact is, crime does happen, bad things do happen, and sometimes you can't avoid it. Getting caught carrying an illegal and going to jail, losing certain rights, and seriously imparing employment opportunities are more likely to happen then crime.

[MK11]

This isn't relevant to the thread at large but if you guys think an edge-in, reverse grip is useless, you must be training like a robotic Norman Bates. It has a place just like fencing and hammer grips, particularly in a clinch, which is going to happen more often some knife-on-knife fantasy duel.

[Mannlicher]

PythonGuy could have spared us all the boorish pontification if he had just read the entire reply.............

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Blah, blah - to cut to the chase, Insights offers two course sets in Defensive Knife Use and Unarmed Self Defense.

If the post is real, I suggest that courses from them or of similar character are the best to take. Long term martial arts courses may not suffice, esp. if one has (ahem) no time to train but want to carry a specific gun.

The gun choice is so trivial.

No one carries Mace BTW - it's OC. Mace brand has OC now. All the grip stuff.

I also have some interesting doubts.

[Ichiro]

You extend the weak arm into the assailant's face as a bait/shield, while the strong arm holds the arsenal--right cross, pepper spray, knife, or gun. Same technique as if you're facing off against an attacking dog. Be willing to "sacrifice" the weak arm momentarily while the real power executes the blow.

I know you've already made your choice about which gun to purchase, but I still want to encourage you to consider a double-action only revolver. These guns will fire always, as long as you can pull the trigger. Sideways, upside down, limp-wristing, inside of a coat/purse. And the manual of arms is as simple as it gets. Under stress, we tend to forget everything except the most basic urges: run, fight, pull the trigger. And with a heavy trigger pull, you are much less likely to discharge the weapon unintentionally.

~Ichiro

[spacemanspiff]

ichiro, as with the defensive knife techniques, the choice of DA revolver over SA or SA/DA semiauto is very subjective. granted, many people suggest revolvers for women, thinking that the action of working a slide to chamber a round, or fiddling with a manual safety, or learning a 5 lb trigger is too much for a female to grasp.

however, i have seen far more shooters (both men and women) not be able to hit the broadside of a barn with their 'reliable' revolvers, but once a semiauto is in their hands, they can get groups that are 'good enough for government work'.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Hi Alyssa,

I came to this post late. I'm a female shooter and new owner of the Ruger SP101 2" DAO, I also have a model 60 2" Smith and Wesson, and fifteen other guns.... Self defense seminars are useless as you have to be actively taking classes for it to mean something and I say that having attended the late Remy Presas's Arnis seminars three times - and remembered nothing. My five years of Wing Chun served me better.

Unfortunately, you're heading towards the wrong part of the country for gun rights - only my state is worse. I would recommend reconsidering where you live or plan to live - otherwise, change your habits. Don't go places alone, keep your place well lite and secure, be careful where you go and how late you're out. Sadly there's little really you can do as women and children are easy targets always and we're further victimized by gun laws that give the guns to the wrong people - the offender while the law abiding are left with mace. I can't carry myself because of my city's anti gun laws but when (and if) I can - it'll never leave my hip. Best of luck to you.

[claude783]

Only in America do the honest, decent people put bars on their windows, double lock their doors and hide at night from the criminals who "own" the streets.

Sadly, you will probably not be able to carry a gun. I wish it were otherwise, but our govenment in their infinite wisdom feels that we (sheep) are meant to be slaughtered!

Now, you have a small knife (2-3 inch blade/folding). Here is a nice, dirty little trick that can equalize a small woman against a much larger adversary.

I carry my change/money in my weak hand pocket...I carry a small (cold steel) knife clipped to my strong hand side.

At the first sign of problems, scream as loudly as you can, at the same time toss the change, money into their face, as you are doing this drop to one knee and shove the knife into either the femor artery, or shove it through the testicals into the pelvic girdle...no bone so the blade slips in easy!

Slashes should be kept at the inside of the arms, or above the eyes, so the blood drips into their eyes...a stab to the face should be either the throat, the soft palet (underside of jaw) or through the eye socket..if the knife is dropped, a thumb can be shoved through the eye socket...The scream, toss, drop, and stab can be done in 1 second...attack without mercy. When the man is down kick to the knees, the testicals, throat, rib cage, but keep up the attack until you "KNOW" he is unable to persue you!

[Ichiro]

...My suggestion of a DAO revolver is made without consideration of gender or strength, only the consideration of a stressed-out, adrenaline-filled blood stream that reduces all of us to gross-motor-only beings who need something simple to stop the threat, and NOW. From my own experience, I know that centerfire semiautos are much easier to shoot accurately at any kind of distance. Kimbers, Glocks, Kahrs, whatever...my guess is that they are all superior to my DAO Ruger SP-101 for hitting a target consistently at 21 feet and beyond.

However, I think my SP will do excellent groups at point-blank, whether I'm standing, shooting sideways, left handed, or while I'm struggling underneath my attacker who just tackled me. There's no safety, and there's no slide. Just a trigger and five shots of promise.

For someone who has stated she has no time for a self-defense class, much less Thunder Ranch, I think a DAO revolver is the way to go. Some range time will be required, however.

~Ichiro

[Ichiro]

...What kind of Cold Steel knife do you carry? I had a 3" voyager, full serration, that someone stole, and I loved it. That knife would cut through anything.

Now I have a Spyderco Calypso Jr., which I love as well.

~Ichiro

[Eghad]

I have seen folks miss the target at 3 yards with a DA Revolver.....some in my CCW Class. So the only advice I would give if you buy a DA Revolver is pratice the trigger pull on it........

I started out with the 1911 which has a two stage trigger.

When I went to CCW class at the local Sheriffs Academy, we all had to start out with S&W DA revolvers. The trigger pull on a DA Revolver is a different beastie. I didnt have as much trouble as some folks. Its just you have to practice getting that smooth rearward pull over a distance. We were not allowed to cock the hammer of the revolver for SA mode. The first 3-4 weeks some folks still had problems with the trigger pull....However some improved after getting the hang of it. While the DA Revolver may be the safest and easiest to operate....practice does a body good as far as DA Trigger goes.

The reason I mentioned stiff arming with the strong hand is that I am also going to using the heel of my palm to see how far back his nose will go. If he grabs my arm see what a Liverpool kiss will do.

[Massan]

http://www.bladefighting.com/sequences/seq3.htm

While most people who claim they can teach you to fight off a knife attack unarmed are full of BS, against an icepick grip it is realistic. To add to that it exposes your torso and armpits to attack. Also any targets when using the icepick are largely protected by bone, and if the other guy has a knife, its hard to counterattack and slash his arm, and you have to get within a foot or two to stab effectively. Fencing and hammer grips are both far better in my opinion.

Personally I think that "technique" shown there is a load of bull. At any given time around the 4th picture BLACK can twist the blade inwards towards the body and WHITE sustains a stab wound. Thats even assuming BLACK countinues the attack as shown in the 3rd picture. Granted the areas noted for strikes to disable BLACK are pretty good but the sequence of events arent exactly realistic, then again it is just training.

[CarbineCaleb]

Another alternative is a stun gun type system... like this "cell-phone" model:
http://www.safetygearhq.com/cell-phone-stun-gun.htm
...which is nice because you can use it in open carry mode without attracting attention - it's the stealth defense.

[Powderman]

There is something else to consider here.

You mentioned shooting your assailant in the shoulder.

Please be aware that there is no such thing as shooting to wound. You must keep the mindset that your use of deadly force is to make your attacker STOP what they are doing. Also, keep in mind that deadly force commences the second your weapon becomes visible--not when you pull the trigger.

Most encounters are resolved without a shot being fired, as the BG suddenly realizes that they do not desire a high-speed injection of hot metal. However, some are only enraged at the sight of a victim defending themselves; some don't take it seriously, and some just don't give a rip.

Then, your option is to engage the target (shoot) with aimed rounds, center of mass of the visible target until the BG stops what they are doing.

With that in mind, please remember the four basic rules of handling firearms:

All guns are always loaded.
Finger OFF the trigger until you are ready to shoot.
NEVER point a gun at anything you are not willing to KILL.
Be sure of your backstop (impact point) and what is behind.

Good luck!