Ram Rod channel repair

Sure Shot Mc Gee · September 17, 2013, 07:46 AM

Got a 54 T/C renegade here. I notice it has a overly tight ram rod channel. Or perhaps a little warp'ness or something going on in there. Just how do you fellows go about resolving that kind of circumstance?

PetahW · September 17, 2013, 10:15 AM

.

If the bind is in the wood, and not the thimbles, I'd pull the barrel & look down the hole with a good light first, incase there's a piece of cleaning patch or something else that shouldn't be there, before running a hand-held long drill bit of the appropriate diameter down the channel, like a reamer.

I disremember if T/C has a RR tension/retention leaf spring in there - if so, the leaf might be twisted from getting caught by a cleaning jag.

Does the rifle have the correct size RR ? (diameter)

.

Pahoo · September 17, 2013, 10:40 AM

Sure Shot
Doesn't it stand to reason that if your stock was warped enough to restrict your rod, that you will also see effect in the barrel channel? Check your ramrod channel for any obstructions. I have a bore light that will illuminate the entire channel but seldom have to use it.

Then you can eliminate the effect of the ramrod retainer clip. There are a couple of ways you can do this and removing the barrel would be my first pass. This is the small clip that is mounted on the under-barrel rib, breech end. You may choose to temporarily remove it. Some of these can be very tight. If you choose to bend your clip, be very careful and they can break at the mounting hole. Next pass is to check your ramrod for warpage, visually or spinning it on your fingers.

Not doubting you but in all the years of working on these, I have never had to redrill a ramrod channel. As far as ramrod diameter, it should be, 3/8"

Be Safe !!!

Pahoo · September 17, 2013, 11:02 AM

I refurbish and rebuild, old school ramrods. The best will always be made of hickory. I have made some out of Honey Locust and they are gorgeous. They are also hard to work with and tend to warp. There are other materials; plastics, polys and fiber glass but hickory is the best for Old-School SideLocks. Ramrod tip OD's should transition smoothly onto the OD of the rod so as not to hang up on the clips and channel. .....

Be Safe !!!

Sure Shot Mc Gee · September 17, 2013, 11:59 AM

PetahW

Quote:

Does the rifle have the correct size RR ? (diameter)

Ram rod is its original.
Nothing in the channel that I can see. Just a long rudimentary drilled hole. The R-R tensioning spring is fastened to the bottom of its barrel rib very close to its R-R entrance hole into the stock. Not that much tensioning on that little piece of spring steel do I feel/see with its R-R installed. As far as a channel light. I don't have anything to slide/fit down into its 3/8s hole. Got bore lights but nothing that small to do the job with. {got any suggestion for a reflection tool?}
Wooden R-R doesn't appear warped. The drill that the factory uses to bore out a channel with. Would it be like what an electrician uses to drill thru wall plates to string door bell wire thru/with? {foot or better shaft length on some bigger bit sizes I've noticed at my Home Depot.} One thing I haven't done with this rifle. Its been in storage a long long time. wo/ its R-R attached. If that means anything?

Pahoo · September 17, 2013, 12:59 PM

Whenever I see posts like this, I wish Y'all were my neighbors. I'm a hands-on kind of person and it's so hard to see and reason, a problem. ....

At this time, have to think you have an obstruction rather that a stock problem. ...

Quote:

Got bore lights but nothing that small to do the job with.

That one is easy. Just go to Wal-Mart and buy a "Bobber" light. It's about 3/32" diameter and will last you a long time.

Be Safe !!!

Sure Shot Mc Gee · September 17, 2013, 01:59 PM

Piece a cake for the bobber light. Grocery shopping day tomorrow. Shop at the place with those so called falling prices too. Thanks for the Tip Sir.

I tried using my mag light but I just can't get it to shine deep enough. R-R goes in all the way in where its suppose too.{flush with the barrel muzzle when the rod is bottomed out} But its hard to pull out without a struggle. I was thinking of sanding the R-R some but all that leads to is a weakened Rod. I thinks its made of pine. Certainly not out of any hard wood that's for sure.

PM inbound to you . Hopefully you don't mind Pahoo.

robhof · September 17, 2013, 05:00 PM

Before investing in a drill bit, you might just chuck a dowel slightly smaller in diameter or a shotgun cleaning rod and tape on some sandpaper rolled on to fit snug and work it up and down the length a few times, start with medium grit and work down to fine. I used this technique on a kit gun a Hawkins that had a very rough channel and after a few passes it slid fine.

Captchee · September 17, 2013, 05:05 PM

first if the rod is pine , which i doubt , it wont be the original rod . the original TC rod will be eather hickory " not good quality " or it will be ramin.

sanding the rod wont really weaken it in fact alot of original rifle rods were tapered . they also were not perfectly strait . this alowed the bow to actualy hold the rod one the rifle without the use of a spring retainer .

now this is just my oppenion but i would think that more then likly your stock was eather flood finished and thus the finish has narrowed the the hole or it wasnt finished inside "common" and the wood has swelled alittle and narrowed the hole .

so you can do a couple things .
a) sand your ramrod
b) use a ram rod hole scraper and open up the hole alittle
c) use a slightly larger drill and open the hole up alittle .

while you can use a electricians drill , its not really proper for the job and can end up running off .
since your rifle is a half stock , you could get a standard 28 inch drill bit and use that . Home depo carries them as does harbor frieght .

OR you could use and actual RR drill or make your own from bar stock

redneck · September 17, 2013, 05:40 PM

Get a slight smaller diameter dowel rod and cut a slit in the end of it. Slip a piece of sandpaper in the slit so that it has a flap out one side long enough to wrap around the dowel. Spin it with a cordless drill and carefully run it in and out of the channel.

Pahoo · September 17, 2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

so you can do a couple things .
a) sand your ramrod
b) use a ram rod hole scraper and open up the hole alittle
c) use a slightly larger drill and open the hole up alittle .

A) should not have to, if you have a good rod. ....

B) What caliber as the .50 is too big; .45 or maybe .36. ???
C) You need to first define where the problem is.

The early TC Ramrods were Hickory and after that, they went through many other materials but "never" pine or any secondary hardwoods. I love the old straight-grained Hickory that has been tempered but it's still wood and ya just can't trust them. ....

Quote:

Get a slight smaller diameter dowel rod and cut a slit in the end of it. Slip a piece of sandpaper in the slit so that it has a flap out one side long enough to wrap around the dowel. Spin it with a cordless drill and carefully run it in and out of the channel.

That'll work, as needed ....

Be Safe !!!

Sure Shot Mc Gee · September 17, 2013, 07:50 PM

Typical 54 cal w/1-48 twist. Barrel length: What are they maybe 27" long.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego.../555/1/AAM-180

Captchee · September 18, 2013, 09:29 AM

your right Pahoo you should not have to .
but the simple fact is that in alot of cases you do . its wood and wood swells and shrinks.
if the stock was even little on the high side of % of moisture when the RR hole was drilled , that hole will also be a little smaller then what was planned . add in a lacquered rod and things can get to tight quick .
Same goes for alittle dirt or grim , if it gets down in there .
If it goes in and out with resistance , its not going to take a lot . Most likely just a few passes with 150 or 200 grit would probably do it
No need to make things more complicated then it really is

Has nothing to do with a good rod or not . It has to do with the fit of the rod and if it fit’s the hole . A very good hickory rod , that’s been properly chosen and finished will be much stronger and limber then a poor one . Of that there is no doubt . But its still wood and thus will do what wood does . Not to also mention if its not properly fit for the hole , its still going to be to tight .

As I said , a lot of the original rifle loading rods were tapered not strait as they often are today . In some cases depending on the gun , they could be drastically tapered like those on fowling pieces.
I now and then still make custom rods as well . but most i make now are eather made of rose wood or ebony for high end guns .
every now and then someone will ask for a good hand made hickory rod for something or the metal cored loading rods

So it still comes down to two choices. He is either going to have to enlarge the hole which would include cleaning out anything that maybe wedged down in there OR reduce the size of the rod .

yes making a simple sanding rod will also work .
keep in mind though that sanding also tears the grain of the wood and thus makes it more subject to moisture and swelling . thats one of the resons i chose to use a scraper vs sanding paper when i can .

but again he probably doesnt need to take all that much off so a couple passes with a flapper would also probably do it . just move it in and out with a steady motion . be carful becouse if your set up is to lose , the paper can wad up , come off or jam itself down in the hole and then you will have to get that out of there

Sure Shot Mc Gee · September 18, 2013, 09:14 PM

Well I took Pahoo's advice.
I went scouted out one of those lighted fishing bobbers at our local W/W this AM. I bought the only'est one left. (w/ a red color light) Anyway. After a look see down the Ram Rods Barrel Channel with the help of that nifty light. I could actually see its channel drill swirl marks quite well. A little more inspection on my part. I found this: The barrel itself has a slight tip at its muzzle end. Which I believe causes its barrel thimbles to force-ably offset its R-Rods entrance into its channel. I notice that issue going on when the barrel was wedged in-place. Thus I then think about 1/2 way down its channel from the R-Rs fully seating. That ever so slight offset angle has its utmost effect on the R-R itself. As the R-R starts to bind or get more than a bit too snug. {its R-R seems to bind more & more as its pushed towards its stop.} More than this shooter would like to have.
I checked its Tang and its fitted flush with its stock. I checked its barrel installation. Its hexagons almost match those of its Tang. And there's very little gap seen between the breech plug and its Tang also. So there you have it. What do you fellows think? Is there a resolve? or perhaps what was commented previously applies?

BTW: this is a T/C Rd-ball Barrel only 1 X 66 >54 Cal. (above^).

FWIW.{This Ball Barrel isn't the original barrel for this Renegade's stock.}
As always. Any and all comments are welcome.

September 17, 2013, 07:46 AM	#1
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Ram Rod channel repair Got a 54 T/C renegade here. I notice it has a overly tight ram rod channel. Or perhaps a little warp'ness or something going on in there. Just how do you fellows go about resolving that kind of circumstance?

September 17, 2013, 10:40 AM	#3
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	First the practicles, then particulars. Sure Shot Doesn't it stand to reason that if your stock was warped enough to restrict your rod, that you will also see effect in the barrel channel? Check your ramrod channel for any obstructions. I have a bore light that will illuminate the entire channel but seldom have to use it. Then you can eliminate the effect of the ramrod retainer clip. There are a couple of ways you can do this and removing the barrel would be my first pass. This is the small clip that is mounted on the under-barrel rib, breech end. You may choose to temporarily remove it. Some of these can be very tight. If you choose to bend your clip, be very careful and they can break at the mounting hole. Next pass is to check your ramrod for warpage, visually or spinning it on your fingers. Not doubting you but in all the years of working on these, I have never had to redrill a ramrod channel. As far as ramrod diameter, it should be, 3/8" Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing. Last edited by Pahoo; September 17, 2013 at 10:51 AM.

September 17, 2013, 11:02 AM	#4
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Ramrods I refurbish and rebuild, old school ramrods. The best will always be made of hickory. I have made some out of Honey Locust and they are gorgeous. They are also hard to work with and tend to warp. There are other materials; plastics, polys and fiber glass but hickory is the best for Old-School SideLocks. Ramrod tip OD's should transition smoothly onto the OD of the rod so as not to hang up on the clips and channel. ..... Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

September 17, 2013, 05:00 PM	#8
robhof Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2007 Posts: 712	robhof Before investing in a drill bit, you might just chuck a dowel slightly smaller in diameter or a shotgun cleaning rod and tape on some sandpaper rolled on to fit snug and work it up and down the length a few times, start with medium grit and work down to fine. I used this technique on a kit gun a Hawkins that had a very rough channel and after a few passes it slid fine.

September 17, 2013, 05:40 PM	#10
redneck Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2001 Location: Ohio Posts: 364	Get a slight smaller diameter dowel rod and cut a slit in the end of it. Slip a piece of sandpaper in the slit so that it has a flap out one side long enough to wrap around the dowel. Spin it with a cordless drill and carefully run it in and out of the channel. __________________ Fix it right the first time... Use Baling Wire !

September 17, 2013, 10:15 AM	#2
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	. If the bind is in the wood, and not the thimbles, I'd pull the barrel & look down the hole with a good light first, incase there's a piece of cleaning patch or something else that shouldn't be there, before running a hand-held long drill bit of the appropriate diameter down the channel, like a reamer. I disremember if T/C has a RR tension/retention leaf spring in there - if so, the leaf might be twisted from getting caught by a cleaning jag. Does the rifle have the correct size RR ? (diameter) .

September 17, 2013, 01:59 PM	#7
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Piece a cake for the bobber light. Grocery shopping day tomorrow. Shop at the place with those so called falling prices too. Thanks for the Tip Sir. I tried using my mag light but I just can't get it to shine deep enough. R-R goes in all the way in where its suppose too.{flush with the barrel muzzle when the rod is bottomed out} But its hard to pull out without a struggle. I was thinking of sanding the R-R some but all that leads to is a weakened Rod. I thinks its made of pine. Certainly not out of any hard wood that's for sure. PM inbound to you . Hopefully you don't mind Pahoo.

September 17, 2013, 05:05 PM	#9
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	first if the rod is pine , which i doubt , it wont be the original rod . the original TC rod will be eather hickory " not good quality " or it will be ramin. sanding the rod wont really weaken it in fact alot of original rifle rods were tapered . they also were not perfectly strait . this alowed the bow to actualy hold the rod one the rifle without the use of a spring retainer . now this is just my oppenion but i would think that more then likly your stock was eather flood finished and thus the finish has narrowed the the hole or it wasnt finished inside "common" and the wood has swelled alittle and narrowed the hole . so you can do a couple things . a) sand your ramrod b) use a ram rod hole scraper and open up the hole alittle c) use a slightly larger drill and open the hole up alittle . while you can use a electricians drill , its not really proper for the job and can end up running off . since your rifle is a half stock , you could get a standard 28 inch drill bit and use that . Home depo carries them as does harbor frieght . OR you could use and actual RR drill or make your own from bar stock

September 17, 2013, 07:50 PM	#12
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Typical 54 cal w/1-48 twist. Barrel length: What are they maybe 27" long. http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego.../555/1/AAM-180

September 18, 2013, 09:29 AM	#13
Captchee Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2013 Posts: 439	your right Pahoo you should not have to . but the simple fact is that in alot of cases you do . its wood and wood swells and shrinks. if the stock was even little on the high side of % of moisture when the RR hole was drilled , that hole will also be a little smaller then what was planned . add in a lacquered rod and things can get to tight quick . Same goes for alittle dirt or grim , if it gets down in there . If it goes in and out with resistance , its not going to take a lot . Most likely just a few passes with 150 or 200 grit would probably do it No need to make things more complicated then it really is Has nothing to do with a good rod or not . It has to do with the fit of the rod and if it fit’s the hole . A very good hickory rod , that’s been properly chosen and finished will be much stronger and limber then a poor one . Of that there is no doubt . But its still wood and thus will do what wood does . Not to also mention if its not properly fit for the hole , its still going to be to tight . As I said , a lot of the original rifle loading rods were tapered not strait as they often are today . In some cases depending on the gun , they could be drastically tapered like those on fowling pieces. I now and then still make custom rods as well . but most i make now are eather made of rose wood or ebony for high end guns . every now and then someone will ask for a good hand made hickory rod for something or the metal cored loading rods So it still comes down to two choices. He is either going to have to enlarge the hole which would include cleaning out anything that maybe wedged down in there OR reduce the size of the rod . yes making a simple sanding rod will also work . keep in mind though that sanding also tears the grain of the wood and thus makes it more subject to moisture and swelling . thats one of the resons i chose to use a scraper vs sanding paper when i can . but again he probably doesnt need to take all that much off so a couple passes with a flapper would also probably do it . just move it in and out with a steady motion . be carful becouse if your set up is to lose , the paper can wad up , come off or jam itself down in the hole and then you will have to get that out of there Last edited by Captchee; September 18, 2013 at 09:42 AM.

September 18, 2013, 09:14 PM	#14
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Well I took Pahoo's advice. I went scouted out one of those lighted fishing bobbers at our local W/W this AM. I bought the only'est one left. (w/ a red color light) Anyway. After a look see down the Ram Rods Barrel Channel with the help of that nifty light. I could actually see its channel drill swirl marks quite well. A little more inspection on my part. I found this: The barrel itself has a slight tip at its muzzle end. Which I believe causes its barrel thimbles to force-ably offset its R-Rods entrance into its channel. I notice that issue going on when the barrel was wedged in-place. Thus I then think about 1/2 way down its channel from the R-Rs fully seating. That ever so slight offset angle has its utmost effect on the R-R itself. As the R-R starts to bind or get more than a bit too snug. {its R-R seems to bind more & more as its pushed towards its stop.} More than this shooter would like to have. I checked its Tang and its fitted flush with its stock. I checked its barrel installation. Its hexagons almost match those of its Tang. And there's very little gap seen between the breech plug and its Tang also. So there you have it. What do you fellows think? Is there a resolve? or perhaps what was commented previously applies? BTW: this is a T/C Rd-ball Barrel only 1 X 66 >54 Cal. (above^). FWIW.{This Ball Barrel isn't the original barrel for this Renegade's stock.} As always. Any and all comments are welcome.