The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old January 8, 2012, 10:29 PM   #1
PhilTheClimber
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2012
Posts: 6
Thinking of starting into c&b

I'm thinking of starting into the cap and ball world. I have a few modern pistols and rifles but am looking for more of a hobby (boy does .40 and .357 ammo get expensive) than a self defense weapon now. I like the idea of being able to use a conversion cylinder as well if I choose, but also the idea of loading black powder. Having shot only double action with a rifled barrel before, I thought I would ask for some opinions on the pistols I am thinking of.

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/16893-1.html#Reviews
an 1851 traditions in .44

and
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...roducts_id=879
a pietta 1873 in .44

and
http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product...oducts_id=1024
an uberti 1849 pocket in .31 cal

Thanks in advance.
PhilTheClimber is offline  
Old January 8, 2012, 10:50 PM   #2
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Look at the Pietta's from Cabela's. http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/brows...3Bcat104701680


The .44 caliber 51 isn't historically correct for caliber or barrel length if that means anything to you. The Pietta 73, also historically inaccurate will have to be loaded on a loading stand and the .31 is a good little gun if you want a small short range caliber.
Hawg is offline  
Old January 8, 2012, 10:54 PM   #3
freedom475
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2008
Location: Rocky Mountains of Montana
Posts: 292
Good for you!! The BP revolver is a great way to get back to the heart and soul of shooting.

I'll say you have good taste....but the first thing to consider is the source..the 1st one you listed has (in big red letters) Non-Returnable ther just telling you right up front that they don't trust there product quality enough to stand behind it. I would not buy from anyone like that. NO WAY! NOT A CHANCE!...buy from Cabela's, there return policy makes this a very rewarding, worry free, with out gamble purchase.

Your first 51 pictured is a fun gun..the short loading ram can make them a little tough to load, but not bad.

The 73 is great look, but it is not a colt peacemaker so you cannot load the cylinder (if you ever needed to) with the gun..(it has to be removed and loaded with a special loading stand).

The 49 pocket is a supper fun little gun...but kind of a novelty...I really like mine, but it sure wouldn't be my first recomendation.

I suggest the Remington58 in 44 or 36cal...these are just too easy to use, supper fast to load, extra cylinders are a breeze to swap. And the Rem58 (in 44cal) is probly the best one to buy if you plan to try a conversion cylinder in the future
__________________
Maker of Horse Tack and Cowboy Gear.
www.7xleather.com

Mister, why do you carry a 45? "Cause Sam Colt don't make a 46."
freedom475 is offline  
Old January 8, 2012, 11:44 PM   #4
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 2,113
If you are wanting to get started in C&Bs and think you'll want to use a conversion cylinder also, your best bet would be to buy a steel framed .44 caliber Remington copy. R&D and Kirst both make drop in conversion cylinders in .45 Colt. You do not want to buy a Colt style revolver and conversion cylinder because of having to disassemble the revolver to reload. You don't want a .36 caliber revolver because of the difference between the C&B round (.375) and the cartridge round (.357). You'd have to use hollow based bullets with the conversion cylinder or reline the barrel to .357 which would make it unuseable as a C&B. You also do not want a brass framed revolver because conversion cylinders are not to be used with brass frames.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 12:21 AM   #5
deerslayer303
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2011
Location: Leesville SC
Posts: 2,652
I just started out too. I haven't even fired one ball yet. I have a Uberi 1858 44 Remington New Army, 1858 Remington .44 Pietta (Brass Frame, wall hanger but I will shoot it a few times), and a Ruger Old Army (not a copy of anything, more along the lines of a Blackhawk). Its a neat hobby so far, much more interesting than the cartridge guns (imho of course). Go for it, pick out one you like and pull the trigger! pun intended!

Take Care
deerslayer303 is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 05:57 AM   #6
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 5,440
Phil

Welcome to the congregation.

You came to the right place and you are doing the right thing by carefully considering which way to go.
__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 01:01 PM   #7
PhilTheClimber
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2012
Posts: 6
thanks for all the suggestions so far.

I've looked at a few 1858s, and I really like this one http://www.midwayusa.com/product/122...-2-blue-barrel and also the one in stainless steel.

I'm going to the gun show this weekend, what are some things I should look for in person? Are there any brands with low quality to steer away from?
PhilTheClimber is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 01:10 PM   #8
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 5,440
Gun shows are funny things....

....You can get good deals at gun shows but you have to be careful.

It is my recent experience that prices at gunshows here in Southeastern VA have been out of line.

If you are looking at a Colt clone, the vendor should not hve any problem with taking the barrel off to make sure the arbor is not loose.

You are going to want to look for evidence that the pistol is what the vendor is reporting.

You can generally tell if a pistol have been fired or if it has been well cared for.

A brass frame Colt revolver should sell at a gunshow for 100.00. A steel frame Colt should go for about 150.00. Brass frame remington should be about 100.00 to 125.00. Steel frame remington should fetch 150.00 to 160.00.

Of course extras add to the value. Not uncommon to encounter a revolver that has a bunch of stuff along with it.

There are specialties that get higher prices. Colt 2nd and 3rd gen pistols are much higher as are the Belgian 1960 NMA. Rugers in good condition go for 400.00 to 500.00.

I would stay away from revolvers in less than average condition because of the bother and expense to get them shooting right.
__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 01:14 PM   #9
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Unless you just want a Uberti you can get the same gun made by Pietta from Cabela's for 229 but it is on backorder. http://www.cabelas.com/product/Shoot...3Bcat104503680

Pietta and Uberti are the best followed by ASP(euroarms). ASM has a spotty rep. Those are the most likely ones you will see. CVA, Traditions, Taylors, Navy Arms, etc. are all importers, not manufacturers.
Hawg is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 01:15 PM   #10
Fingers McGee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: High & Dry in Missouri Ozarks
Posts: 2,113
Currently made Piettas and Ubertis are about equal in quality; but, they do not feel the same in the hand due to differences in frame size and shape. Try some of each before you decide. I'd steer clear of any Armi San Marco revolvers. They are no longer made & parts are almost impossible to get.

Do some pricing research. Check Buffalo Arms, Cabelas, Taylor's, and others so you'll know what a good deal looks like at the gunshow.
__________________
Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee - AKA Man of Many Colts - Alter ego of Diabolical Ken; SASS Regulator 28564-L-TG; Rangemaster and stage writer extraordinaire; Frontiersman, Pistoleer, NRA Endowment Life, NMLRA, SAF, CCRKBA, STORM 327, SV115; Charter member, Central Ozarks Western Shooters
Cynic: A blackguard whose faulty vision see things as they are, not as they should be. Ambrose Bierce
Fingers McGee is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 09:36 PM   #11
PhilTheClimber
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2012
Posts: 6
Thanks again for all the knowledgeable replies.

Onto my next set of questions! I have shot cheap guns and used cheap tools before, I'm going to avoid anything but pietta or uberti, with preference towards the later as it is my understanding they are manufactured by beretta.

Will the gun show have quality conversion cylinders or should I wait to purchase one from a reputable vendor, one I can track down for any needed support?

How should I check the action of a single action to ensure it is working properly, what are some common problems I could look out for?
PhilTheClimber is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 09:47 PM   #12
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Quote:
it is my understanding they are manufactured by beretta.
Owned by, not made by.
Hawg is offline  
Old January 9, 2012, 10:04 PM   #13
PhilTheClimber
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2012
Posts: 6
well now i'm just more confused o.O
PhilTheClimber is offline  
Old January 10, 2012, 12:40 AM   #14
OutlawJoseyWales
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 237
Don't worry Phil,
it just takes a while. The world of B.P. is an alternate universe to other firearms. No need to even be in a hurry, these guns have been around for over 150 years, they are not going anywhere fast.
Well, that is...maybe the deals at Cabela's go fast, but the gun knowledge takes a little while. Just keep reading, it's wonderful fun.

I started out a couple of years ago with an amazing deal at Cabela's-$119 brass model 1851 in .44 (a caliber the orginal 1851's were never made in).
Although the .44 cal. brass models pretend to be Confederate-styled arms, they are not. But, they are a whole lot of fun.

My 2nd was a Remmy with 2 extra cylinders that I got on Gunbrokers.
That just made me worse and I had to keep snapping them up.

Warning: Once you start buying them, you cannot stop. You'll want at least one of every model and caliber, maybe more than one.
OutlawJoseyWales is offline  
Old January 10, 2012, 06:44 AM   #15
deerslayer303
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2011
Location: Leesville SC
Posts: 2,652
Quote:
Warning: Once you start buying them, you cannot stop. You'll want at least one of every model and caliber, maybe more than one.
Very True Indeed.

I have looked at them both side by side, they do feel different in your hand but both seem to be quality guns ( Pietta and Uberti). I don't think I will discriminate between the two. I plan to do just what Outlaw said one maybe more of each. I just don't really see a reason to buy a used one since new ones can be had for maybe 50 bucks more! Retailers that is. Just my .02.
deerslayer303 is offline  
Old January 10, 2012, 07:22 AM   #16
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 5,440
OutlawJoseyWales + 1

Once you have your first revolver and have done a little shooting, you begin to have fun just going through the learning process.

I have never called BP shooting a "hobby" because I think it is somewhat of an insult to reduce the way of life to the level of a "hobby"

I think of it as more of a lifestyle. The reason I use that term is because there is an awful lot to learn and the learning continues even into the advanced phases of the lifestyle. Those of us who have been shooting for a long period of time, or over a long span of time (whch is more descriptive of me since there was a long hiatus during my shooting) are still learning. There is a perfect parallel between the way we develop our shooting life and the way people develop in a non-shooting life.

There are simply too many aspects associated with the way of life to refer to it as a "hobby".

Please understand that I am not reacting because I saw or read someone refering to the lifestyle as a "hobby". I don't recall reading that. This is merely an attempt to prepare a new entrant to the breadth of opportunities.
__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old January 10, 2012, 11:21 AM   #17
deerslayer303
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2011
Location: Leesville SC
Posts: 2,652
" I just don't really see a reason to buy a used one since new ones can be had for maybe 50 bucks more! Retailers that is. Just my .02."

I have to take this statement back. Reason being I got to thinking about this, unless the owner is dedicated, I think it would be safe to say that alot of these C&B guns probably don't see much shooting vs a cartridge gun. The reason I say this. My local gun shop has two Pietta 1851 Navy .36's in there for 149 And a few '58 ASM's. The '51's are great looking guns too with the case hardened looking frames. And none of them look to have much if any wear and tear on them. Or maybe its because these things are like a small block chevy, will take MANY licks and keep on ticking.
deerslayer303 is offline  
Old January 10, 2012, 02:46 PM   #18
OutlawJoseyWales
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 18, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 237
deerslayer,
a steel .51 in great condition for $149 no shipping is a very good deal.
Haha, where did you say this place was?

You are right about the prices though, new ones are not much more than used ones, IF (big if) the revolver you want is actually on sale.
For those certain caliber or model that isn't common, you are either going to have to pay premium prices or find them on gunbroker.

The big joke is that there are just fools (or maybe the buyer would BE the fool) on there selling worn out pieces of brass junk as if it's some kind of "collectors" item. Just plain crooked.
But, if you keep fishing on there, you'll catch a deal every once in a while that's awesome. Case in point, my 2nd revolver was a steel target model Pietta Remmy with 2 extra cylinders (3 total) in perfect condition for $190 shipped. I was so new that I didn't know it was a steal.
I know better now and would love to catch another deal like that one.

OJW
OutlawJoseyWales is offline  
Old January 10, 2012, 04:17 PM   #19
PhilTheClimber
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2012
Posts: 6
I referred to it as a hobby in my original post, no offense intended. I don't mind some ribbing either.

I will probably purchase a new revolver at the gun show if one is available. I've always had expensive taste, so I was just wondering if you were looking at one what would you inspect?

I understand what's been said about once you have one, it tends to get out of hand. You should see all the chainsaws I have for work.
PhilTheClimber is offline  
Old January 11, 2012, 11:00 AM   #20
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 5,440
Oh.....Okay

I didn't catch that Phil, and did not mean to leave you with the impression that I was criticizing.

I sometimes grouse at things but your post was certainly not one of them.

I grouse when folks call our revolvers, "guns".

That term is reserved for ordnance of one inch or higher caliber afixed to the decks of warships.


You Navy folks will agree I am sure.

__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Old January 11, 2012, 11:21 AM   #21
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 16,177
Doc, I wasn't in the navy so.
Hawg is offline  
Old January 11, 2012, 12:30 PM   #22
arcticap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2005
Location: Central Connecticut
Posts: 3,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Hoy
I grouse when folks call our revolvers, "guns".
That's probably me Doc since I tend to call anything that will shoot a gun (there's less typing that way! )
Looking up the definition of the word gun I see that it includes these:

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/gun

Quote:
1. A weapon consisting of a metal tube from which a projectile is fired at high velocity into a relatively flat trajectory.
and

Quote:
1. (Military / Firearms, Gunnery, Ordnance & Artillery)
a. a weapon with a metallic tube or barrel from which a missile is discharged, usually by force of an explosion. It may be portable or mounted. In a military context the term applies specifically to a flat-trajectory artillery piece
I'll probably end up sticking to my guns & verbiage too!

Quote:
stick to one's guns
Informal to maintain one's opinions or intentions in spite of opposition

Last edited by arcticap; January 11, 2012 at 12:38 PM.
arcticap is offline  
Old January 11, 2012, 01:18 PM   #23
LeadZinger
Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2011
Posts: 47
You have already gotten a lot of good information here. I can only add my own experience with getting started a couple of years ago.

First I had to decide if I wanted historically accurate revolvers or just something with which to shoot BP. Being a history buff I chose historical. The Uberti line tends to be more historically accurate, produces a quality modern product and is usually more expensive. I chose a '51 Navy Colt, steel framed, 36 cal., for my [U]first[U], mainly for its looks and fact that it was in production longer than any other revolver during the percusssion era.

If you think you might want to use a conversion cylinder at some point then definetly go with a steel framed 44 cal, preferably the Remington New Army for the reason already given. This is the cheapest way, but only slightly, of shooting cartridge in a BP pistol. Keep in mind that you are limited to black powder loads and they can be both difficult and expensive to find, unless you do reloading. An alternative is buy another revolver, a cartridge factory conversion which Colt and Remington offered in the 1870's. Uberti and Pietta make them also. The advantage is that they will actually handle modern factory made ammunition. Stick with 38 Spl or 44 Spl if you go this route, although 45 cal is available. See how easy it is to start adding to your collection?

At the end of a year, if you can count your BP inventory on one hand then please do a post telling the rest of us how you avoided the addiction. It would save us all a lot of money.
LeadZinger is offline  
Old January 11, 2012, 04:43 PM   #24
PhilTheClimber
Junior Member
 
Join Date: January 8, 2012
Posts: 6
I'll remember to call'em guns next time too

What about cimarron firearms, are they good quality?

Also, someone mentioned before about having to disassemble an 1851 w/ conversion cylinder to reload, where as this isn't the case with an 1858. Could someone point me in the direction to learn more about this?
PhilTheClimber is offline  
Old January 11, 2012, 05:06 PM   #25
Doc Hoy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Naples, Fl
Posts: 5,440
Okay...Okay.

I surrender.
__________________
Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.
Doc Hoy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11240 seconds with 8 queries