Need a hi-cap 9mm "car gun" (cheap)

[johnwilliamson062]

I'll add that the Hipoint ghost ring sight was amazing for me. I might not want it from a traditional holster with a cover garment where it could get snagged, but, from a kydex holster in a glove compartment or small vault, it would be great. A couple extra magazines in a single stack really doesn't give up all that much over a double, especially when you don't actually need to carry them.

[Captains1911]

Easy access to a criminal? Are you serious? Someone is going to break into your car to steal your stuff and it's your fault for leaving something in your locked car? By all means, take it inside if you park on the street at night but don't go unarmed to avoid being a victim. It just makes no sense. If your gun is stolen, report it to the police. Don't let anyone tell you you are responsible for the actions of bad people.

Absolutely serious. It's no secret that criminals steal guns from cars. Knowing this, why would any responsible person permanently store one there anyway, especially when it won't do you any good should you need it? This should be common sense, but you know what they say....

[Bill DeShivs]

Criminals steal guns from homes, too.

[johnwilliamson062]

And if on body carry isn't possible or practical, as in many places, my car is the next best place for a gun to be. Far more likely to be close at hand then in a safe at home.

[Captains1911]

Criminals steal guns from homes, too.

Not at even close to the same rate. Not even close.

[DanPop]

I recently bought a EEA SAR k2p 9mm from CDNN.com for $279, this gun is so underrated, 17+1 capacity, low recoil, super comfortable grip, smooth trigger, adjustable sights and just a beautiful gun. It's not a ccw weapon but it is a compact. The only gripe is that it comes with just 1 mag, being a cz clone a second mag is easy to grab for around $30.

Click link below to see a beautiful gun.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...2p&FORM=HDRSC2

[Captains1911]

And if on body carry isn't possible or practical, as in many places, my car is the next best place for a gun to be. Far more likely to be close at hand then in a safe at home.

In a safe at home or 10 feet away might as well be the same when you need it RIGHT NOW. Far too many people make the dangerous mistake of assuming they know what their self defense encounter wil look like. In reality they occur extremely fast, and if the tool is not on the person, they usually don't have time to retrieve it. That's just the way things typically unfold. Don't operate under the assumption that you'll be able to magically pause time or that the bad guy will allow you to run to your car to grab your gun before he proceeds...

[MikeRussell]

" It's no secret that criminals steal guns from cars. Knowing this, why would any responsible person permanently store one there anyway, especially when it won't do you any good should you need it? This should be common sense, but you know what they say...."

Just playing Devil's Advocate...

It's no secret that criminals steal money from people on the street (aka mugging). Knowing this, why would any responsible person carry cash on their person.

It's no secret that criminals steal credit card info from scanners...why would any responsible person use a credit card to purchase items.

The answer is same to all three, reasonable expectation of security. You should expect that your car's contents and your wallet's contents would be safe (and a large percentage of the time they are). If we sink to the lowest common denominator, we'd expect everyone we ever see is a criminal and thus we'd never get anything accomplished, always living on edge or in fear. However, this sword bites both ways (for this argument)...if we have reasonable expectation of security, then why would anyone ever carry a gun that is not LEO/Military.

So, we have to accept that there is some grey area and that what works for some is not what works for others, and we cannot place blame upon the victim but rather where it belongs, with the criminal. Until we get out of the cycle of blaming the victims (the true victims, not those that would portray themselves as such) and blame the criminal for the actions we'll be at odds with this (il)logical circle jerk.

[Captains1911]

^The differnce is stolen money or credit cards doesn't pose a serious safety risk to innocent people. Big difference.

Part of being a responsible gun owner is properly storing and securing your guns, and doing everything you can to keep them out of the hands of unauthorized users. Habitually storing a firearm in an unattended vehicle does not meet this standard.

[DA/SA Fan]

In a safe at home or 10 feet away might as well be the same when you need it RIGHT NOW. Far too many people make the dangerous mistake of assuming they know what their self defense encounter wil look like. In reality they occur extremely fast, and if the tool is not on the person, they usually don't have time to retrieve it. That's just the way things typically unfold. Don't operate under the assumption that you'll be able to magically pause time or that the bad guy will allow you to run to your car to grab your gun before he proceeds...

In the car it's right next to you. If you have a ccw you have it on you when you're out of the car. If you don't have a ccw you're SOL once you're out of the car. The purpose of a car gun is for "in the car" not a replacement for a ccw holster.

And I guess you're with Hillary then. Sue the gun manufacturers because they allowed a bad person to use their dangerous product. It's mot the criminal's fault.

[MikeRussell]

The differnce is stolen money or credit cards doesn't pose a serious safety risk to innocent people. Big difference.

Part of being a responsible gun owner is properly storing and securing your guns, and doing everything you can to keep them out of the hands of unauthorized users. Habitually storing a firearm in an unattended vehicle does not meet this standard.

Again, Devil's Advocate...

Stolen money can easily purchase weapons. Yes, it adds a step and takes away immediate potential threat, but the threat is still there.

Also, storing a gun in a lockbox in a car is only slightly less secure than storing one in a gunsafe at your house. Just to elaborate...
--cars are in the open, risk of detection is greater (though a car can potentially be stolen and taken to an alternate location for picking clean).
--homes, once entered, offer greater concealment and time (if the thieves have observed the owners and aren't working on a whim) to work inside the house
--gun safes aren't secure as people believe. Against crowbars and picks? yes. Against other methods (which can be easily learned via the internet), not so much. I could break into my own safe in a matter of less than a minute with nothing more than aluminum, rust, a sparkler, and (if I cared about collateral damage) a CO2 fire extinguisher.

So, (still in D'sA mode), are you ever really secure? Or do we fall back to the "reasonable expectation" clause?

I don't remember anyone saying leaving a firearm out in open sight to tempt those less honest than others, so we're not talking about the casual observer noticing the firearm...that means the person would find it out of dumb luck or the owner is being watched/targeted (this scenario is based upon the owner not securing the firearm, just leaving it under the seat and in a rapid break in, grab, & run).

Just giving food for thought here (via the Devil's Advocate approach), so instead of doing a "that's wrong, you're an idiot for doing so" thread, perhaps we can discuss and future members (or those just lurking) see multiple trains of thought and come to intelligent decisions.

[herdman]

If you are carrying concealed and you approach a business that has the no gun sign then you really have two choices: 1)Carry it in there anyway, against the law. 2)Go back and put in the car.

There are times you cannot avoid putting it in the car.

[Captains1911]

If you are carrying concealed and you approach a business that has the no gun sign then you really have two choices: 1)Carry it in there anyway, against the law. 2)Go back and put in the car.

There are times you cannot avoid pu

That's different from having a dedicated "car gun" that is stored permanently in the vehicle, which is what I believe the OP is talking about.

[Captains1911]

still there.

Also, storing a gun in a lockbox in a car is only slightly less secure than storing one in a gunsafe at your house. Just to elaborate...
--cars are in the open, risk of detection is greater (though a car can potentially be stolen and taken to an alternate location for picking clean).
--homes, once entered, offer greater concealment and time (if the thieves have observed the owners and aren't working on a whim) to work inside the house
--gun safes aren't secure as people believe. Against crowbars and picks? yes. Against other methods (which can be easily learned via the internet), not so much. I could break into my own safe in a matter of less than a minute with nothing more than aluminum, rust, a sparkler, and (if I cared about collateral damage) a CO2 fire extinguisher.

Again, cars are burglarized at a much higher rate than houses, just look at the statistics.

[Captains1911]

And I guess you're with Hillary then. Sue the gun manufacturers because they allowed a bad person to use their dangerous product. It's mot the criminal's fault.

Asking people to be responsible, and suggesting lawsuits be brought against people for the actions of others, are two entirely different things.

[DA/SA Fan]

Seems like everything "is" just because you say so. This is pointless. You win. Anyone employing a car gun is the equivalent of a criminal because the captain sez.

[kilimanjaro]

Leaving a firearm in your car is not a sound practice. Either carry it or lock it up in the trunk when you leave it.

Spare us the 'criminals are responsible, I'm not responsible' fairy tale. That's a lame excuse fit for some pimply-faced teenager that got caught by the old man sneaking smokes out of his pack of Marlboros, not adults aware of the consequences of their actions.

You deliberately leave a lethal weapon in a vehicle, then park it outside of a locked garage where any thief can steal your car in under 60 seconds, gaining access to a loaded weapon, you are responsible. You didn't leave it in your car because there was a sign on the door of the business you had to visit that day, you left it there because you chose to leave it there permanently. You are responsible, don't try and weasel your way out of it.

[MikeRussell]

Spare us the 'criminals are responsible, I'm not responsible' fairy tale. That's a lame excuse fit for some pimply-faced teenager that got caught by the old man sneaking smokes out of his pack of Marlboros, not adults aware of the consequences of their actions.

Ummm...yes, the teenager would use the excuse because in that situation he is the "criminal" (stealing cigarettes that were left out), not taking responsibility for his actions (stealing) and blaming someone that left them out/in a cabinet/on top of the fridge (because teens, well all kids really, will go to great lengths to do things they're not supposed just to rebel).

where any thief can steal your car in under 60 seconds

Not sure what you drive, but unless a thief has a scanner and a cloner, they're not stealing my vehicle. And at that point, they're a professional (not an average thief) and I've been targeted....and lax in my persec because I didn't notice and take proper precautions. Now, for the comment as a whole (and the above was written with some jest, not malice)...

You deliberately leave a lethal weapon in a vehicle, then park it outside of a locked garage where any thief can steal your car in under 60 seconds, gaining access to a loaded weapon, you are responsible. You didn't leave it in your car because there was a sign on the door of the business you had to visit that day, you left it there because you chose to leave it there permanently. You are responsible, don't try and weasel your way out of it.

This is the equivalent to the "you deserved to get raped" statement, when talking about women getting raped because they dressed provocatively. Sorry, but it is a direct correlation and wouldn't have called you on it in such a manner if you weren't rather dickish in your response.

If you hadn't (dressed scantily, left a gun in your vehicle, worn that expensive watch) you wouldn't have (gotten raped, gotten someone shot, gotten mugged). Those are ways of making excuses for the criminals and their actions, equating the victims of crimes as enablers of those crimes/criminals. You can't have it one way and not the other.

[MikeRussell]

Again, cars are burglarized at a much higher rate than houses, just look at the statistics.


Yes, more cars on the road than houses on property, so the numbers would definitely be higher. Back to Devil's Advocate now...

However, do you live your life in fear every day? I mean, there are more fatal traffic accidents/incidents than shootings...do you stay home rather than chance it? Do not give your child the keys to the car when they are old enough and licensed to drive...after all, they make up the majority of accidents.

Or on another approach...do you practice martial arts, train mentally and physically, and maintain a high level of situational awareness every day? I mean, carrying a pistol on your person, you could get mugged and your pistol taken, because the criminal got the drop on you. Didn't you just enable them as well? Your holster provides less security under your shirt than hidden in a lockbox in a locked car. Now you've just given a criminal a loaded firearm...how dare you be so reckless (said with some mirth and sarcasm).

[Webleymkv]

All of those saying that keeping a gun in the car is an irresponsible and unacceptable practice must be retired, independently wealthy, or lucky enough to work somewhere that allows its employees to carry. I however, do not fit any of those criteria so car carry is sometimes the only viable option for me.

Allow me, if you will, to illustrate a situation I found myself in not very long ago. I worked in a place that, if I am caught carrying a weapon inside the building, I would be fired immediately. Simply changing jobs won't solve this problem because pretty much every establishment in the industry also bans carry within its facilities. Changing careers or risking getting fired also isn't an option because I have a professional license and getting fired for carrying at work could put my license, and thus my entire career, in jeopardy.

Also, the establishment I worked at, while itself secure, was in a not-so-nice area and over an hour from my home. Were I to need to stop for gas or have car trouble on my way to or from work, a gun would be a very comforting thing to have with me.

So, by the logic of all those saying that car carry is completely unacceptable, it would seem that it is morally superior for me to be completely unarmed and at the mercy of whoever/whatever may befall me on my way to and from work rather than risk some criminal committing the crime of breaking into my car and stealing my gun.

I'm sorry, but I have to come down on the side of those who say that the thief, not the thieved-from, is responsible for whatever evil may be done with a stolen gun. I do not drive a particularly fancy or flashy vehicle, my vehicle is always locked when I am not in it, and the gun is not at all visible from the outside of the vehicle. Storing a gun out of plain sight in a locked vehicle is, IMHO, taking reasonable precaution against its theft (and the laws of my state spell that out very clearly). I agree that car carry is a less-than-ideal situation, but sometimes it's the only practical option and I'm not willing to put my own personal safety at risk for fear of what crimes a criminal might commit.

[Tucker 1371]

Arguments against having a car gun aside, I would recommend a Canik TP9 SA.

It's basically a Turkish copy of the Walther P99. I have one and it runs exceptionally well for a $300 gun and the trigger will absolutely blow you way. It is superb for a striker fired gun of any price, right up there with the HK VP9 in my opinion. And it holds 18+1, comes in black and FDE, and a decent case, a so-so holster with both duty and CC attachments. And the sights aren't half bad either, only problem is there are no after market options for them.

[peggysue]

Agree with Tucker

[peggysue]

Hi-Point..then you can get rid of it.