Want a shotgun.

Nightcrawler · May 7, 2001, 05:58 PM

I want a shotgun. Ideally, I'd want an autoloader, maybe a Remington 1100 or 11-87 (one without the pansy-PC-magazine-tube-crimping), with several different barrels, a magazine extension, iron sights, a sling, the works.

Or maybe one of those Russian ones imported by EAA, that can take anything from weeny European 2.5" shells to 3.5" ulti-magnum shells, with either a 20" barrel or the barrel cut down to 18.5", with those fiber-optic turkey sights installed on the rib. 6+1 capacity with 2.75" shells.

There's a little problem though. I'm more or less broke now. I'm 19, the job market in this area bites (hopefully it'll pick up after the college lets out for the summer and all the out-of-state and foreign students go home), and money is tight. I will find a job if it kills me, but I've got a bad feeling that most of my paycheck will go to pay for gas getting to and from work (most likely I'll have to make a 12-mile commute to work, that's where the jobs are), and they say gas is going to break $3.00 a freaking gallon this summer.

So, no, the 11-87 and the EAA are out, for now. Now, this fall, once I start college, I'll be getting $900 a MONTH from the Air Force as part of my dad's death benifits for me, plus the GI bill, Guard pay, and whatever I can get from a part-time job.

Now what? You have to understand, first of all. I live in a small area (northern michigan). There are only two actual gun stores in my area, and neither is very big. The other places you get guns from are the usual sporting goods stores, (Walmart K-Mart Dunhams) so there aren't usually a whole lot of used guns available, and oftentimes finding the one you want can be difficult.

Anyway, the only shotguns I've seen that are in my current price range, that I can think of off the top of my head, are a Norinco Ithaca 37 copy ($149) and the NEF single shot ($80). Maybe there are a few others. I want to get something soon, as the summer months are about the only time you can shoot around here (little problem with our local shootin' hole being filled with four feet of snow, starting in November and ending in March) and I want to get used to firing a shotgun (my shoulder is still kinda recoil sensative, and I want to get over that, it's embarassing). If figure once I start getting my money (making sure, of course, all my college expenses are covered first) I'll start buying more "keeper" guns instead of the low-cost ones I usually grab nowadays. Some of the cheap ones I may, I don't know, give or sell to friends that want to get into shooting, whatever.

Any advice?

Nightcrawler · May 7, 2001, 05:59 PM

Can you fire buckshot out of a rifled barrel (a Remington 870 slug gun), or does it screw up the rifling or something?

Gunslinger · May 7, 2001, 07:20 PM

Dealer cost for the Norinco Ithica 37 copy is only $79.95. They also appear to be well made from what I've seen in terms of fit, finish and operation. Although I have played with them I have not shot one nor talked with anyone that has.
Dicker with your dealer. If he is asking a hundred and a half he is over priced.

Dave McC · May 7, 2001, 07:51 PM

Get the NEF so you have a shotgun, US made and durable as heck. Lots of us folks with more guns than Charlton Heston still have those early single bbls, and make a lot of meat with them on occasion.An NEF with Modified choke makes one good little meat gun, and I know folks on tight budgets that masking tape a couple of cartridges to the stock and keep it handy.

Once cash flow improves, keep your eyes open for a used shotgun of your choice. Meanwhile....

Forget any kind of shot through a rifled bore. Frag grenades have tighter patterns.

Until you get used to the shotgun, use light loads and put a good pad on it. Both Uncle Mike's and Pachmyer make a good slipon pad, just remove the butt plate and slide it on. Of course, that NEF may have a good pad already.

Feel free to E me if you have any questions....

Good luck....

Nightcrawler · May 7, 2001, 08:21 PM

IF I get the NEF, the following will happen.

-The barrel will be shortened to just a hair over 18", and the bead replaced.

-A sidesaddle shell pouch will be fitted to the stock.

Overall, it'd cost me less than a hundred bucks. Hmm. And I can always buy the pump or semi that I may want later. (I'm thinking maybe the Russian autoloader, a Charles Daly, or a Winchester Camp Defender pump)

As for the price of the Norinco, I can forgive dealer markup around here. As I said, the economy here is slow, almost always. Most small businesses can barely keep afloat. I'd rather shop at a small gun store than get my goods from a big national chain like Dunhams or Wal-Mart (I refuse to shop at K-Mart).

Dave McC · May 8, 2001, 05:29 AM

First, a 28" bbled NEF is about the same OA length as a 20" bbled riot gun.

Second, that design grossly violates the Rule of 96, bobbing the bbl would add to the problem.

Third, you'll lose your choke if you shorten the bbl.

If the rate of fire with a single shot disturbs you, try this.....

Keep your backup ammo where you can reach it with your strong hand. Most modern single shots have strong ejectors, so take advantage of this.

On firing, hold onto the bbl/forearm with your support hand. Hit the lever to open the action with your strong hand and let gravity open the action and eject the empty hull as you grab the reload with the strong side hand. Insert the new round and grasp the stock, closing the action and cocking the shotgun as you remount.

IOW, the bbls stay more or less in place as you reload, the action and stock swing through an arc and the whole thing goes faster than one might believe.

Nightcrawler · May 8, 2001, 10:49 AM

Yes, but I figure, if I'm going to have a single shot, I may as well take advantage of its one great quality: compactness. I'll have it shortened to the minimum legal length for a long gun in MI, (30"). I really don't care about the choke. I don't know aything about chokes, and it's just an extra piece to worry about. I don't hunt or shoot trap, and I just want an inexpensive, fun plinking gun that's really compact. I can make the NEF into just such a gun.

I dunno. I got my tax return, so I'm going to poke around today, see if I can get a good deal.

44rugerfan · May 8, 2001, 11:40 AM

Local Wal-mart has NEF's at $79. The choke is the amount of restriction that the shot in the wad gets as it passes through the barrel. This causes tighter shot patterns at longer distances. NEF's don't have interchangeable choke tubes, so the "choke" is forged into the barrel. If you wack the end off, don't count on being able to hit a rabbit at over ten paces. It will pretty much pattern like you taking a handful of BB's and throwing them at something. But it is your choice. If it is home defense gun, no prob. If you ever plan to go hunt with it, I wouldn't whack the barrel.

May 8, 2001, 11:50 AM

Judging from the NEFs my local Wal-Mart always has on display, they seem to be available in at least a couple of different barrel lengths.

Nightcrawler · May 8, 2001, 03:18 PM

An NEF 12ga. Left it with a gunsmith (the only one in the area, had to drive another 20 miles to get to his shop) to have the barrel shortened. I don't really mind that the lack of a choke will widen the shot pattern. This is just a fun gun anyway, and besides, cylinder bore seems to work well enough with Mossbergs and 870s.

It'll make a neat little (get accustomed to heavy recoil) gun until this winter when I buy that nice pump or autoloader I want.

Eventually, I'll try to standardize to five or six types of cartridges, and maybe have only one totally un-PC assult-style weapon. (Hopefully a DS Arms FAL carbine...I don't consider my Maadi AK to be a keeper, unless something changes in the political climate).

Clint Tickler · May 8, 2001, 03:41 PM

I've only been to Michigan once and we drove up to the U.P. from Detroit. I think it was a town called Gaylord where I went into a great gun store with a huge selection of everything used and new. I was impressed with Michigan for not only it's beauty but the billboards on the freeway advertising gun stores. You don't see that here in western Washington. Good luck.

Dave McC · May 8, 2001, 04:08 PM

Cylinder bore works great out to 25 yards or so, then the pattern gets mighty thin. I've used some field guns that were shortened w/o swage or jug choking, and oft they were pure heck on close up quail and rabbits. Enjoy....

Ammo selection is simple. Some field loads in 7 1/2, 6, and maybe 8s if you do any woodcock, and some trap loads in 7 1/2 for the tighter pattern. Add in the "Serious" load of your choice and you're ready.

You may want to ask your smith to mount that bead on a short ramp. This will make it shoot slugs(OUCH!) closer to POA.

Nightcrawler · May 8, 2001, 04:19 PM

I don't hunt. This little scattergun is just a interim shotgun for me. After I get a new pump or autoloader, I'll probably give it to a friend or something. I have a small box of 00 buck and another of reduced recoil rifled slugs that I'm gonna try out when I get it back from the 'smith (probably a couple of days).

Dead · May 8, 2001, 04:32 PM

One thing to consider when getting a NEF shotgun, DO NOT GET THE 10ga!!!!!! Well unless you like pain that is.

That thing is a beast, pure and simple.... A 458win mag is tame compared to it, very tame.

Beowulf · May 11, 2001, 09:45 AM

I know all too well the problems in the UP. I haven't been back there in a Loooong time. Boy I miss those pasties (sic).

I used to have an 18" bbld H&R Topper same gun as the NEF. It was a lot of fun to shoot but there was a price to pay in recoil. Are you sure you can't find a fair shape used pump gun like a Mossberg 500. In a lot of the smaller minning town "variety marts" they should be around $125-150 out the door.

While there's nothing wrong with getting the NEF, I'd hold out just a little longer to see if you couldn't find a cheap used pump gun.

May 7, 2001, 05:58 PM	#1
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	I want a shotgun. Ideally, I'd want an autoloader, maybe a Remington 1100 or 11-87 (one without the pansy-PC-magazine-tube-crimping), with several different barrels, a magazine extension, iron sights, a sling, the works. Or maybe one of those Russian ones imported by EAA, that can take anything from weeny European 2.5" shells to 3.5" ulti-magnum shells, with either a 20" barrel or the barrel cut down to 18.5", with those fiber-optic turkey sights installed on the rib. 6+1 capacity with 2.75" shells. There's a little problem though. I'm more or less broke now. I'm 19, the job market in this area bites (hopefully it'll pick up after the college lets out for the summer and all the out-of-state and foreign students go home), and money is tight. I will find a job if it kills me, but I've got a bad feeling that most of my paycheck will go to pay for gas getting to and from work (most likely I'll have to make a 12-mile commute to work, that's where the jobs are), and they say gas is going to break $3.00 a freaking gallon this summer. So, no, the 11-87 and the EAA are out, for now. Now, this fall, once I start college, I'll be getting $900 a MONTH from the Air Force as part of my dad's death benifits for me, plus the GI bill, Guard pay, and whatever I can get from a part-time job. Now what? You have to understand, first of all. I live in a small area (northern michigan). There are only two actual gun stores in my area, and neither is very big. The other places you get guns from are the usual sporting goods stores, (Walmart K-Mart Dunhams) so there aren't usually a whole lot of used guns available, and oftentimes finding the one you want can be difficult. Anyway, the only shotguns I've seen that are in my current price range, that I can think of off the top of my head, are a Norinco Ithaca 37 copy ($149) and the NEF single shot ($80). Maybe there are a few others. I want to get something soon, as the summer months are about the only time you can shoot around here (little problem with our local shootin' hole being filled with four feet of snow, starting in November and ending in March) and I want to get used to firing a shotgun (my shoulder is still kinda recoil sensative, and I want to get over that, it's embarassing). If figure once I start getting my money (making sure, of course, all my college expenses are covered first) I'll start buying more "keeper" guns instead of the low-cost ones I usually grab nowadays. Some of the cheap ones I may, I don't know, give or sell to friends that want to get into shooting, whatever. Any advice? __________________ Nightcrawler- TFL Alumnus

May 7, 2001, 05:59 PM	#2
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	Another question Can you fire buckshot out of a rifled barrel (a Remington 870 slug gun), or does it screw up the rifling or something?

May 7, 2001, 07:20 PM	#3
Gunslinger Junior member Join Date: January 5, 1999 Location: Springfield, Missouri Posts: 2,105	Just food for thought. Dealer cost for the Norinco Ithica 37 copy is only $79.95. They also appear to be well made from what I've seen in terms of fit, finish and operation. Although I have played with them I have not shot one nor talked with anyone that has. Dicker with your dealer. If he is asking a hundred and a half he is over priced.

May 7, 2001, 08:21 PM	#5
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	The NEF IF I get the NEF, the following will happen. -The barrel will be shortened to just a hair over 18", and the bead replaced. -A sidesaddle shell pouch will be fitted to the stock. Overall, it'd cost me less than a hundred bucks. Hmm. And I can always buy the pump or semi that I may want later. (I'm thinking maybe the Russian autoloader, a Charles Daly, or a Winchester Camp Defender pump) As for the price of the Norinco, I can forgive dealer markup around here. As I said, the economy here is slow, almost always. Most small businesses can barely keep afloat. I'd rather shop at a small gun store than get my goods from a big national chain like Dunhams or Wal-Mart (I refuse to shop at K-Mart).

May 8, 2001, 10:49 AM	#7
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	Hm... Yes, but I figure, if I'm going to have a single shot, I may as well take advantage of its one great quality: compactness. I'll have it shortened to the minimum legal length for a long gun in MI, (30"). I really don't care about the choke. I don't know aything about chokes, and it's just an extra piece to worry about. I don't hunt or shoot trap, and I just want an inexpensive, fun plinking gun that's really compact. I can make the NEF into just such a gun. I dunno. I got my tax return, so I'm going to poke around today, see if I can get a good deal.

May 7, 2001, 07:51 PM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Get the NEF so you have a shotgun, US made and durable as heck. Lots of us folks with more guns than Charlton Heston still have those early single bbls, and make a lot of meat with them on occasion.An NEF with Modified choke makes one good little meat gun, and I know folks on tight budgets that masking tape a couple of cartridges to the stock and keep it handy. Once cash flow improves, keep your eyes open for a used shotgun of your choice. Meanwhile.... Forget any kind of shot through a rifled bore. Frag grenades have tighter patterns. Until you get used to the shotgun, use light loads and put a good pad on it. Both Uncle Mike's and Pachmyer make a good slipon pad, just remove the butt plate and slide it on. Of course, that NEF may have a good pad already. Feel free to E me if you have any questions.... Good luck....

May 8, 2001, 05:29 AM	#6
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	First, a 28" bbled NEF is about the same OA length as a 20" bbled riot gun. Second, that design grossly violates the Rule of 96, bobbing the bbl would add to the problem. Third, you'll lose your choke if you shorten the bbl. If the rate of fire with a single shot disturbs you, try this..... Keep your backup ammo where you can reach it with your strong hand. Most modern single shots have strong ejectors, so take advantage of this. On firing, hold onto the bbl/forearm with your support hand. Hit the lever to open the action with your strong hand and let gravity open the action and eject the empty hull as you grab the reload with the strong side hand. Insert the new round and grasp the stock, closing the action and cocking the shotgun as you remount. IOW, the bbls stay more or less in place as you reload, the action and stock swing through an arc and the whole thing goes faster than one might believe.

May 8, 2001, 11:40 AM	#8
44rugerfan Senior Member Join Date: March 10, 2001 Posts: 277	Local Wal-mart has NEF's at $79. The choke is the amount of restriction that the shot in the wad gets as it passes through the barrel. This causes tighter shot patterns at longer distances. NEF's don't have interchangeable choke tubes, so the "choke" is forged into the barrel. If you wack the end off, don't count on being able to hit a rabbit at over ten paces. It will pretty much pattern like you taking a handful of BB's and throwing them at something. But it is your choice. If it is home defense gun, no prob. If you ever plan to go hunt with it, I wouldn't whack the barrel. __________________ "Praise the Lord, and pass the ammuntion..."

May 8, 2001, 11:50 AM	#9
Jeff, CA Guest Posts: n/a	Judging from the NEFs my local Wal-Mart always has on display, they seem to be available in at least a couple of different barrel lengths.

May 8, 2001, 03:18 PM	#10
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	Purchased An NEF 12ga. Left it with a gunsmith (the only one in the area, had to drive another 20 miles to get to his shop) to have the barrel shortened. I don't really mind that the lack of a choke will widen the shot pattern. This is just a fun gun anyway, and besides, cylinder bore seems to work well enough with Mossbergs and 870s. It'll make a neat little (get accustomed to heavy recoil) gun until this winter when I buy that nice pump or autoloader I want. Eventually, I'll try to standardize to five or six types of cartridges, and maybe have only one totally un-PC assult-style weapon. (Hopefully a DS Arms FAL carbine...I don't consider my Maadi AK to be a keeper, unless something changes in the political climate).

May 8, 2001, 03:41 PM	#11
Clint Tickler Senior Member Join Date: August 12, 1999 Location: Seattle Area Posts: 184	I've only been to Michigan once and we drove up to the U.P. from Detroit. I think it was a town called Gaylord where I went into a great gun store with a huge selection of everything used and new. I was impressed with Michigan for not only it's beauty but the billboards on the freeway advertising gun stores. You don't see that here in western Washington. Good luck.

May 8, 2001, 04:08 PM	#12
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Cylinder bore works great out to 25 yards or so, then the pattern gets mighty thin. I've used some field guns that were shortened w/o swage or jug choking, and oft they were pure heck on close up quail and rabbits. Enjoy.... Ammo selection is simple. Some field loads in 7 1/2, 6, and maybe 8s if you do any woodcock, and some trap loads in 7 1/2 for the tighter pattern. Add in the "Serious" load of your choice and you're ready. You may want to ask your smith to mount that bead on a short ramp. This will make it shoot slugs(OUCH!) closer to POA.

May 8, 2001, 04:19 PM	#13
Nightcrawler Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2000 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,945	Well... I don't hunt. This little scattergun is just a interim shotgun for me. After I get a new pump or autoloader, I'll probably give it to a friend or something. I have a small box of 00 buck and another of reduced recoil rifled slugs that I'm gonna try out when I get it back from the 'smith (probably a couple of days).

May 8, 2001, 04:32 PM	#14
Dead Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2000 Location: AoW Land, USA Posts: 1,968	One thing to consider when getting a NEF shotgun, DO NOT GET THE 10ga!!!!!! Well unless you like pain that is. That thing is a beast, pure and simple.... A 458win mag is tame compared to it, very tame. __________________ Dead [Black Ops] www.therallypoint.org

May 11, 2001, 09:45 AM	#15
Beowulf Member Join Date: February 2, 2001 Posts: 39	I know all too well the problems in the UP. I haven't been back there in a Loooong time. Boy I miss those pasties (sic). I used to have an 18" bbld H&R Topper same gun as the NEF. It was a lot of fun to shoot but there was a price to pay in recoil. Are you sure you can't find a fair shape used pump gun like a Mossberg 500. In a lot of the smaller minning town "variety marts" they should be around $125-150 out the door. While there's nothing wrong with getting the NEF, I'd hold out just a little longer to see if you couldn't find a cheap used pump gun.

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