BEWARE DOBERMANN - SIG380@aol.com aka B. Manners

Personal Defense Systems, LLC · July 30, 2002, 08:15 PM

Bought a SAR-1 from him off ad on assault-web.com board. He now admits he sold it to another guy 2 days AFTER he received my payment because the guy offerred him $25 more! Now I find he was also selling it to a third guy last weekend! In theory he's sending my money back but beware of this fellow - he has no integrity or personal honor. He wouldn't even tell me - I had to email an inquiry to him!

Original ad I responded to:

DOBERMANN
Member
Posts: 8
From

ARLINGTON S.C C.S.A
Registered: Jan 2002
posted 16 July 2002 12:04
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 SAR 1 AND 10 MAGAZINES $300. 1 ROMAK 991 + 7 10RD MAGAZINES $200. 1 ARGENTINE F.M HP9mm +2MAGAZINES and fobus holster $200. all firearms are in excellent condition with little use non residents of S.C must have signed in ink copy of FFL THANK YOU.

Today's email from him after my inquiry:

SORRY I HAVE BEEN VERY BUSY I RECIEVED THE CHECK ON 7/25. ON 7 /27 I
WAS OFFERED $325 FOR THE RIFLE SO I SENT YOU A FULL REFUND AND THE COPY OF
YOUR FFL BACK ON 7/29 YOU SHOULD RECIVE BY 8/3
THANK YOU

Byron Quick · August 7, 2002, 08:21 PM

What a jerk.

Personal Defense Systems, LLC · August 7, 2002, 08:27 PM

The same day that he receives my check - and cashes it (!) - he negotiates to sell the SAR to a different fellow on the net. Only this guy lives within easy driving distance...he promises to sell it to guy #2 as well but then takes it to the gun show and sells it for $25 more than the price he asked in his ad (and that I agreed to pay...). What really fries me is that he cashed my check and still sold my gun to someone else two days later...

Yes, he did finally repay the "loan" I seem to have provided him but he is a real jerk...the whole saga, including email from guy #2, is laid out over on the Board of Referral at assaultweb.com.

Ledbetter · August 7, 2002, 08:43 PM

who is a member here bought a shotgun, he thought, only to have the same thing happen. Turns out the perp did the same thing to several other people, had a past record of doing same, and got himself a visit from the Birmingham Alabama Police Department for his trouble.

Jason Demond · August 8, 2002, 04:05 PM

I'm glad you got your money back, some people don't even get that. There was one guy on Glock Talk who cheated some of the members out of thousands of dollars on a deal to get cheap preban mags, and another guy on AR15.com who did the same. I just hope the cheaters get what they deserve!

kahr Carrier · August 9, 2002, 09:23 PM

PugetSound5 · September 3, 2002, 02:45 PM

Quote:

1 SAR 1 AND 10 MAGAZINES $300. 1 ROMAK 991 + 7 10RD MAGAZINES $200. 1 ARGENTINE F.M HP9mm +2MAGAZINES and fobus holster $200. all firearms are in excellent condition with little use non residents of S.C must have signed in ink copy of FFL THANK YOU.

I don't mean to be a Smart Aleck or a kibitzer, and you do have a very legitimate beef concerning the appaling way in the way that the transaction was handled; however, what strikes me is the price...

Sure, the guys was offering 10 mags with the used SAR-1, but this rifle is presently very available for $300 from reputable retailers (AIM, J&G). SOG has one @ $280 but they advertise it as a Roumanian taking high-cap without specifying "SAR-1", so I
I'm not sure if what model it is. There are probably others.. These were available last month at these prices during the time of your transaction. I'd bet that a good local dealer could have got it for you brand new for a similar price when you take into account the shipping and FFL transfer fee (in my area I know that at least one would). And probably with a few mags thrown in. Mags are dirt-cheap anyway.

So again, not meant to put salt on the wound, but did you shop around first?

PS5

jmlv · September 11, 2002, 11:48 AM

about as much as it does with the origional post. what difference does it make what he could have gotton the rifle for elsewhere he BOUGHT IT FROM THIS IDIOT(DOBERMAN). AND PAID FOR IT. AND WAS CHEATED OUT OF IT.

Powderman · September 11, 2002, 03:16 PM

Jason:

You mentioned that the pre-ban Glock mag sale was a big scam. Tell me more!! I saw that ad some time ago, and almost jumped on it. What happened?

PugetSound5 · September 27, 2002, 12:39 PM

Quote:

what does that have to do with the price of tea in china?
about as much as it does with the origional post. what difference does it make what he could have gotton the rifle for elsewhere he BOUGHT IT FROM THIS IDIOT(DOBERMAN). AND PAID FOR IT. AND WAS CHEATED OUT OF IT.

It has to do with the risk of entering into a much riskier private transaction for the same or even higher price on a used piece than a safer transaction buying a new piece through a dealer. He could have his purchase cheaper and easier, and not just from "elsewhere", but from established legitimate dealers; and brand new (my understanding from his post is that he was buying used). That was my point.

PS5

July 30, 2002, 08:15 PM	#1
Personal Defense Systems, LLC Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 2	BEWARE DOBERMANN - [email protected] aka B. Manners Bought a SAR-1 from him off ad on assault-web.com board. He now admits he sold it to another guy 2 days AFTER he received my payment because the guy offerred him $25 more! Now I find he was also selling it to a third guy last weekend! In theory he's sending my money back but beware of this fellow - he has no integrity or personal honor. He wouldn't even tell me - I had to email an inquiry to him! Original ad I responded to: DOBERMANN Member Posts: 8 FromARLINGTON S.C C.S.A Registered: Jan 2002 posted 16 July 2002 12:04 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 SAR 1 AND 10 MAGAZINES $300. 1 ROMAK 991 + 7 10RD MAGAZINES $200. 1 ARGENTINE F.M HP9mm +2MAGAZINES and fobus holster $200. all firearms are in excellent condition with little use non residents of S.C must have signed in ink copy of FFL THANK YOU. Today's email from him after my inquiry: SORRY I HAVE BEEN VERY BUSY I RECIEVED THE CHECK ON 7/25. ON 7 /27 I WAS OFFERED $325 FOR THE RIFLE SO I SENT YOU A FULL REFUND AND THE COPY OF YOUR FFL BACK ON 7/29 YOU SHOULD RECIVE BY 8/3 THANK YOU __________________ Gregory L. Abbott Personal Defense Systems LLC C2/SOT

August 7, 2002, 08:27 PM	#3
Personal Defense Systems, LLC Junior Member Join Date: July 30, 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 2	Now it turns out he resold it to a 3rd Guy as well... The same day that he receives my check - and cashes it (!) - he negotiates to sell the SAR to a different fellow on the net. Only this guy lives within easy driving distance...he promises to sell it to guy #2 as well but then takes it to the gun show and sells it for $25 more than the price he asked in his ad (and that I agreed to pay...). What really fries me is that he cashed my check and still sold my gun to someone else two days later... Yes, he did finally repay the "loan" I seem to have provided him but he is a real jerk...the whole saga, including email from guy #2, is laid out over on the Board of Referral at assaultweb.com. __________________ Gregory L. Abbott Personal Defense Systems LLC C2/SOT

August 7, 2002, 08:43 PM	#4
Ledbetter Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2000 Location: California USA Posts: 4,533	A guy I know who is a member here bought a shotgun, he thought, only to have the same thing happen. Turns out the perp did the same thing to several other people, had a past record of doing same, and got himself a visit from the Birmingham Alabama Police Department for his trouble.

August 8, 2002, 04:05 PM	#5
Jason Demond Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 1999 Location: Mivonks, Michigan Posts: 1,846	I'm glad you got your money back, some people don't even get that. There was one guy on Glock Talk who cheated some of the members out of thousands of dollars on a deal to get cheap preban mags, and another guy on AR15.com who did the same. I just hope the cheaters get what they deserve! __________________ "ACCEPT NOTHING LESS THAN FULL VICTORY!" General Dwight D. Eisenhower June 6, 1944 ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ!

August 9, 2002, 09:23 PM	#6
kahr Carrier Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2002 Posts: 367	__________________ " Have gun will travel" Springfield if your listening make a 10mm 1911.

August 7, 2002, 08:21 PM	#2
Byron Quick Staff In Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Waynesboro, Georgia, USA Posts: 2,361	What a jerk.

September 11, 2002, 11:48 AM	#8
jmlv Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2001 Location: PA AMERICA STARTS HERE! Posts: 739	what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? about as much as it does with the origional post. what difference does it make what he could have gotton the rifle for elsewhere he BOUGHT IT FROM THIS IDIOT(DOBERMAN). AND PAID FOR IT. AND WAS CHEATED OUT OF IT. __________________ JMLV NEW PA RESIDENT TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 11, 2002, 03:16 PM	#9
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	Jason: You mentioned that the pre-ban Glock mag sale was a big scam. Tell me more!! I saw that ad some time ago, and almost jumped on it. What happened? __________________ Hiding in plain sight...