Who makes the toughest .45?

[dahermit]

Quote:
If anyone lists a 1911, I will beg to differ.

MY question stems from intrigue, not contempt. How is it that Ace Custom .45s Inc. is hable to put out 1911s that reliably fire .45 Super?

"...Ace "Custom" .45s..." If you read my post, you will see that I specified custom fitted 1911's as the exception.

[FreakGasolineFight]

My natural inclination is to vote for Hi-Point

Suppose it depends what you mean by tough ... I love my Hi-Point, but I doubt it would survive, say, being run over by a truck very well. They do fire all manner of +P and +P+ ammo, though.

[GallowGlass]

Steady diet of +P rounds requires a strong frame. Browning-CZ,keep them whistle clean.

[CzCasull]

I still say Mk23, there's actual research to back its ability to take +P very well.

From the Mk23 Owner's manual:

"During testing, MK 23 pistols met the most stringent
operational and accuracy requirements ever demanded of
a combat handgun. MK 23 pistols achieved match grade
accuracy of less than a 2.5 inch maximum extreme
spread in 5-round shot groups at 25 meters with service
ammunition. Endurance testing demonstrated a service
life of over 30,000 rounds of +P ammunition with no parts
breakage, with an additional 30,000 rounds certified on
the slide and frame."

Source - http://www.scribd.com/doc/21250664/H...rator-s-Manual - Page 6 paragraph 6

Granted, a gun made for a different, more powerful cartridge or even caliber can for sure take it better.. this firearm was made from the ground up as a .45 ACP.

[AZAK]

If anyone lists a 1911, I will beg to differ. Having recently studied the design, timing, and lock-up of the 1911 design, including the information on the 1911 forum and information from the very knowledgeable Kuhnhousen, a factory produced 1911 is most likely to be a "link rider". As such, the link will fail prematurely and sooner with +P ammo.

I do believe that Colt makes a factory 1911 referred to as the Delta Elite in 10mm auto. I have many thousand of rounds downrange with mine, as do many other Delta Elite owners. So, I don't think that one can just rule out the 1911 as a viable .45 auto +p launcher. It is possible that the 1911 will experience some accelerated wear under these conditions; however, my link is still intact along with the rest of the pistol.

The Glock 21 is basically the same pistol as the G20 in 10mm auto. Glock designed the 20 and then afterward altered the 10mm to .45. Same story as above, sort of, in that if it can launch 10mm auto for any length of time .45 auto +p should kind of work also.

And as previously mentioned: LAR Grizzly.

Also the preceding post provides some actual documentation in favor of the Mk23.

I personally don't bother with .45 auto +p, as I just reach for one of my 10mm autos, preferably my Delta Elite.

[Coltman 77]

HK MK23.

[jeepman4804]

I am gonna be running 45 super in my M&P with a stronger recoil spring so that it does not batter the slide and frame. Most any modern .45 can shoot +p on a steady diet as long as the correct recoil spring is used. Some can factory with no changes. There are too many variables to answer the question 100%. Some +p is a touch hotter than others, all the gun models have different slide masses and springs rates, etc. etc.

[Slamfire]

Peened out the first frame of this Colt Combat Elite with standard loads. The pistol unlocked early and excessive slide speed beat up my frame.

Colt replaced the frame but did not fix the early unlock problem. Colt also did not reset the warranty clock, which is measured from the date of purchase of the original frame.

Sent pistol to Wilson Arms, they understand M1911’s, and it is fixed.

Peening a frame made me real nervous about the costs of replacing another.

When it costs you $600 to $800, you will figure out that +P is not the way.

You want to shoot mini nukes?: get a revolver.

[jmr40]

Colt had a lot of problems with early 1911's in 10mm. If I remember correctly they were cracking frames. I'm not really sure what they did but after some changes were made there have been fewer problems with 10mm 1911's. Even so I'm a little hesitant to own a 1911 in anything other than 45. I shoot +p in mine, but on a limited basis.

I still think the Smith 4506's were probably the toughest 45's ever made.

[FALshootist]

The G21 is built on a G20 frame. If it can handle the 10mm the 45 super should be fine. The same goes for the 1911. The 10mm generates substantially more presure than the 45 ACP and the 45 +P. The super may be pushing it and you should check with you specific manufacturer.

My department has a number of guns that are approved. We issue +Ps in 38 special, 9mm and 45 acp. They've been doing this before J frames were specifically rated for +p ammo and we've never had a problem.

I have an older West German P220 and use the issued 230 +P all the time with no signs of excessive wear. I won't shoot 45 supers in it, but I have no problem with +ps.

I like the 45 +P for the same reason I like the 10mm and even the 40 S&W, I'm a believer in big and fast rather than big and slow or small and fast.

[AZAK]

Colt had a lot of problems with early 1911's in 10mm. If I remember correctly they were cracking frames.

Solved very early on, with a cut out on the frame. So in the twenty plus years and thousands of rounds later, the Delta Elite in 10mm auto in a 1911 pattern pistol still gets the job done.

[darkgael]

How is it that Ace Custom .45s Inc. is able to put out 1911s that reliably fire .45 Super?

There's reliable and there's durable. Not the same thing at all. I have a SA .45 set up for .45 Super loads at present. It is reliable. It always goes bang. I don't, however, believe that a large volume of .45 Supers is a great idea.
As far as ACE Custom is concerned, I don't know - how long have they been at the .45 Super business - 1994 - enough years to know, I suppose.
Maybe I need not worry about my gun falling apart.
ACE uses a number of firearms mentioned in this thread. To wit,

Currently Ace Custom .45's Inc. offers 10 different complete "45Super"® pistols, based on Springfield Armory, Para-ordnance, Kimber, and Glock Model 21 units and of course we continue to offer "45Super"® conversions on customer supplied weapons, as well as "Gunsmith fit" "45Super"® conversion kits, for Govt. Mod 1911 style pistols and 4506 series Smith & Wesson pistols, and the Glock M-21.

Pete