1911 disadvantage??

[cyarnell]

looking to purchase a 45cal in the near future and seriously looking to start IDPA USPSA type competition. My question is this, considering that most (if not all) 1911 model pistols are 7-8rds is that a "distinct" disadvantage in pistol competitions. Considering that california (where i live) has a 10rd mag limit anyhow i was thinking it couldn't be that big of a disadvantage.

[5.56RifleGuy]

You can get ten round magazines from them. It might stick out a little, but it will have the extra 2 rounds.

[leadcounsel]

I am new to competition shooting - but in my experience the answer is that it would depend. Are you shooting to compete with others or compete with yourself and get better with your self defense weapon.

There are 2 classes of shooters.
1. Those that compete for the highest score, and spend loads of time and money on impractical 'race' guns and 'race rigs' setups; taming down their handloads, light triggers, etc.

2. My personal philosophy - I use the standard guns that I use for home/self defense. Great practical and inexpensive training under stress.

If you fall into category 1, then the 1911 may be wrong for you. Additionaly the 1911 is, as you know, expensive to feed. If you are in category 2, then it may be the perfect gun.

[dukeofurl]

In IDPA, most of the 1911's are single stack 45's and nearly everyone runs Wilson 47D's as they are the most reliable magazine by far. They beat out some of the factory mags I have used in the past. I'd say the playing field is level in that respect but you operate to a slight disadvantage to the SSP guys with 10+1.

In USPSA, your only competitive option with a single stack 1911 is getting 10 round mags that stick out and shooting Limited 10. If you shoot Limited against the guys with the 140mm STI mags and 20+ rounds of 40, theres no way you can even score fast enough to stay competitive.

[kraigwy]

Like everything else dealing with Guns and Shooting,

IT DEPENDS

I shoot 1911s (Colt series 70 Gold Cup) much better then any other semi I've tried. In my case its an ADVANTAGE, if you can shoot one of those hi cap guns, then I guess maybe its a disavantage.

[Jim Watson]

The competition is set up in Divisions oriented to different guns, so there is no disadvantage. You and your .45 are not competing - well, not officially - with higher capacity or lower recoiling guns.

A 1911 .45 is a natural for IDPA CDP where EVERYBODY is shooting a .45 with no more than 8 in the magazine; mostly but not entirely 1911s.
USPSA Single Stack requires a 1911 and limits magazine capacity to 8 at Major Power Factor.

[motorep]

dukeofurl is misinformed. Yes, you can compete in the USPSA Limited-10 division with a 1911. However, there is a Single Stack division, which is only for 1911's. You can check it out at www.USPSA.org .

[dukeofurl]

Oops. Forgot about single stack. Sorry.

[RickB]

nearly everyone runs Wilson 47D's as they are the most reliable magazine by far.

I don't think even 25% the guys I know shooting .45s in IDPA and USPSA are using Wilson mags. Wilson, Chip McCormick and Tripp are fairly equally represented, and the rest is a mix of Mec-Gar, Metalform, Check-Mate and "factory" mags.
A .45 with 8-round mags is perfect for Single Stack and CDP, and as noted, with some 10-round mags you're good for Limited 10.

[tgford58]

Well I guess I can weigh in also. I shoot quite a bit USPSA with a 1911 .45. Shooting Single Stack, Production or Limited 10 there is no particular handicap. You will need to buy 10 round mags if you want to stay with the field in Limited 10. I think you will find that most stages can be broken up in 8 round stations if you run the stage correctly.

just don't equate your speed on targets with the Limited and Open shooters. They burn through ammo and reload less so they run faster. The whole point behind Divisions.

[RickB]

You can't shoot a 1911 in Production division.

[Don P]

You can get ten round magazines from them. It might stick out a little, but it will have the extra 2 rounds.

For IDPA the gun MUST "fit in the box". The 10 round magazine is a mute point for IDPA in the CDP division which is where the 1911 will be placed. The CDP division is limited to 8+1 rounds regardless of type of 45acp it is.
8 round magazine and 1 in the chamber
You could get a SA XD 45acp or other similar type pistol and shoot in the ESP division and load to division capacity of 10 rounds in the magazine and 1 in the chamber
If you were to choose to shoot in the CDP division with your XD you would be limited to the 8+1 round capacity.

[WESHOOT2]

There is no disadvantage to using a 1911, unless you compete to win in a non-1911 discipline.

[crockett007]

nearly everyone runs Wilson 47D's as they are the most reliable magazine by far. They beat out some of the factory mags I have used in the past.

I strongly disagree that Wilson mags are the most reliable. You need to check out Tripp Research my friend.

[jimbob86]

You can't shoot a 1911 in Production division.

Ummm..... because?

...... because 1911's are "born" as opposed to "produced"?

[SavageMOA]

Ummm..... because?

...... because 1911's are "born" as opposed to "produced"?

USPSA has an approved handgun list for production. Only the guns on the list are allowed, and only allowed if they are within 2 ounces of the weight declared from the factory.

USPSA did not allow 1911's because of the potential advantage the single action only trigger may provide. If you want to shoot a 1911 competitively (and have competitive equipment) in USPSA, try these divisions:

Single stack (1911's ONLY. Limited to 8+1 rounds if shooting major power factor)
Limited 10- (Same rules as Limited division- except limited to 10 rounds)

[SavageMOA]

Long story short:

1911 is ABSOLUTELY a competitive platform. Just ask Rob Leatham.

[lmccrock]

Ummm..... because?

...... because 1911's are "born" as opposed to "produced"?

"Single-Action-Only handguns" are prohibited in Production, Appendix D4.22.

Lee

[jimbob86]

"Single action only" handguns being "unfair"?



“The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.”
—Col. Jeff Coooper Guns & Ammo, January 2002

[SavageMOA]

"Single action only" handguns being "unfair"?



“The 1911 pistol remains the service pistol of choice in the eyes of those who understand the problem. Back when we audited the FBI academy in 1947, I was told that I ought not to use my pistol in their training program because it was not fair. Maybe the first thing one should demand of his sidearm is that it be unfair.”
—Col. Jeff Coooper Guns & Ammo, January 2002

You don't have to agree with the rules. Just have to play by them

By your logic I should be able to bring an Open gun to a revolver only match and shoot alongside them and it be fair.

[warningshot]

Lethan just because you are shooting a 1911 too. I know. I tried. And it didn't work. Ha Ha. Rob Letham is still just a little bit better than me.

[g.willikers]

There was an actual study on the benefits of high capacity for competition.
The results were surprising, in so far as rarely did it matter all that much.
Most of the stages and courses of fire don't give the high capacity guns all that much advantage.
Until the gun's capacity exceeds fourteen rounds, the scoring results are about the same.
The real high capacity guns, the ones that hold twenty something, does make life easier, but only if the competitor can run fast, and shoot very fast and very accurate.
Otherwise, a little practice time in mag changes is what's needed, rather than a new gun.

[ZCORR Jay]

cyarnell if your just starting out in comp shooting I'd say go for the 1911 and if it does become serious and you want to move to category 1 like leadcounsel said then consider another gun.

You may end up with two guns that way but then you end up with a self defense gun and a competition gun rather than just a competition gun.

[l98ster]

Well, for IPSC I would look at something different. 1911's arent allowed in production class (which is where you want to be when first starting this type of shooting).

The 1911's that I see at all the matches tend to not run well. Some say its the magazines, some say its the reloads, but who cares! A jam is a jam!!

In production, you only have to meet minimum power factor. That translates into medium power 9mm or fairly low power .40. Glocks, XD's and CZ tend to dominate this class.

1911's tend to dominate the limited and open divisions. For competition, if you want to go with a 1911, I would look for one that is chambered in .40. Ammo will be cheaper, and you can make major power factor fairly easily. 9mm for major pwer factor is hard to do. Factory ammo wont make it, so reloading is your only option.

To sum it up: 9mm for production, 40 for limited/open. 1911 guns will not be allowed in production.

-George

[jmorris]

USPSA has an approved handgun list for production. Only the guns on the list are allowed, and only allowed if they are within 2 ounces of the weight declared from the factory.

USPSA did not allow 1911's because of the potential advantage the single action only trigger may provide. If you want to shoot a 1911 competitively (and have competitive equipment) in USPSA, try these divisions:

It's the list that gets them in USPSA and weight in IDPA before that I used a Para LDA LTD in SSP for a bit. Double action but what a goofy reset...