When to shoot?

[B.N.Real]

The example I used stated if my wife was screaming and bloody,i.e. this guy just beat the mess out of her,I'd shoot him in his rear ( or even one of his legs) to stop him from getting away.

I have no intention of being a hero but I have the right to keep what I work for and to not be the victim of any criminal.

Suppose I just give this guy my wallet and next week he kills a kid on the street where I live because I did nothing to stop him?

The only thing that stops criminals is getting involved.

That DOES NOT mean going on a shooting spree against criminals.

It means planning ahead,being smart about your surroundings and where you live.

Lighting your residence and not advertising when you will be away.

And should someone decide that they want to take away what you have worked your life to earn,you should have the right to do what is legally right to keep it.

I don't work 70 hours a week to give that paycheck to a lazy axxed thief.

"Just give it to him" is simply HORSE MANURE.

[threegun]

BNreal, I wasn't referring to you about getting involved.

The example I used stated if my wife was screaming and bloody,i.e. this guy just beat the mess out of her,I'd shoot him in his rear ( or even one of his legs) to stop him from getting away.

I was taught to never use a bullet to apprehend. Seems it violates the death or grave bodily injury requirement.

[OldMarksman]

I don't work 70 hours a week to give that paycheck to a lazy axxed thief.

If he holds a gun on you and demands your wallet; he is a robber, not a thief, and if he shoots you you will wish that you had given your paycheck to him.

If you are accosted by an armed robber, you are entitled to use deadly force in most places (but not to prevent his departure with your wallet, in the great majority of jurisdictions), but it may not be a good idea at all. Do you think you can draw from concealment and prevent a man who is holding a gun on you from shooting you? Do you want to be without your gun for a while during an investigation? Do you want to incur the legal costs involved?

Under what conditions, if any, does the law in your state permit a civilian, or a civilian acting under the direction of a sworn officer, or even a sworn officer, to shoot a fleeing felon?

If you insist on holding onto your wallet, you might consider carrying some cash in a weighted money clip and tossing it slowly to him.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by B.N.Real

...should someone decide that they want to take away what you have worked your life to earn,you should have the right to do what is legally right to keep it....

And the thing is that you do have the right to do what is legally right. Which is why it's so important to understand what is legally right in your jurisdiction.

If you overstep the bounds of what is legally right, for example by using lethal force when it would not be justified under the applicable law, you could wind up in jail, out of a job, prohibited from ever again possessing a gun, etc. Overstepping the legal bounds is another way in which to lose everything you've worked so hard for.

[markj]

Let me know how you can tell the nice bad guys from the mean ones so I can be like you.

Well I doubt that will ever happen. We have different mindsets. Mine you feel is wrong and will get a person hurt. Me ? I wrote my thoughts down, sorry you cant deal with them. Sometimes a person needs a hand up, ever offered yours?

Shooting and killing a person isnt what I am all about. I will resist the urge to shoot someone unless it is the only way out and I or my family is under threat. Not the guy over there, not the gal walking down the road, but me and mine. It has done me very well so far. I am still kicking and have had some trying times from young guys thought they knew the answers.

I hope you may someday come to understand this. You may take a class or two as I did that will help you look at a person and catagorize them as a potential threat or not. Or you can just go around thinking everyone is out to get you and be ready all the time. Would wear me out mentally.

A guy did stab me once, I let him get too close and stupidly turned my back on him.

Another guy shot me in the left shoulder for whatever reason he had. Hurts at times.

In my younger days I had no fear, went to all the bad places hung around with all sorts of criminals. My first wifes family was well known for their criminal antics. Most of them are dead, almost half went to the pen at one time or another. One shot a guys car engine, was 4 guys chasing him, he pulled a 44 mag and let it rip. Sarpy County has the details as he was arrested.


You will never be like me.

[threegun]

I wrote my thoughts down, sorry you cant deal with them. Sometimes a person needs a hand up, ever offered yours?

I don't have to deal with them as it is your life your call. It just seemed from your post that you could tell if a bad guy was intent on harm or just a person in need gone astray. As for helping folks, yes many times. However my charity is totally voluntary. I would burn the money rather than give it to a needy ROBBER.

Shooting and killing a person isn't what I am all about. I will resist the urge to shoot someone unless it is the only way out and I or my family is under threat.

Urge to shoot someone? No sane law abiding citizen wants to kill or has that urge to do so. Self defense may however require it.

[threegun]

You will never be like me.

Blessing or curse?

[Glenn Bartley]

I would never ever ever shoot at someone that is retreating, or someone wants my cash. Heck I would give it to him and ask if he was hungrey lets go get a bite. Maybe all he needs is a helping hand up. Hopefully that is, if not well then take the cash and go have a good time.

This is not a reply specifically to the person who wrote the above. This is a reply to all of you who are essentially of the same mindset, I just used the quote as an example. Here is my opinion of that mindset and my opinion about what I would do and how well it would work.

After he takes your cash, you are going to ask him if he wants to go have a bite? Where would that be - at your house? Not only do criminals take your cash they usually take your wallet too, so my guess is you are inviting him to your house instead of a restaurant because it would be doubtful he would pay for you. What about his accomplices, are they coming along. Most robbers are not lone wolves but have criminal accomplices. I am not being facetious here, this is serious stuff. Would you invite a robber to a meal, even at a restaurant then expect to be on good terms with him? What prevents him from, after finishing the meal, to force you at gunpoint to go to your home for more valuables? Will it be the gun you are still carrying? Are you so sure you will still be armed at this point?

As for being of the mindset that you would never shoot someone who wants your money: what happens when you reach for the cash, or maybe he or his accomplice reaches for it, and they realize you are carrying more than cash? Now what? You have already put yourself in the submissive state and they have found your firearm. What is important now is not what you do because you are then already at their mercy. What is important is what they do next. Do they kill you? Do they kill your family? Heck they do not even have to find your gun, they may just think killing you means one less witness. It happens all to often.

Yes, many times an armed bad guy just will take your money and go. The truth is though that all to many times they will also take your jewelry, and your cell phone and any other valuables you have. Guess what else the bad guys are going to want. Are you also willing to give the bad guys your firearm when they finds it? If you are willing to give your cash, then why not your gun? Is it time to try to use deadly force yet?

Do you really want to place yourself at the mercy of someone who is committing an ARMED robbery? They are already threatening your life with a weapon. The line of reasoning, used by the great majority of people who say they would not shoot or that you should not shoot is truly very shallow. You (all of you on the whole who think that way) fail to consider the complexity of the situation. There are too many what ifs that are putting your life at risk, you seem to think if you give up your cash it will all be over. The thing is that the next thing you know is that the bad guy is forcing you to drive to, or they are driving you to, an AT to get more cash. Then they want to force you to go home to get more valuables. Are your wife and kids at home? Are you still being submissive? Where is your gun now? Oh that's right, you submitted and they found it and took it from you. You are unarmed now, do you fight now?

When were your chances the best? Think about that because things like this happen all the time, they are often in the news.

I am pretty certain that if confronted by an armed robber, or anyone threatening my life or limb, while I am armed, I would fight back or try at least to escape under almost every circumstance; for that matter even if unarmed I would quite possibly try to fight my way out or escape. I have that mindset, to overcome my own reactions quickly by taking control of the action and thus to make the bad guy have to react. I am not about to place myself at the mercy of a potential killer who is pointing a knife or gun at me if I think I have a chance. That is what I plan and practice for. It is my mindset.

What are the odds that I would survive an armed encounter against someone already set on killing me from the outset? I think, certainly better if I fight back or escape than if I become submissive. What are the odds I will survive an armed encounter with someone who had just wanted my money but also pointed a gun at me? Well if something makes him change his mind, like he sees my gun, then I think I probably would have been very lucky to have fought back because I think chances are increased, once he sees my gun, that he kills me.

I am fairly certain I would fight back or try to escape in the great majority of such situations. I am hopeful I will never be like those who think they should submit or worse yet who think it righteous to invite a dirtbag, who is robbing them, to break bread with them. Want a helping hand up, then don't try robbing me to get it or the hand extended will likely be shooting a gun. On the other hand, if you just ask politely for it, you will probably get at least some of the help you were seeking.

All the best,
Glenn B

[Glenn Bartley]

I would never ever ever shoot at someone that is retreating, or someone wants my cash. Heck I would give it to him and ask if he was hungrey lets go get a bite. Maybe all he needs is a helping hand up. Hopefully that is, if not well then take the cash and go have a good time.

This is not a reply specifically to the person who wrote the above. This is a reply to all of you who are essentially of the same mindset, I just used the quote as an example. Here is my opinion of that mindset and my opinion about what I would do and how well it would work.

Remember, we are talking about an armed robber in this thread, someone already threatening your life or limb. After he takes your cash, you are going to ask him if he wants to go have a bite? Where would that be - at your house? Not only do criminals take your cash they usually take your wallet too, so my guess is you are inviting him to your house instead of a restaurant because it would be doubtful he would pay for you. What about his accomplices, are they coming along. Most robbers are not lone wolves but have criminal accomplices. I am not being facetious here, this is serious stuff. Would you invite a robber to a meal, even at a restaurant then expect to be on good terms with him? What prevents him from, after finishing the meal, to force you at gunpoint to go to your home for more valuables? Will it be the gun you are still carrying? Are you so sure you will still be armed at this point?

As for being of the mindset that you would never shoot someone who wants your money: what happens when you reach for the cash, or maybe he or his accomplice reaches for it, and they realize you are carrying more than cash? Now what? You have already put yourself in the submissive state and they have found your firearm. What is important now is not what you do because you are then already at their mercy. What is important is what they do next. Do they kill you? Do they kill your family? Heck they do not even have to find your gun, they may just think killing you means one less witness. It happens all to often.

Yes, many times an armed bad guy just will take your money and go. The truth is though that all to many times they will also take your jewelry, and your cell phone and any other valuables you have. Guess what else the bad guys are going to want. Are you also willing to give the bad guys your firearm when they finds it? If you are willing to give your cash, then why not your gun? Is it time to try to use deadly force yet?

Do you really want to place yourself at the mercy of someone who is committing an ARMED robbery? They are already threatening your life with a weapon. The line of reasoning, used by the great majority of people who say they would not shoot or that you should not shoot is truly very shallow. You (all of you on the whole who think that way) fail to consider the complexity of the situation. There are too many what ifs that are putting your life at risk, you seem to think if you give up your cash it will all be over. The thing is that the next thing you know is that the bad guy is forcing you to drive to, or they are driving you to, an AT to get more cash. Then they want to force you to go home to get more valuables. Are your wife and kids at home? Are you still being submissive? Where is your gun now? Oh that's right, you submitted and they found it and took it from you. You are unarmed now, do you fight now?

When were your chances the best? Think about that because things like this happen all the time, they are often in the news.

I am pretty certain that if confronted by an armed robber, or anyone threatening my life or limb, while I am armed, I would fight back or try at least to escape under almost every circumstance; for that matter even if unarmed I would quite possibly try to fight my way out or escape. I have that mindset, to overcome my own reactions quickly by taking control of the action and thus to make the bad guy have to react. I am not about to place myself at the mercy of a potential killer who is pointing a knife or gun at me if I think I have a chance. That is what I plan and practice for. It is my mindset.

What are the odds that I would survive an armed encounter against someone already set on killing me from the outset? I think, certainly better if I fight back or escape than if I become submissive. What are the odds I will survive an armed encounter with someone who had just wanted my money but also pointed a gun at me? Well if something makes him change his mind, like he sees my gun, then I think I probably would have been very lucky to have fought back because I think chances are increased, once he sees my gun, that he kills me.

I am fairly certain I would fight back or try to escape in the great majority of such situations. I am hopeful I will never be like those who think they should submit or worse yet who think it righteous to invite a dirtbag, who is robbing them, to break bread with them. Want a helping hand up, then don't try robbing me by way of a threat of deadly force to get it or the hand extended toward you will likely be shooting a gun. On the other hand, if you just ask politely for it, you will probably get at least some of the help you were seeking.

All the best,
Glenn B