What is "Pedersen hestitation blowback" action?

Oleg Volk · June 28, 2000, 01:13 PM

[Link to invalid post]

Found this
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Hestitation Blowback: FIRE. Empty case pushes moving part back, overcoming leverage (EXTRACT, EJECT). Spring pushes moving part
forward (FEED).
[/quote]

Would recoil feel different and be less or the same as straight blowback?

[This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited June 28, 2000).]

**4V50 Gary** · June 28, 2000, 11:35 PM

Describes the .276 Pedersen T1 rifle:

"The brech action of the Pedersen rifle is of the delayed blowback type in which two opposed camming blocks are held by a link in the form of a toggle, somewhat similar in appearnce to the breech closure of the Luger pistol. The camming surfaces on the blocks rotate on each other as the breech closure proper is forced backward by pressure in the cartridge case. The breech block slides back in guides in the receiver when the rifle is fired, and is immediately moved forward by the action spring, the new round being pushed into the chamber by the face of the bolt. The magazine is of the charger loading type, capacity ten rounds." (Page 35, The Gas Trap Garand by Pyle).

Daniel Watters · June 29, 2000, 01:42 AM

In case Oleg is referring to the Remington 51, the breach block is a seperate component linked to the slide. Upon firing, the breach block and the slide begin to move rearward. However, after a very short distance, the breach block strikes an abutment in the frame halting its movement. The slide continues to move to the rear. After another short distance, the slide cams the breach block off of the frame abutment allowing both pieces to travel to the full rearward position.

The proof that the mechanism delays unlocking can be demonstrated by removing the Model 51's extractor. Upon firing, the case will no longer extract and eject, unlike blowback designs in the same caliber.

Julian Hatcher claimed that the Pedersen designed Remington .45 ACP pistol (big brother to the Model 51) had lighter felt recoil than the M1911 and far less than the Savage .45 pistol. The US Navy wanted to adopt the Remington .45 instead of the M1911, but the First World War intervened.

DDS · June 29, 2000, 06:56 AM

Wonderfully designed pistol with great ergonomics...Remington model 51. I have several pistols in .380 and cant't shoot them because the breachblock keeps breaking in them. It has taken me several years to find replacements each time at local gun shows(very lucky). Anybody know where to find any?

Thanks!

Dave

Oleg Volk · June 29, 2000, 10:50 AM

DDS,

are you saying I might want to avoid 51 for serious uses because of the breakage issue?

June 28, 2000, 01:13 PM	#1
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	[Link to invalid post] Found this <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Hestitation Blowback: FIRE. Empty case pushes moving part back, overcoming leverage (EXTRACT, EJECT). Spring pushes moving part forward (FEED). [/quote] Would recoil feel different and be less or the same as straight blowback? [This message has been edited by Oleg Volk (edited June 28, 2000).]

June 28, 2000, 11:35 PM	#2
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,845	Describes the .276 Pedersen T1 rifle: "The brech action of the Pedersen rifle is of the delayed blowback type in which two opposed camming blocks are held by a link in the form of a toggle, somewhat similar in appearnce to the breech closure of the Luger pistol. The camming surfaces on the blocks rotate on each other as the breech closure proper is forced backward by pressure in the cartridge case. The breech block slides back in guides in the receiver when the rifle is fired, and is immediately moved forward by the action spring, the new round being pushed into the chamber by the face of the bolt. The magazine is of the charger loading type, capacity ten rounds." (Page 35, The Gas Trap Garand by Pyle).

June 29, 2000, 01:42 AM	#3
Daniel Watters Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 1999 Location: USA Posts: 644	In case Oleg is referring to the Remington 51, the breach block is a seperate component linked to the slide. Upon firing, the breach block and the slide begin to move rearward. However, after a very short distance, the breach block strikes an abutment in the frame halting its movement. The slide continues to move to the rear. After another short distance, the slide cams the breach block off of the frame abutment allowing both pieces to travel to the full rearward position. The proof that the mechanism delays unlocking can be demonstrated by removing the Model 51's extractor. Upon firing, the case will no longer extract and eject, unlike blowback designs in the same caliber. Julian Hatcher claimed that the Pedersen designed Remington .45 ACP pistol (big brother to the Model 51) had lighter felt recoil than the M1911 and far less than the Savage .45 pistol. The US Navy wanted to adopt the Remington .45 instead of the M1911, but the First World War intervened.

June 29, 2000, 06:56 AM	#4
DDS Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 1999 Posts: 101	Wonderfully designed pistol with great ergonomics...Remington model 51. I have several pistols in .380 and cant't shoot them because the breachblock keeps breaking in them. It has taken me several years to find replacements each time at local gun shows(very lucky). Anybody know where to find any? Thanks! Dave

June 29, 2000, 10:50 AM	#5
Oleg Volk Staff Alumnus Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 7,022	DDS, are you saying I might want to avoid 51 for serious uses because of the breakage issue?