BLEW UP a Kimber today...........

[Glenner]

I was at the range with a buddy today, when out the corner of my eye I saw his Kimber 1911 jump out of his hands.
He must have double charged his 45acp round. The explosion blew out the lower end of the case (there was a big hole in the side of the case itself), it blew the primer out of the case, knocked the extractor off the slide and had so much force going down into the grip portion of the gun that it broke/split both the left and right wooden Kimber grips into 4 big pieces. As the grips blew up, it blew his hands off the gun and sent it tumbling into his lap.
He got away with only a small scrape on his nose and upper cheek. Neither of us were wearing safety glasses, I always say I will, but seldom do. That will change.
I posted this as a reminder to all of us to be extra careful when we load bullets. We have the potential not only to hurt our selves, but we can also injure those close to us when we're shooting.
I've never liked wearing glasses of any kind, that's a real stupid reason not to wear safety glasses when I'm shooting. I hope this will sway a few of you that had the same bad practice I had ~~ wear safety glasses when ever you shoot!!!
OK, I'm finished preaching........................
Shoot safe, Shoot straight and have fun~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Ozzieman]

What bullet and powder type and weight was he using?
To double charge a 45 ACP is difficult with out it poring over the side of the case.
This is also one reason that when I reload I do it in reloading blocks of 50 and after filling all 50 with powder I take a flash light and look at each and every case. It only takes seconds and can save a gun, your eyesight and your life.
Good post, thanks for sharing.
A dead KIMBER

[Unclenick]

When I had a case burst like that in my Springfield back in '92, it blew enough brass particles back into my face through the gaps in the slide and frame fit that it caused a puncture in my cheek and a doctor had to open it up and dig the brass out. The powder marked my glasses well enough that I know I would have suffered serious eye injury were I not wearing them.

My gun was shooting 225 grain LRN's with PB. If you are using Bullseye or Unique or 231, a double-charge fits easily. However, you also can double pressure pretty easily if a bullet is pushed back into the case far enough. The case wall thicken near the head, so this is difficult, but with a light, short bullet it can happen. Not normally a problem with jacketed bullets unless you have loose cases (Remington are prone to work hardening until they spring back too far from sizing to provide adequate neck tension). But with lubricated lead bullets, getting that taper crimp to dig a little into the lead is important.

[Tommy Vercetti]

basically double charged cartridges? maybe I've been misinformed but don't most guns get test fired with proof loads before being shipped from the factory? not that I'm in any hurry to shoot proof loads

[Sevens]

When I was a new shooter, I always wore ear protection, and never ever wore eye protection. Simply put, my ears hurt from the loud bang, but there was no problem if I shot without glasses.

At some point, I got smarter. I think I was about 25 or so when I tried some shooting glasses and liked 'em. Hell, it was just about a year ago I actually tried some amber shooting glasses and really liked them even more.

As for your buddy, help us learn from his misfortune-- any more info would be great. What was the intended load? How long has be been a handloader? what was his equipment, procedure? Would you say he's the careful type, a careless type, or neither of the two?

After all these years, I'm still loading all my stuff single stage. The methods that I use are very, VERY good at guarding against a double charge.

[Unclenick]

Tommy,

Proof loads are typically only about 130% over maximum pressure (125%-140% depending on the standard used). A double-charge (dispensed twice as much powder into the case as normal) can raise pressure 400%.

[Glenner]

I'll give him a call and find out what he was using. Here's what I do know. He said it was a 5.3 grain load with a 230 round nose jacketed bullet, loaded on a Dillon 550. I think he uses 231 poweder.
I know I've come close to double charging with my 550, I'd get a primer stuck or some other problem like that. After I get restarted, I'd charge the case again. I suspect something like this got him. You have to be SOOO careful with every step.

[Peakbagr]

I load .45ACP with Bullseye. At 3.5gr to 3.8gr of Bullseye, the powder fills less than half of the case. I always flashlight my charged rounds before seating on a single stage press. A double charge of Bullseye would be a big KABOOM.

I'm shortly going to a progressive press and have an RCBS lock out die that I'll be using to check for under or over charged loads.

[flashhole]

Sorry about your buddy's misfortune but glad he's alright. I generally batch load like Ozzieman and do one step at a time and am overly conscious about powder charging. Mostly I do it by hand using a Lee Dipper Cup, even when running on my Lee Classic Cast Turret press with the auto indexing engaged. Filling the case is not the most economical way to reload but it is good practice to select a powder that provides a full case, that way you can never seriously overcharge one. I figure the pros use a full case of powder for a good reason so I try and emulate their practice. I load for all my rifles but will be jumping into 40 S&W as soon as I pick up the components. I intend to use a powder that provides good case fill to avoid your firends mishap if in fact he double charged a case.

Wearing glasses is not always convienient but you never know what might go wrong. Over the summer I had a 223 case split at the primer pocket on one of my handloads and gasses blew back in my face. I'd have taken an eye hit for sure had I not been wearing glasses, as it was I ended up getting stung on my cheek and forehead. It's a real eye opener (no pun intended) when something like that happens. I even wear some kind of glasses when I'm hunting.

[Gregory_k]

With some of today's low vol powder you can put 3 charges in a 45 case and still seat the bullet.

best feature of the dillion650 I like is the powder check feature. it checks for gross powder errors ie no powder or double charge or more.

[Glenner]

I checked with my buddy, he opened all the loads from the batch he ran. They were all loaded at 10.7 grains of 231. He checked out his loader and the charger was set at 10.7 grains. He has no idea how he let this happen, he knows that this should have been a 5 to 5.3 load. This was not a case of double charging, he just plain old set the thing up for 10.7 grains.
I've shot with this guy for 10 years, he's been loading for more than 30 years.
He's not some goofy dipstick that does dumb stuff, he's a sharp guy,he's loaded everything from shotguns to high power as well as pistols,it's just a case of a guy that should have checked and rechecked what he was doing, but did not.
I think I will put some safety valves into my loading routine so I can avoid this mistake.

[lookylou]

I too load 50 cases with powder, then check them with a flashlight, for obvious double charges or missed charges before seating bullets.
I now use a Lyman 1200 DPS 3 charge system. But anything can fail.

[WESHOOT2]

I use process to eliminate errors.
Because I learned.
And I have.

But safety glasses are mandatory, shooting or loading. Mandatory.

[GoldenRoyBoy]

You know guys, this story is not unique; it happens a lot. About four years ago, a good friend of mine (much like yours Glenner) called me over to do some shooting. He was shooting a Para -Ordinance. Rick's very first shot, he's late 60s by the way sounded much too powerful; a 45acp. And yes, I told him so. Instead of heeding all the pressure signs, my buddy continued to shoot. He never liked that pistol; and made it known big time. He reloaded, just like me; using Hornady's LNL progressive. Well, the little jewel of a semi never blew up; but it did develope a crack 'fore the receiver. Lucky for my buddy, Para-O fixed it free of charge. I later acquired it for a song, and a dance; wish I still had it.

I hate to say it. But, one of the best/worse things (safety-wise) that ever happened to reloading is/was/were Progressive Presses! We all know who advertises being able to load "so" many ridiculous rounds with their blue wonders! I learned, being safety conscious "not" to load progressively at all. I like stages. I loaded/shot 45acps today. First thing I do after shooting is to size/deprime/prime/bell throat/tumble. I'm then ready to load a tray of 50, or so; pulling out my ChargeMasters 1500s, and run/load powder, carefully watching each charge. I then proceed back to my LNL Progress., seating, taper crimping my fifty, or a 100 rounds. Yes, it's a little tedious; but what the hay? 50 to 100 rounds is generally all I need to shoot; and I don't like a lot of loaded ammo occupying my shelves. Those mechanical powder chargers I have no less than three of? Packed away; should sell them.

10.7 grams of 231 is a lot in a 45acp case. I'm surprised your buddy didn't notice.

I'm glad no one was seriously hurt.
I'll probably be the next one to blow something up; watch me.
GRB

[Sevens]

I can agree that it's easier to be safe with regards to powder charge with single stage. But likening a progressive machine to poor safety is kind of like saying that modern cars kill more people than Model T's did because they go so much faster. There are definitely more people getting killed in cars these days than in the early 1900s, but the cars aren't the reason. It's the drivers.

Progressive presses used properly are an incredible tool, and the fact that a few guys have screwed up while using them just can't take away from the fact that a good progressive press is one helluva good tool.

As for the guy who was dumping 10.7 grains, I seriously doubt he set that thing up to load 10.7 grains of ANYTHING. He probably set it up with a different powder to dump a charge of a different powder for a different caliber, and forgot to change it. Either that or it somehow got mal-adjusted and made a whole box with that improper adjustment.

It's a gargantuan red flag. I wouldn't handload another round until I figured out how it happened and how to prevent it. I'd also be pulling a whole crapload of reloads to make sure a similar error didn't happen somewhere else.

It's a serious business this hobby of ours!

[snuffy]

I'm ashamed to report this. But just to emphasize, IT CAN HAPPEN TO ANYBODY! Now, some here know me, from my posts. I've got over 40 years experience, so I'm not new at this. Enough about that, here's some pics;









This case must look a great deal like the case that glenner witnessed.

As for me and my pistol, both are fine, no damage. I had some powder gases hit my hands, making black marks on them. At first they stung a bit. I must wear glasses to see, blind as a bat without them. I had some crap hit my cheek just under the lenses, it burned for about 4-5 hours, There was some stuff on my lenses as well. The pistol in question is a SA 1911. It has rubber grips, so they weren't hurt. It was jammed tight, couldn't get 'er open. No tools along that day.

At home the brass rod came out, tapping on it on the case web down the barrel got it open easily. The top two shells in the mag were smoked pretty bad, the top one had the bullet shoved back into the case.

Now, what happened? I'm not totally sure. I was doing a load development using a surplus powder I got form Jeff Bartlett @ GI brass. He named it NM-04. He said it was a Chinese powder made for some loading company, it was an over-run of said powder. It has a burn rate that uses data for either green dot or dupont PB. I've used it using that data for shotgun and handguns.

I started at 4.9 grains, then 5.2, then 5.4, to finish at 5.6. I got those numbers from the Lyman cast bullet handbook. The bullet I was loading is extreme,(west coast), 200 SWC. The first one at 4.9 blew the case!

I was loading using my lee classic turret, with the lee disc measure. Trying each cavity until I reached the 4.9 load, then increased one cavity larger at a time to the top load.

After inspecting/cleaning the gun, I pulled ALL the shells using my hammer type puller. I then dropped way down to 3.8, then 4.0, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6, then 4.9. Yesterday I tested those again, all went well INCLUDING the 4.9 load! 3.8 load wouldn't reliably work the action, jams, FTF. 4.0 wasn't much better and accuracy @ 50 ft. was lousy. 4.6 and 4.9 were snappy, but no where near a full load, and the 4.9 load was a much tighter group.

My guess is that I double charged that one shell. I was going between my press to the scale on another shelf, to weigh each charge. I must have dumped the powder back into the case, then charged it again when returning to the loader. Using the top charge of 5.6 grains as max, a double 4.8 charge is 4.0 over max. (4.8 x 2 is 9.6)

Oh the normal looking case in the pics is one of the 4.9 loads I shot yesterday, notice the low pressure looking primer.

[HiBC]

We are all fallible.Having enough humility(experience) to know it CAN happen to me goes a long way toward not getting hurt.
Glad all you got was a broken gun and some good experience.

[Jim Watson]

They were all loaded at 10.7 grains of 231. He checked out his loader and the charger was set at 10.7 grains.

Wonder if he changed scales lately? There are balance beam scales that have 5 grain notches and scales that have 10 grain notches. Easy to get 5 grains off that way.

[Alleykat]

I always check my powder drop for accuracy, using digital scales, before and during every loading session. I also like the RCBS Lockout Die.

[Ozzieman]

Even factory ammo can have problems, read the following. This happened to me Thursday.
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=329137

[Streetking]

what powder was he using?

[Glenner]

snuffy,
That case looks exactly like the one I saw today.......
I'm glad to hear all is well.

[James K]

10.7 grains of 231 would blow any .45. I would suspect that he didn't set the measure up for that; he was loading some other powder and never changed the setting, a fairly common mistake.

To show what can occur, I have a friend who is a very precise reloader and weighs EVERY charge. But a while back, he moved his loading bench and started having problems with erratic loadings. Some he caught, but one resulted in an obvious overload at the range, though no harm done to shooter or gun.

We went over everything with the proverbial fine-tooth comb. No problems and every charge checked out with another scale.

The answer was a while coming, but here it is:

When he moved his bench, he placed it over a heating vent. The way he had his shelves at the back, the air came up between the bench and the wall and was directed onto the pan of his scale. If the heating/air conditioning was off, everything was fine, but if the air was blowing, it hit the bottom of the pan and it took an extra amount of powder to get a balance. He didn't want to move the bench, but placing it tightly against the wall and adding a baffle to the vent took care of the problem.

Jim

[Hawg]

Even factory ammo can have problems,

True. I gutted a Marlin model 60 with an apparent double charged Federal once. Was a long time before I used Federal again but it's good ammo for the money and anybody can make a mistake. I'm still leery of using it in semi's tho. As for my reloads I use a single stage press and take my time. I drop a charge and immediately seat the bullet. I don't charge a bunch of cases and then seat them. It may take me a lot longer to load a box but so far I've had no problems at all(knock on wood)with my reloads and I've been doing it for over 30 years.

[Mal H]

Originally Posted by Glenner

Neither of us were wearing safety glasses ...

In my book, that's the worst thing you said in the post. A loading accident can happen, a Kimber can be replaced, you and your friend's eyes can't.