hunting with match king?

deerhunter101 · June 29, 2011, 11:21 PM

is it practical to hunt with sierra match king bullets? they are HPBT bullets so they should expand and not just punch right? talking around 2800 fps MV

deerhunter101 · June 30, 2011, 12:25 AM

anyone?

trg42wraglefragle · June 30, 2011, 12:46 AM

Depend what your shooting and what caliber your using.
Generally speaking they are not ok for hunting, they might be hollow point but its not I normally hunting hollow point, they are not designed to expand upon impact, the hollow point is to make the bullet more accurate.

Yes you could kill small game with it, but anything will tear them apart, but for larger game they wont be much better than FMJs, as they are basically a FMJ round.
I think law enforcement and military snipers use them, but a human is completely different to most animals.
If you want a high BC bullet for hunting check out Berger bullets.

Check this link out
http://www.jacksonrifles.com/vldvarmints.htm

As you can see they work, but the expansion of the bullet is very minimal, so shot placement would have to be perfect.
But like with that crow, any large caliber bullet will kill something that small.

Come and take it. · June 30, 2011, 04:04 AM

they will zip right through small animals like a needle if you are referring to 308 matchking.

ace4059 · June 30, 2011, 04:35 AM

Use sierra game king for hunting. They are almost as accurate as the match king but will have better expansion.

LSnSC · June 30, 2011, 05:47 AM

My experiences have been just the opposite. 168gr Match Kings have explosive expansion on deer. Caliber in and the size of your fist if it exits.

PawPaw · June 30, 2011, 06:04 AM

It's my understanding that the hollowpoint on a Matchking is an artifact of the manufacturing process, not a design feature to promote expansion. However, it is a hollow point, but the bullet itself is not designed to expand. It's a match bullet.

I also knew guys who would (back in the late '50s) grind the tips off surplus FMJ bullets and use them for hunting. Tales abounded of guys who shot those bullets, having the core of the bullet "squirt out", leaving the jacket lodged in the bore. I helped section a barrel that had gone south and we actually found a jacket ironed into the bore. The guy had been grinding tips to make hunting ammo, had a core separate in the barrel . The next round went through the jacket and subsequent rounds ironed it into the bore. No wonder the accuracy died. Probably the worst case of copper fouling I've ever seen. The shooter was lucky, unbelievably lucky. Don't get me wrong, it was a fairly common practice and stories abounded, but this was the only example I know of where it actually happened. Someone put that section of barrel on a board and it hung in the reloading room of the club for many years.

I know that the Army uses Matchkings to shoot at meat targets, but they use that bullet to promote accuracy, not expansion. I'm sure that we can find examples where hunters are using Matchkings to take deer. With the smallish deer I hunt, if I slip a 168 grain bullet into its ribs, it's going to leave a mark.

Sierra doesn't recommend it and neither do I. I use Matchkings for paper, Gamekings or Pro-Hunters for meat. They're all great bullets and fly to very nearly the same POI. Generally after a summer of shooting Matchkings, I'll switch to one of the others for hunting and only need to make a very small adjustment to my scope.

Mobuck · June 30, 2011, 06:30 AM

I agree with PawPaw. There are so many excellent hunting bullets available now that there's no reason to use a target/match bullet for big game. I used Hornady match bullets in a 22/250 for coyote hunting many years ago for their explosive expansion.
The Nosler BT is usually as accurate as most can shoot in a hunting situation and provides excellent performance on deer sized game. The Sierra Game King as mentioned is adequately accurate and is designed for use on light/medium game.
There will probably be 1/2 dozen comments on how good the target bullets work on game but I just don't see it that way. It may work most of the time but do you want to waste an animal because the bullet didn't work that one time out of 100?

oneoldsap · June 30, 2011, 07:13 AM

A real Sportsman will use a proper hunting Bullet !

geetarman · June 30, 2011, 07:25 AM

Nice post Paw Paw. I look forward to reading your responses.

Geetarman

Art Eatman · June 30, 2011, 08:12 AM

Grinding the tips from GI bullets was said to be fairly common during the 1930s Depression. There was the occasional Oops! as PawPaw described.

I've never failed to get sub-MOA groups from any Sierra Game King bullet in 30-caliber, .243 or .22 centerfires. Never lost an animal from poor bullet performance, either.

mavracer · June 30, 2011, 08:33 AM

Quote:

A real Sportsman will use a proper hunting Bullet !

+1 for the quick/clean kill the ethical hunter will use the bullet that is designed to do just that.

Gunplummer · June 30, 2011, 08:44 AM

I did not want to reload for a 6.8 SPC I was putting together and it was almost time to hunt out of state and I could not find ammo. I did buy some in a black box (forget the name) and they were some type of police rounds. They were hollow points so I used them. It looked like I threw a softball through the side of the deer. I don't know what would have happened if I had hit a solid bone, maybe a bad hit with not enough penetration?

Come and take it. · June 30, 2011, 09:43 AM

I tend to think they filed off a bit more than they should have. I dont see how exposing just a small amount of lead at the very tip of a fmj is going to cause core seperation.

Considering that some Russian made hollow points have a lead base.

I take the matchkings of mine and slightly modify the bullets by filing the down a tad and than drilling out the hole some more. I use a caliper and its depth gauge to measure overall length and hollow point depth.

Matchkings on a deer may do better because the round has time to yaw and fragment but wont travel nose first and mushroom like the typical hunting bullet.

It takes 2 milk jugs back to back to get an exploding milk jug in the second one. one milk jug will just leak from a matchking.

deerhunter101 · June 30, 2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

A real Sportsman will use a proper hunting Bullet !

thats why i wanted to check before i bought! im new to reloading and i heard these are incredibly accurate so i wanted to know. judging by this thread i WILL NOT be using them to hunt

FrontSight · June 30, 2011, 02:26 PM

Quote:

I tend to think they filed off a bit more than they should have. I dont see how exposing just a small amount of lead at the very tip of a fmj is going to cause core seperation.

This seems to make a lot of sense to me...

Unless all soft tips bullets are bonded - and many are not - then this would have been a problem for all older type, non bonded soft tips , no?

Or am I missing something?

sc928porsche · June 30, 2011, 02:39 PM

The most common method to make a FMJ expand was to take a knife and put a + in the tip. The military referred to them as dum dums. However I was led to understand that there were severe consequences for being caugh with them in battle. Oh yes, by the way, it does make them expand.

Rusty W · June 30, 2011, 06:50 PM

I don't know about the bigger calibers but the 52gr Matchking HPBT does this to crows at about 150yds leaving the barrel at about 3600fps in my Savage 22-250. The one on the top was shot with a shotgun, the one on the bottom with the 22-250 52gr, MK.

WildBill45 · June 30, 2011, 10:36 PM

Boat tail bullets are poor big game hunting bullets. They are not bonded in any way, and come apart upon impact if used at close ranges, such as 0 to 200 yards or so... They blow up on elk shoulders, I have seen it. Stick to bonded bullets or at least partition style bullets for big game. If you shooting 100 pound Texas Whitetail, maybe they may work, but why take the chance.

Art Eatman · July 1, 2011, 08:35 AM

101, for hunting purposes, there are many bullets which are as usefully accurate as match bullets.

In a thread here, many years back, a Sierra guy chimed in about their bullets. In 30-caliber, the 150-grain soft-point boat-tail will indeed fragment at impact velocities above some 2,700 ft/sec, as I had found with a 30-yard shot on a mule deer. The impact velocity was likely around 3,000. He said that a flat-based bullet would not have had the problem. (It didn't really matter at the time; I had center-punched Bambi's neck and he lay back down where he'd been.) But I load the boat-tails because of a strong possibility of 400-yard shots where I hunt.

Many good bullets besides Sierras, of course. I guess I drifted into using them because of the pretty green box, but the results have been quite good for some forty years--so why worry?

Sub-MOA and a fair number of dead critters...

Saltydog235 · July 1, 2011, 09:03 AM

Sierra says no, bullet isn't designed for that. So no.

WildBill45 · July 1, 2011, 10:40 AM

Quote:

But I load the boat-tails because of a strong possibility of 400-yard shots where I hunt.

I have made many shots much farther than that in Colorado with quality flat bottom bullets, which is standard for reliable hunting bullets. 400 yards is the norm, not the exception, in Meeker Colorado...

But, and there always is a but in life, at 400 yards the boat tails are not as much of a problem with the loss of velocity! I used Partitions then, and North Folk or Swift bullets now. I am mainly concerned with the close shot on big game. If you ever tracked a big bull elk down into an endless valley ... then packed it back up and out ... you too would switch to quality bullets!

Wyosmith · July 1, 2011, 10:45 AM

I have seen it done about 20 times with deer, a few antelope and 2 elk
The results were ALWAYS somewhere between "so-so" to very poor.
Don't use them on game!
The people that make them want to sell them, and THEY say don't I think we should listen.

WildBill45 · July 1, 2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Use sierra game king for hunting. They are almost as accurate as the match king

That accuracy is only for the sand bag guys. People post photos of groups shot from the sandbag, which is fine to judge the bullet and rifle, but in the real world it matters little in most cases! Most rifles, even the least expensive can out shoot the best shooters in the field. Shooting offhand at 11,000 feet in the mountains, with the winds, distances required, and your heart pumping like a Shelby Cobra fuel pump, those paper groups are but a mere dream.

A rifle that shoots 2-inch groups at 100 all day as a minimum, with a great off hand shooter will take game all day. A rifle with .50 inch groups from the bag, in these conditions with a shooter who can't shoot great off hand will not. The requirements of a hunting bullet is to stop the game now, it is the humane way to do business. Bullets that blow up, even if they will die sometime--probably miles away--or hunters who cannot shoot well from hunting situations, are not humane.

Practice till you drop, and then some more, then consider the bullet type. Once you can deliver "any" bullet in the vitals at 100, 200 or even 300 off hand, then hunt at the limitations which were become apparent rather quickly once you leave the sand bags behind. Never hunt if you only sighted in on the bags. It is your moral duty to practice from hunting positions to ensure your best shot in the field! When you have done so, select a hunting bullet, not a target bullet--save that one to impress your shooting club buddies only....

Everyone can shoot better with support ... a tree, stump, bipod, but, and there always is a but in life, hunting presents unseen challenges, which is why it is fun, and when that Royal Elk pops out of the brush, and your bipod is not set as you are walking and winded at high elevation, and there are no trees above tree line, and no stumps, you MUST shoot offhand, or TELL ANOTHER LIE, about how the big one got away, because it would be embarrassing to tell everyone that you really can't shoot without support! PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE! One who shoots great without support is the master with it!

HiBC · July 1, 2011, 12:42 PM

Good points,WildBill.
I will also suggest you take advantage of the manufacturer's recomendations.
Isn't it great the mfg's have refined the bullet so far?
You guys who wonder about modifying ball ammo,it is open based.The core is simply swaged in place,it is not bonded.If the bore to jacket friction exceeds the core to jacket friction,the core will blow out.(Yes,over simplified,the ogive gets pushed through,too)Open point bullets,the jacket is a cup with a closed base.The pressure never reaches the core to blow it out.
Modding an MK?Why?You won't keep the accuracy and BC you bought the MK for.
I like the Sierra Bullet co,they make fine bullets.I also like the choices offered by Nosler.I can shift between the Custom Competition,Ballistic Tip,and Accubond,depending on my target.

June 29, 2011, 11:21 PM	#1
deerhunter101 Junior Member Join Date: June 29, 2011 Location: St. Charles, Missouri Posts: 12	hunting with match king? is it practical to hunt with sierra match king bullets? they are HPBT bullets so they should expand and not just punch right? talking around 2800 fps MV __________________ My baby: Browning A-Bolt .308 On the way: Savage 110BA .338 Lapua Just for fun: S & W model 77a .22 pellet rifle

June 30, 2011, 12:25 AM	#2
deerhunter101 Junior Member Join Date: June 29, 2011 Location: St. Charles, Missouri Posts: 12	anyone? __________________ My baby: Browning A-Bolt .308 On the way: Savage 110BA .338 Lapua Just for fun: S & W model 77a .22 pellet rifle

June 30, 2011, 06:04 AM	#7
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	It's my understanding that the hollowpoint on a Matchking is an artifact of the manufacturing process, not a design feature to promote expansion. However, it is a hollow point, but the bullet itself is not designed to expand. It's a match bullet. I also knew guys who would (back in the late '50s) grind the tips off surplus FMJ bullets and use them for hunting. Tales abounded of guys who shot those bullets, having the core of the bullet "squirt out", leaving the jacket lodged in the bore. I helped section a barrel that had gone south and we actually found a jacket ironed into the bore. The guy had been grinding tips to make hunting ammo, had a core separate in the barrel . The next round went through the jacket and subsequent rounds ironed it into the bore. No wonder the accuracy died. Probably the worst case of copper fouling I've ever seen. The shooter was lucky, unbelievably lucky. Don't get me wrong, it was a fairly common practice and stories abounded, but this was the only example I know of where it actually happened. Someone put that section of barrel on a board and it hung in the reloading room of the club for many years. I know that the Army uses Matchkings to shoot at meat targets, but they use that bullet to promote accuracy, not expansion. I'm sure that we can find examples where hunters are using Matchkings to take deer. With the smallish deer I hunt, if I slip a 168 grain bullet into its ribs, it's going to leave a mark. Sierra doesn't recommend it and neither do I. I use Matchkings for paper, Gamekings or Pro-Hunters for meat. They're all great bullets and fly to very nearly the same POI. Generally after a summer of shooting Matchkings, I'll switch to one of the others for hunting and only need to make a very small adjustment to my scope. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

June 30, 2011, 02:39 PM	#17
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	The most common method to make a FMJ expand was to take a knife and put a + in the tip. The military referred to them as dum dums. However I was led to understand that there were severe consequences for being caugh with them in battle. Oh yes, by the way, it does make them expand. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

June 30, 2011, 10:36 PM	#19
WildBill45 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2011 Location: Western PA. Posts: 1,630	Boat tail bullets are poor big game hunting bullets. They are not bonded in any way, and come apart upon impact if used at close ranges, such as 0 to 200 yards or so... They blow up on elk shoulders, I have seen it. Stick to bonded bullets or at least partition style bullets for big game. If you shooting 100 pound Texas Whitetail, maybe they may work, but why take the chance. __________________ ......................................................... "If Ands and Buts were Candy and Nuts, everyday would be like Christmas"

June 30, 2011, 12:46 AM	#3
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	Depend what your shooting and what caliber your using. Generally speaking they are not ok for hunting, they might be hollow point but its not I normally hunting hollow point, they are not designed to expand upon impact, the hollow point is to make the bullet more accurate. Yes you could kill small game with it, but anything will tear them apart, but for larger game they wont be much better than FMJs, as they are basically a FMJ round. I think law enforcement and military snipers use them, but a human is completely different to most animals. If you want a high BC bullet for hunting check out Berger bullets. Check this link out http://www.jacksonrifles.com/vldvarmints.htm As you can see they work, but the expansion of the bullet is very minimal, so shot placement would have to be perfect. But like with that crow, any large caliber bullet will kill something that small.

June 30, 2011, 04:04 AM	#4
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	they will zip right through small animals like a needle if you are referring to 308 matchking.

June 30, 2011, 04:35 AM	#5
ace4059 Member Join Date: October 5, 2010 Location: Wichita Falls, Tx Posts: 94	Use sierra game king for hunting. They are almost as accurate as the match king but will have better expansion.

June 30, 2011, 05:47 AM	#6
LSnSC Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2010 Posts: 514	My experiences have been just the opposite. 168gr Match Kings have explosive expansion on deer. Caliber in and the size of your fist if it exits.

June 30, 2011, 06:30 AM	#8
Mobuck Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2010 Posts: 6,846	I agree with PawPaw. There are so many excellent hunting bullets available now that there's no reason to use a target/match bullet for big game. I used Hornady match bullets in a 22/250 for coyote hunting many years ago for their explosive expansion. The Nosler BT is usually as accurate as most can shoot in a hunting situation and provides excellent performance on deer sized game. The Sierra Game King as mentioned is adequately accurate and is designed for use on light/medium game. There will probably be 1/2 dozen comments on how good the target bullets work on game but I just don't see it that way. It may work most of the time but do you want to waste an animal because the bullet didn't work that one time out of 100?

June 30, 2011, 07:13 AM	#9
oneoldsap Senior Member Join Date: September 16, 2009 Location: I live in the foot of the Green Mountains of Vermont Posts: 1,602	A real Sportsman will use a proper hunting Bullet !

June 30, 2011, 07:25 AM	#10
geetarman Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,157	Nice post Paw Paw. I look forward to reading your responses. Geetarman

June 30, 2011, 08:12 AM	#11
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Grinding the tips from GI bullets was said to be fairly common during the 1930s Depression. There was the occasional Oops! as PawPaw described. I've never failed to get sub-MOA groups from any Sierra Game King bullet in 30-caliber, .243 or .22 centerfires. Never lost an animal from poor bullet performance, either.

June 30, 2011, 08:44 AM	#13
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	I did not want to reload for a 6.8 SPC I was putting together and it was almost time to hunt out of state and I could not find ammo. I did buy some in a black box (forget the name) and they were some type of police rounds. They were hollow points so I used them. It looked like I threw a softball through the side of the deer. I don't know what would have happened if I had hit a solid bone, maybe a bad hit with not enough penetration?

June 30, 2011, 09:43 AM	#14
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	I tend to think they filed off a bit more than they should have. I dont see how exposing just a small amount of lead at the very tip of a fmj is going to cause core seperation. Considering that some Russian made hollow points have a lead base. I take the matchkings of mine and slightly modify the bullets by filing the down a tad and than drilling out the hole some more. I use a caliper and its depth gauge to measure overall length and hollow point depth. Matchkings on a deer may do better because the round has time to yaw and fragment but wont travel nose first and mushroom like the typical hunting bullet. It takes 2 milk jugs back to back to get an exploding milk jug in the second one. one milk jug will just leak from a matchking.

July 1, 2011, 08:35 AM	#20
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	101, for hunting purposes, there are many bullets which are as usefully accurate as match bullets. In a thread here, many years back, a Sierra guy chimed in about their bullets. In 30-caliber, the 150-grain soft-point boat-tail will indeed fragment at impact velocities above some 2,700 ft/sec, as I had found with a 30-yard shot on a mule deer. The impact velocity was likely around 3,000. He said that a flat-based bullet would not have had the problem. (It didn't really matter at the time; I had center-punched Bambi's neck and he lay back down where he'd been.) But I load the boat-tails because of a strong possibility of 400-yard shots where I hunt. Many good bullets besides Sierras, of course. I guess I drifted into using them because of the pretty green box, but the results have been quite good for some forty years--so why worry? Sub-MOA and a fair number of dead critters...

July 1, 2011, 09:03 AM	#21
Saltydog235 Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2010 Location: Pawleys Island Posts: 1,563	Sierra says no, bullet isn't designed for that. So no.

July 1, 2011, 10:45 AM	#23
Wyosmith Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2010 Location: Shoshoni Wyoming Posts: 2,713	I have seen it done about 20 times with deer, a few antelope and 2 elk The results were ALWAYS somewhere between "so-so" to very poor. Don't use them on game! The people that make them want to sell them, and THEY say don't I think we should listen.

July 1, 2011, 12:42 PM	#25
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,287	Good points,WildBill. I will also suggest you take advantage of the manufacturer's recomendations. Isn't it great the mfg's have refined the bullet so far? You guys who wonder about modifying ball ammo,it is open based.The core is simply swaged in place,it is not bonded.If the bore to jacket friction exceeds the core to jacket friction,the core will blow out.(Yes,over simplified,the ogive gets pushed through,too)Open point bullets,the jacket is a cup with a closed base.The pressure never reaches the core to blow it out. Modding an MK?Why?You won't keep the accuracy and BC you bought the MK for. I like the Sierra Bullet co,they make fine bullets.I also like the choices offered by Nosler.I can shift between the Custom Competition,Ballistic Tip,and Accubond,depending on my target.