Run in with a vagrant

[vox rationis]

When they approach me I just put on a thick Eastern Euro accent put on a really dour facial expression and say "No Speak da English", that usually does the trick.

p.s. good job OP

[moga]

The one that annoys me no end is panhandlers who approach you while you're pumping gas. You're pretty much a captive audience, got your hands full. You're forced to be out of your vehicle, and they're out of the manangement's realm of control.

Self-serve gas stations these days have become the "new hangout" for transients, vagrants, panhandlers. Management does nothing to discourage them.

+1

There are whole swaths of shopping districts that I avoid because of this trend. I just don't patronize places that have homeless ppl milling around. Period. Which means in south Atlanta, I drive four or five miles out of the city (literally) to do most of my shopping, whether it be for petro, beer, groceries, or ammo.

The other tactic that panhandlers here favor is to hang out at a major intersection, like where a freeway lets off onto a major highway. At that time, there are dozens, if not a hundred or more, cars lined up to await the turning of the traffic light. While the cars are stationary, the beggers go from window to window, when there is no where to go to avoid the contact. I detest this one the most. With all the carjackings that happen here, it is really not advisable to get into the habit of allowing people to approach the driver's side door.

Sometimes avoiding eye contact, using a firm tone, and strong body language is enough to deter any further contact with these people. Yet, I consider every exchange with them to be an "interview" during which time they're trying to decide whether I am an easy mark. I do all that I need to to help them make up their mind, including going out of my way to avoid them and aggressively using my vehicle to make them keep their distance when I can't, if it means that I don't have to use my firearm.

[quinn2187]

i am just curious, if the guy came at you with no weapon in his hand what were you going to do with the knife?

[Socrates]

Walking down 8th street a guy walked up to my girlfriend and punched her in the face. No reason. Pretty clear he was homeless from the situation.
I was NOT there.

Pepper spray is with me, most of the time. The way things are going, I have to say,

"But for the Grace of God, that could be me."

A LOT of people that should be in mental institutions are released by the current system.

Of the resources in San Francisco, about 40% of the crime is homeless on homeless. Most of it never makes it to trial, since the injured party doesn't want to be in court, terrified due to prior experience. Also, the witness credibility is a serious problem as well.

With a 48% overall conviction rate, you can imagine what the homeless conviction rate is.

[hogdogs]

Quinn, I cannot speak for the OP... But for me I would use the knife to cut 'em wide and deep! They need not have a "weapon" to justify lethal force.
Brent

[quinn2187]

its true that they don't, but unless you can absolutly elaborate (probably spelled wrong) why you felt your life was threatened then you are now listed as the suspect and the bum as the victim on the report. don't get me wrong i am all for defending yourself. but the courts do not find that just cause a homeless guy charges you that it justifies lethal force.

[Brit]

Put the Company Ball Cap on, stop at intersection, look them right in the eye! Never had one come up to me.

[KUHIO]

Quinn- what hogdogs said.

[quinn2187]

thats fine just as you understand that you stand a good chance of facing charges for gutting someone with only the knowledge that he was "charging" you.

[Pbearperry]

I tell the bums that I am out of work and can hardly afford ammunition for my gun.

[hogdogs]

He wasn't simply "charging me"... It is more like this "I was being accosted/assaulted physically and feared that my inaction would result in grave injury or death to me or those I am expected to protect from such attacks..."
Brent

[KUHIO]

Quinn- I don't have to justify that MY life was in danger. I was with elderly family members that could have easily been victimized by this scum. I absolutely would have stabbed that man had he gotten physically violent with anyone. I didn't know if he had any weapons, did he display one no, but that doesn't mean he didn't have one. I carry concealed, just because I don't wave my gun around doesn't mean it's not sitting on my hip under a jacket. I make no assumptions when it comes to dealing with people like that. If you have a problem with that, that's fine. And I can't really picture the DA sympathizing with a violent hobo, but that's just me.


And the bottom line is, I didn't stab him, ultimately nothing happened, if you read the whole post you'd know the cops didn't have a problem with any of it, so where were you going with this.....

[KUHIO]

I don't expect everyone to agree with how I handled it. But I did what I felt I needed to. Was it the best way? Who can say, but in the end it was resolved without injury on either side. Many would be pleased with those results

[guntotinguy]

It was YOUR situation...no one else here was with you,and knowing how this city has become,I think you did the right thing by at least covering yourself and the others with you.

And for some to realize,some of those called vagrants here ARE ARMED...I have seen it myself,not all that far from the shooting range.

[quinn2187]

don't take me wrong i am not saying you did anything wrong. in my work i have seen similar cases and seen would-be victims become defendants because of liberal prosecutors and juries. i am a firm believer that a show of force will stop a lot of violent confrontations. just nned to be able to explain why a would be physical confrontation turned into lethal force thats all. it also depends on how much press an incident gets. believe it or not the local media can force the courts hand. its not right, but it happens.

[Rufkarma]

All,

I believe with the rizing unemployment and benefits running out we may all see much more of this business by people not normally prone to this behavior.

I'm torn by people in need vice those willing to go "too far" to get something of mine.

I carry within the law as my CCW permit allows; but . . . when I'm by myself I'm not too worried as my situational awareness is pretty good. But when my family is with me it's more to watch and direct. My kids are teenagers and always say I'm too worried - doesn't change what I do. My wife knows better and knows when I turn serious (she was around during my Dep. Sher. days).

Long story, short point - keep your situational awareness waaaay up; avoid places that you know or believe are bad choices; know your escape routes; teach your family how to react; have a plan b and a plan c.

This is going to get worse. Know when to get ugly.

"Your best defense is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation."

[txbirddog]

quinn, you need to move to Texas and you won't have to worry about that. Here if I feel my life is in danger, and my attorney states that fact, I can protect my life and my family's.

The main problem here is you are assuming that there was no "weapon" in his concealed pocket. If it keeps escalating, and he has one, YOU WOULD DEFINATELY have lives in danger.

Now think about this,,,,if I was a criminal I would be waiting to approach (accost) my victims in a "Guns Free Zone". This example really goes to this point!!!!!!

[Socrates]

We had a homeless guy shoot a police dog, and kill it, and, shoot two officers as well. Fine when he was on his medication, delusional otherwise. Our super strict San Francisco gun laws, and Kali laws, did nothing to stop him from getting a gun, serving 6 years, and, being up for mandatory parole, due to his 'good behavior' on medication. Problem is, when he's out, he stops taking it.

There was, IIRC, a case where a 56 year old teacher was rushed by a bum on a jogging path in Arizona, pulled and fired, and, he was convicted of either murder or manslaughter. If someone can help me out with facts on that, it would be nice. Only saw the press reports on this one.

Merry Christmas

[WhiteH2OWoman]

Kuhio, I think you did good. Trust your instincts--if you think he was intent on getting to your female relatives, he probably WAS.

Only thing I'd have done differently would have been to have gotten in the car after everyone else was safely in and either left or sat there, doors locked, until police arrived. (Of course, had you left, you wouldn't have been able to point him out to the police, which probably helped other potential victims...)

Y'all are going to hate this, but ever since the liberal City of Austin passed it's "you can't give money to panhandlers" ordinance, I have reacted to this "nanny-state" attempt to dictate how I spend/give my money by keeping a stash of $1 bills and Bible tracts in my truck to give to the harmless-looking (yes, I'm aware that the operative word here is "LOOKING", but I'm armed and trained to the teeth) ones at intersections every single time I go into Austin.

In fact, it give me great joy to thumb my nose at the over-the-hill, "we're oh-so-hip-and-cool-and-tolerant-except-when-it-inconveniences-us" hippies who run Austin.

[Brit]

Panhandlers
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tell the bums that I am out of work and can hardly afford ammunition for my gun.

That's a good one!

[Socrates]

The Perfect Answer!!

[quinn2187]

first off your lawyer saying that you feared for your life is not proof to a jury. second i don't care if you would have used lethal force just as long as your ok going to prison, because that is what happens to people that gut others just because "they think that they might possibly have been armed". trust me i am a firm believer in defending ones self and their family. but when you "gut" someone without there being an actual justification then you go to prison. and what ever happened to just giving the crazy a beating if he comes at you unarmed? and i am a cop and have seen what the homeless and vagrants are capable of, but it doesn't change the law. in the begining i asked the question just playing devil's advocate. i really don't care how you handle it, and i am glad that everything worked out for you. but people need to think just because they start off a victim doesn't mean they won't become a defendant. and a man charging you, no matter what your paranoid mind thinks he MIGHT have in his pocket, does not justify in you using lethal force. now there could be some other factors that you didn't mention that would make you think that he was armed, and that you can try to convince a jury to believe he was armed.

[ElectricHellfire]

Your first mistake was shopping at Ross. The last time I was in wading through the unorganized explosion of clothing in there I took a shirt off the rack (can't believe there was actually one on a rack) that smelled of so badly of body odor and sweat I wanted to wretch. I left and have never and will never go in there again.

Lesson = Stay away from Ross.

Glad you nor any in your party were not harmed. Just for the record, I carry in and on the way to and from "gun free" zones just for this very reason. I don't ever want to bring a knife to a gun fight. Criminals get respect those zones. I'd rather be alive and litigated than dead and not.

[Socrates]

quinn2187 deserves a response.
Kuhio: First: Is Sin City Las Vegas or Honolulu?
Either way, quinn2187 should be up on Vegas law, or Honolulu law before giving you advice on your state.

That said, Las Vegas didn't cut O.J. much slack. Seems that when you use a weapon in Vegas, they have enhancement statutes that SERIOUSLY tack on time to the crime. Lesson is, do not use a firearm, can't say for certain on other types of weapons, in Nevada. They have this odd concept that if you use a firearm in a crime, you get hit with the book. Criminals, actually being prosecuted for using firearms in crimes, and not citizens? What a unique concept.

That said, I posted the Arizona case for a reason, the same as quinn2187 posted. In court, chances are real good that you are going to have to have some sort of evidence, usually the other guy has to hit, strike, or attack first, prior to using weapons that have the potential for lethal force. I seriously advocate pepper spray, pepper gel, stun gun, ANYTHING that is less likely to cause death, and, to avoid at all costs.

You are first at the mercy of the police, who, in their view, after the fact about 100% of the time, are going to have to decide how to write their report. Yours is of course going to get favorable results. It's neat, clean, and requires little paper work, since no body, no blood, etc.
It's ideal for a cop to come out, write or not write a report, since there was really no incident beyond verbal.
Their opinion might have radically changed if you had to use your knife, and, if you had, your best response would be,
"No comment. I would like an attorney."
Be ready when you use a weapon other then your hands to be cuffed, taken to jail, and charged. Part of the fact finding process.

Then, the booking DA, sitting in our comfortable office, will review the report. Now, if the police had done their jobs prior, we'd have a 30 page rap sheet on the victim, might take that into account, and, depending on how well the police do their job, we might have enough evidence to make a charging decision. If not, we'd send out the D.A.'s investigating officers to interview witnesses, and, try and accumulate enough evidence to make a charging decision.

If it's a grand jury state, all of this is going in front of a bunch of folks, sitting WAY removed from your situation, and, they will make a decision. Just think Bernard Geotz, and the New York Vigilante case.

Now, if you are in Honolulu, chances are you are related to the police, and, all you have to do is tell your uncle on the force, and, the guy will be beaten to a pulp, never do it again, and, their will be no paper work, and you'll never have to file charges, etc...
Sometimes I really miss Hawaii...