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Old November 22, 2007, 12:54 PM   #1
lastchancebaby
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Hello, Happy Thanksgiving, Federal Ammo in AR15?

Hi, I must be a real gun nut; I would rather sit with family and read this forum then watch games!! This is my true hobby passion. I have read many members of this site discussing Federal cases unfavorably-especially with AR 15s. Also, Lee's new book warns against Federal primers. There seems to be some issue her. However, does this issue include their factory loads? Would you still use Federal ammo in an AR 15? Their varmint 55g varmenters and 69 Sierra's both are in my ammo box?
Thank you and happy holidays!!
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Old November 22, 2007, 03:37 PM   #2
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The only posts concerning the use of Federal brass in ARs I have ever seen that possibly had any basis in fact were ones complaining about loose primer pockets. Some of these were undoubtedly about brass people picked up at the range. Some may have just assumed that the primer pocket needed to be reamed. I don't use Federal brass as a rule, as it used to be available only by buying their ammo and reloading it, or from persons selling "once fired brass" whose antecedents were at best questionable.

Some time ago, friend who was being forcibly retired from shooting and reloading due to a poor choice of female companionship, gave me a half a tone of his old brass. In it were lots of Federal cases in various calibers, mostly .30-06 and .223 rem. I loaded a few dozen plinkers with that brass and had no trouble.

I use Federal standard and match primers in all my loads. Several shooters I meet regularly at matches and exchange info with here locally use Federal primers. Richard Lee has said that his only concern was safety when warning against the use of Federal primers in his equipment. Federal's continued use of the old style safety packaging of the thier primers make them harder to load in the Lee primer handlers and I suspect this has more to do with his concerns than any propensity to detonate on the part of the Federal primers. Lee's pictures of blown up trays notwithstanding, ALL makers of primers sold in the USA conform to SAMMI guidelines, and if you actually read them, you'll know that under certain circumstances, ANY brand of primer can unexpectedly detonate. You also might decide not to use certain kinds of primer loading equipment, and make an effort to control static electricity in your loading room.

As for use in ARs or other military style semi-auto rifles, if you ensure that your primers are seated .003" below the brass of the casehead, you should never have any "slam fire" problems caused by primers od any type or brand.
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Old November 22, 2007, 04:24 PM   #3
mc223
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Attached is a comparison photo of Fed brass. I have been using Fed 205 and 205M primers for years with my Dillon RL-550 for an AR. Never had any problems or slamfires. Only hassle is the packaging of the Fed primers.
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File Type: jpg FedAE_Brass 1.jpg (14.3 KB, 36 views)
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Old November 22, 2007, 04:37 PM   #4
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Federal .223 brass has the thinnest web of any brass. This leads to early primer pocket loosening, even with normal pressure loads. I've seen pics of sectioned fed .223 brass, it's noticeably thinner at the web area.

It's fine for factory fodder, but as for brass for reloading, I'd leave it lay rather than bothering to pick it up. You may load it once THEN leave it on the ground.
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Old November 22, 2007, 11:38 PM   #5
lastchancebaby
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Thanks alot

Hello,
This forum provides great information; moreover, a new reloader can assess the issues clearly. Also, forums like this protect gun rights in a very direct manner. For instance, we can communicate almost instantly on issues.
thanks
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Old November 23, 2007, 05:02 AM   #6
Tim R
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I will not use Federal Brass in 223 for any thing important again! My main competive rifle is a AR15 as I shoot NRA High Power. I got a new upper for Perry this year and ordered up some once fired GI brass from one of the mail order companies. The place I normally get once fired brass was out. I was expecting Lake City and got Federal. I had read bad things about Federal 223 brass but thought I needed to try it my self. Long story short, I lost primers at Perry. My loads are not hot and I have gotten 10 reloads out of Lake City before retiring. I had NEVER lost a primer before. I was very upset when I was shooting standing slow fire and the rifle would not fire the next round because I had no trigger. The rifle had to be opened up and the primer picked out of the trigger group. I am so glad I only got a 1,000 pieces of this brass.

As for primers I use Remington 7 1/2 BR's. These primers work well for use in the AR. CCI BR's will work in a pinch. I have used Federal match primers and had to work the firing pin over and then replaced as I pierced 3 or 4 primers during a match with a AR. One the other hand I use Large rifle Federal match primers in my 308 M-1 without problem. (firing pin was sprung by builder for those who care) As for using Federal primers in the Lee handheld primer, I got 2 of them. 1 for small primers the other for large primers which also gives me a spare in case one breaks. We all know there is little to do when changing from small to large primers on these things. In any case I've used Federal primers in both but like stated already, mostly Large Federal match primers as I did shoot the 308 for several years and still do when I feel the need. I have encountered zero problems.

Federal Gold match ammo no matter if it's 223, or 308 etc is the standard of all the match ammo. You just can't reload the 223 brass and not come up with some problem. 308 seems OK.
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Old November 27, 2007, 09:42 PM   #7
lastchancebaby
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Great info,

What component combination would you suggest for stockpile "end of the world" ammo for AR 223 1:9. Maybe SS109? Speer 62g FMJBT?? Powder: Varget?
thanks
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Old November 27, 2007, 09:53 PM   #8
mc223
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26g Varget, 60g V-max, Rem 7½, in Win brass. Individuals do not need to worry about the Hague or other BS treaties if the bad guys come knockin at the door on my soil.
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Old November 28, 2007, 12:03 PM   #9
lastchancebaby
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thanks mc223

I have read that the VMAx has limited penetration issues, is this incorrect?
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Old November 28, 2007, 03:56 PM   #10
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Hornady says V-Max bullets are designed for varminting and target shooting. Varmint bullets are designed to expand violently and break apart to reduce or avoid ricochets. This is particularly important in areas where you are shooting over flat ground or hard ground, but is a safety concern wherever you may be shooting. If you shoot FMJ or heavy game bullets at varmints, you will hear the ricochets going off towards who knows where. If you shoot a large animal with V-Max bullets, you will likely just wound it.

Match your bullet to its intended use. If you want a sturdier bullet for whatever reason, look in the bullet manufacturers' product information and see what their recommendations are for bullet use.
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Old November 28, 2007, 05:52 PM   #11
lastchancebaby
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That makes sense: however,

When you research reloading you seem to get a very broad range of information. For instance, many people advise against reloading bullets without a cannuler (for AR15s). However, I talked to a very helpful bulletsmith at Sieera (Dave) and he said the cannular thing was a red herring. Neck tension is adequate and a cannular damages bullet. However, bullet selection seems tricky; yet, crucial to cartridge performance.
thanks again
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