45 acp small or large pistol primers ?

Metal god · February 4, 2014, 11:23 AM

Hello , I just bought a 45 ( SR45 ) and will reload for it . I came across what I find to be interesting . The 45 acp brass comes in small or large pistol primers . Why is this and is there a big difference in the quality of the round when you use either or .

Although I have not started reloading 9mm . I do have everything I need except powder . I'd rather not need a whole other component like large primers if the same small primers I use for my 9mm will work just fine in the 45 acp . These reloads will be for plinking and range fun . HD/SD ammo will be factory bought .

At a glance it appears there are many powders that can be used for both . Any recommendations on powders that work well for both 9mm and 45acp

steveno · February 4, 2014, 12:15 PM

the small primers originally got their start in 45 acp in non-toxic factory loadings. I doubt you would ever be able to tell the difference in reloads using small or large primers. the only way to tell would be to chronograph the same load using the different primers and see what happens. I think they would be a real pain to keep separate

serf 'rett · February 4, 2014, 12:17 PM

Powder - W231, Unique, Power Pistol or what you can find nowadays.

45 Auto historically uses large pistol primers; however, the small primer cases are now becoming more common.

mikld · February 4, 2014, 12:49 PM

No difference, just size of primer. Google "small vs. large primers in the 45 ACP" and you'll get a few hundred hits on this discussion...

Gadawg88 · February 4, 2014, 02:19 PM

I am currently using vv-N320 in both 45acp and 9mm and I like it very well. However, when it runs out I plan on switching to HP-38 (same as Win 231). Reason is because I have a lot of it, it's cheaper and I also use it for 38sp. No problems i know of using the small primers in 45 acp assuming you can buy/collect enough brass to go that route. One thing to consider is most of the once fired brass you see for sell is LPP, but occasionally you will see some spp for sale. You can get new 45acp brass in spp if the cost is not a problem. If you shoot at a range where you can occasionally pick up others brass, with their permission, keep in mind it is most likely going to be LPP.

Misssissippi Dave · February 4, 2014, 07:26 PM

Federal Champion brass has the small pistol primers. Depending on when it was made Blazer brass also has small primers. There are others as well. Load them the same as you would for large primers and you probably will never notice any difference. AA2, AA5, WST and WSF are some of the other powders you could use easy enough. It depends to me which bullet is being used and what speed you want to get.

mnoirot64 · February 4, 2014, 08:49 PM

Federal seems to be hit and miss. The majority I am running across are still large primers. With a few exceptions, all of the recent CCI Blazer brass I have come across has been small primer. I am not opposed to using the small primer brass, but it is a real pain in the a** to sort it out.

I have been running across IMR 800-X and Hodgdon Longshot powders recently. Both work well for me in my 45 hand loads.

Smokey Joe · February 4, 2014, 09:32 PM

Agree that the small-primered cases in .45acp are a real pain in the patoot to separate. I can't imagine what the folks at SAMMI were thinking when they OK'd that--obviously NOT thinking about reloading!

I just separate out the small-primered ones, and so far have simply scrapped them; I have enough .45acp brass with large primer pockets. If the small-pocket variety becomes more common I guess I'll save those up separately, and reload a run of .45 with the small primers.

When the small primered .45's first came out there was a lot of talk about "would it change the POI of a given load," and such. Same question was raised for the NT (non-toxic) .45 brass, which has larger flash holes than standard. Apparently the answer is "no" in both instances--just load 'em up and shoot 'em.

In shooting pistol, especially .45 acp, there is so much variability in POI brought in by other factors (mostly classifiable as "operator error") that the changes in primers just doesn't seem to make an observable difference.

IMHO, if I were competing at a state-level competition with my .45, I would make sure that all my ammo was all primed the same. But that would mostly be for boosting my own confidence. (I know one legitimate state-level competitor who does exactly that, and for exactly that reason!)

Bottom line: Load 'em up and shoot 'em!!

rodfac · February 4, 2014, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Hello , I just bought a 45 ( SR45 ) and will reload for it . I came across what I find to be interesting . The 45 acp brass comes in small or large rifle primers .

Just a point of clarification....45 ACP's, all of them, use PISTOL primers. Rifle primers are taller and will not seat all the way into the primer pocket. You cannot use rifle primers in .45's or any other handgun round, safely.

For the most part, .45 ACP's use large pistol primers, but recently some makers have been making some varieties with small pistol primers. Federal and Winchester come to mind and there may be others.

HTH's Rod

Smokey Joe · February 4, 2014, 09:43 PM

Rodfac--Good Catch on the use of PISTOL not rifle primers! You understand the difference, Metal God??

The rest of us were so eager to join in the discussion, me included, that we missed that little--But important--point!

Metal god · February 4, 2014, 09:52 PM

Yep I do ,that was a type-O and it has been corrected

I've been loading and posting questions about my 308 loads that it just naturally gets typed in . My bad

It sounds like there is a lot more large rif--PISTOL primed cases then small . I think I'll just go with the large primer brass and keep the small brass for SHTF type of stuff .

willr · February 5, 2014, 02:15 PM

Just for clarification, some 327 Fed Mag loads do call for rifle primers. I am beginning to prefer small primers for 45 acp, mainly because I don't have to search for large ones when the only one I load for which uses large primers is the 45.

willr

jrobin3360 · February 12, 2014, 10:46 PM

Loaded & shot both & I couldn't tell any difference.
Sorting is the worst part but I'm not trashing any serviceable cases so I work thru the pain of sorting.

Metal god · February 13, 2014, 12:07 AM

Well its getting closer to my pick-up date ( Friday I get my new SR45 )

I have another question about brass . In doing so research and window shopping for brass . I have found that they make what I assume is regular brass and +P brass . What's the difference and should I just buy +P brass or does it really matter ?

mnoirot64 · February 13, 2014, 10:11 AM

I have been discarding the small primer pocket 45 ACP brass. Since it appears the factory ammo is going to continue coming with the small primers, I guess it is time to segregate it and start building up a supply. What a pain in the bum.

Gadawg88 · February 13, 2014, 02:09 PM

Here is how Starline describes their +P 45acp brass.
"The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto."

Unless you plan on loading +p, I would just get the regular type.

WESHOOT2 · February 13, 2014, 02:25 PM

Buy non +P.

Powders that can work well in both the 9x19 and 45 ACP include (but not limited to):
W231
AA5
Universal
Unique
Power Pistol
Bullseye
others.....

I mostly use W231 in 45 ACP; I use WAP (modern equivalent = Ramshot Silhouette) in the 9x19.
I have at least twenty handgun powders on hand, because in MY ammo one powder does suit all needs.

Jeff2131 · February 13, 2014, 05:17 PM

My vote is for unique!

mnoirot64 · February 13, 2014, 06:02 PM

Unique and Power Pistol for me. They are both hard to find right now.

Freakingstang · February 16, 2014, 07:52 PM

Win 231, bullseye and power pistol. Blue dot, unique, and Wst will work in a pinch too

mmb713 · February 16, 2014, 10:05 PM

There are a lot of powders that will work in both 9mm and 45 Auto but there is no single powder that is ideal for both. One is a small and fast high pressure cartridge and the other is a big and slow low pressure cartridge. 9mm thrives on the slower pistol powders and 45 Auto is best served with the faster ones. I prefer to use different powders best suited to each cartridge. However, in today's market I'll take anything I can get.

February 4, 2014, 11:23 AM	#1
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	45 acp small or large pistol primers ? Hello , I just bought a 45 ( SR45 ) and will reload for it . I came across what I find to be interesting . The 45 acp brass comes in small or large pistol primers . Why is this and is there a big difference in the quality of the round when you use either or . Although I have not started reloading 9mm . I do have everything I need except powder . I'd rather not need a whole other component like large primers if the same small primers I use for my 9mm will work just fine in the 45 acp . These reloads will be for plinking and range fun . HD/SD ammo will be factory bought . At a glance it appears there are many powders that can be used for both . Any recommendations on powders that work well for both 9mm and 45acp __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again . Last edited by Metal god; February 4, 2014 at 09:44 PM.

February 4, 2014, 12:17 PM	#3
serf 'rett Senior Member Join Date: June 25, 2009 Location: Stuttgart, AR Posts: 1,569	Powder - W231, Unique, Power Pistol or what you can find nowadays. 45 Auto historically uses large pistol primers; however, the small primer cases are now becoming more common. __________________ A lack of planning on your part does not necessarily constitute an emergency on my part.

February 4, 2014, 12:49 PM	#4
mikld Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2009 Location: Southern Oregon! Posts: 2,891	No difference, just size of primer. Google "small vs. large primers in the 45 ACP" and you'll get a few hundred hits on this discussion... __________________ My Anchor is holding fast! I've learned how to stand on my own two knees...

February 4, 2014, 08:49 PM	#7
mnoirot64 Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2013 Location: Clarksville, Tennessee Posts: 365	Federal seems to be hit and miss. The majority I am running across are still large primers. With a few exceptions, all of the recent CCI Blazer brass I have come across has been small primer. I am not opposed to using the small primer brass, but it is a real pain in the a** to sort it out. I have been running across IMR 800-X and Hodgdon Longshot powders recently. Both work well for me in my 45 hand loads. __________________ Michael Noirot Life Member - NRA Clarksville, Tennessee

February 4, 2014, 09:32 PM	#8
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Small primers in .45 acp (grrr!) Agree that the small-primered cases in .45acp are a real pain in the patoot to separate. I can't imagine what the folks at SAMMI were thinking when they OK'd that--obviously NOT thinking about reloading! I just separate out the small-primered ones, and so far have simply scrapped them; I have enough .45acp brass with large primer pockets. If the small-pocket variety becomes more common I guess I'll save those up separately, and reload a run of .45 with the small primers. When the small primered .45's first came out there was a lot of talk about "would it change the POI of a given load," and such. Same question was raised for the NT (non-toxic) .45 brass, which has larger flash holes than standard. Apparently the answer is "no" in both instances--just load 'em up and shoot 'em. In shooting pistol, especially .45 acp, there is so much variability in POI brought in by other factors (mostly classifiable as "operator error") that the changes in primers just doesn't seem to make an observable difference. IMHO, if I were competing at a state-level competition with my .45, I would make sure that all my ammo was all primed the same. But that would mostly be for boosting my own confidence. (I know one legitimate state-level competitor who does exactly that, and for exactly that reason!) Bottom line: Load 'em up and shoot 'em!! __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe Last edited by Smokey Joe; February 4, 2014 at 09:39 PM. Reason: The usual--Had another thought.

February 4, 2014, 12:15 PM	#2
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	the small primers originally got their start in 45 acp in non-toxic factory loadings. I doubt you would ever be able to tell the difference in reloads using small or large primers. the only way to tell would be to chronograph the same load using the different primers and see what happens. I think they would be a real pain to keep separate

February 4, 2014, 02:19 PM	#5
Gadawg88 Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Georgia Posts: 241	I am currently using vv-N320 in both 45acp and 9mm and I like it very well. However, when it runs out I plan on switching to HP-38 (same as Win 231). Reason is because I have a lot of it, it's cheaper and I also use it for 38sp. No problems i know of using the small primers in 45 acp assuming you can buy/collect enough brass to go that route. One thing to consider is most of the once fired brass you see for sell is LPP, but occasionally you will see some spp for sale. You can get new 45acp brass in spp if the cost is not a problem. If you shoot at a range where you can occasionally pick up others brass, with their permission, keep in mind it is most likely going to be LPP.

February 4, 2014, 07:26 PM	#6
Misssissippi Dave Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Posts: 1,411	Federal Champion brass has the small pistol primers. Depending on when it was made Blazer brass also has small primers. There are others as well. Load them the same as you would for large primers and you probably will never notice any difference. AA2, AA5, WST and WSF are some of the other powders you could use easy enough. It depends to me which bullet is being used and what speed you want to get.

February 4, 2014, 09:43 PM	#10
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	GOOD CATCH!!! Rodfac--Good Catch on the use of PISTOL not rifle primers! You understand the difference, Metal God?? The rest of us were so eager to join in the discussion, me included, that we missed that little--But important--point! __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe Last edited by Smokey Joe; February 4, 2014 at 09:44 PM. Reason: The usual--Had another thought.

February 4, 2014, 09:52 PM	#11
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Yep I do ,that was a type-O and it has been corrected I've been loading and posting questions about my 308 loads that it just naturally gets typed in . My bad It sounds like there is a lot more large rif--PISTOL primed cases then small . I think I'll just go with the large primer brass and keep the small brass for SHTF type of stuff . __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 5, 2014, 02:15 PM	#12
willr Senior Member Join Date: July 23, 2006 Posts: 356	Just for clarification, some 327 Fed Mag loads do call for rifle primers. I am beginning to prefer small primers for 45 acp, mainly because I don't have to search for large ones when the only one I load for which uses large primers is the 45. willr

February 12, 2014, 10:46 PM	#13
jrobin3360 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2013 Location: Kentucky, near Ft Knox Posts: 153	Loaded & shot both & I couldn't tell any difference. Sorting is the worst part but I'm not trashing any serviceable cases so I work thru the pain of sorting.

February 13, 2014, 12:07 AM	#14
Metal god Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2012 Location: San Diego CA Posts: 6,876	Well its getting closer to my pick-up date ( Friday I get my new SR45 ) I have another question about brass . In doing so research and window shopping for brass . I have found that they make what I assume is regular brass and +P brass . What's the difference and should I just buy +P brass or does it really matter ? __________________ If Jesus had a gun , he'd probably still be alive ! I almost always write my posts regardless of content in a jovial manor and intent . If that's not how you took it , please try again .

February 13, 2014, 10:11 AM	#15
mnoirot64 Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2013 Location: Clarksville, Tennessee Posts: 365	I have been discarding the small primer pocket 45 ACP brass. Since it appears the factory ammo is going to continue coming with the small primers, I guess it is time to segregate it and start building up a supply. What a pain in the bum. __________________ Michael Noirot Life Member - NRA Clarksville, Tennessee

February 13, 2014, 02:09 PM	#16
Gadawg88 Senior Member Join Date: March 2, 2013 Location: Georgia Posts: 241	Here is how Starline describes their +P 45acp brass. "The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto." Unless you plan on loading +p, I would just get the regular type.

February 13, 2014, 02:25 PM	#17
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	I have more than one hammer Buy non +P. Powders that can work well in both the 9x19 and 45 ACP include (but not limited to): W231 AA5 Universal Unique Power Pistol Bullseye others..... I mostly use W231 in 45 ACP; I use WAP (modern equivalent = Ramshot Silhouette) in the 9x19. I have at least twenty handgun powders on hand, because in MY ammo one powder does suit all needs. __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

February 13, 2014, 05:17 PM	#18
Jeff2131 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Spring City, PA Posts: 497	My vote is for unique! __________________ ---I DON'T DIAL 911---

February 13, 2014, 06:02 PM	#19
mnoirot64 Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2013 Location: Clarksville, Tennessee Posts: 365	Unique and Power Pistol for me. They are both hard to find right now.

February 16, 2014, 07:52 PM	#20
Freakingstang Member Join Date: January 12, 2014 Location: Canfield Ohio Posts: 44	Win 231, bullseye and power pistol. Blue dot, unique, and Wst will work in a pinch too

February 16, 2014, 10:05 PM	#21
mmb713 Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2011 Location: Salt Lake City, UT Posts: 421	There are a lot of powders that will work in both 9mm and 45 Auto but there is no single powder that is ideal for both. One is a small and fast high pressure cartridge and the other is a big and slow low pressure cartridge. 9mm thrives on the slower pistol powders and 45 Auto is best served with the faster ones. I prefer to use different powders best suited to each cartridge. However, in today's market I'll take anything I can get.