Another .38spcl/.357 question

Fullthrottle · December 26, 2009, 11:47 PM

I bought some Sierra 38cal (.357dia) bullets in 140gr from my local shop. I currently load only 38spcl/.357magnum. Now, all the bullets I have purchased online have stated 38spcl/357magnum and in 158gr. I bought these because they were in 140gr. just to try them out. looked in my reloading manual and found far fewer powders and load data available for that grain bullet.
My question is,"what is the differance between 38cal and 38spcl" or is there any? I compared them to other 38spcl bullets and other then the grains I found no noticable change.

Did I screw up or am I being overly concerned?

zxcvbob · December 27, 2009, 12:14 AM

Everything made sense until the "my question is" part.

What gunpowders do you have already? Are you looking for .38 Special data, or .357 Magnum?

Fullthrottle · December 27, 2009, 12:35 AM

Sorry if that was unclear. The question is ,"what is the differance between 38cal and 38spcl" or is there any? OR is that just a term differance?

Not looking for load data!

80viking · December 27, 2009, 01:39 AM

38cal specifies caliber or bore diameter and 38spl designates or names a specific cartridge, 38S&W, 38spl, .357magnum, and .357maximun are all 38cal

spacecoast · December 27, 2009, 07:06 AM

They all refer to a bullet which is .357 or .358 inches in diameter, depending on if it's jacketed, plated or cast. The case diameter is .38 inches or thereabouts.

MissouriBullet · December 27, 2009, 07:51 AM

At least, in the sense that .38 Special and .357 Magnum's are .38's, with their .357 groove diameter. The .38 S&W's is .361 and not interchangeable with the others.

Lost Sheep · December 27, 2009, 08:40 AM

Well, the 38-40 Winchester (a black powder cartridge for which both rifles and handguns were chambered) drove a bullet .400" in diameter. It might be labelled a 38. But 150 to 200 grain weights are typical, so I doubt these are the ones you are looking at.

38 Smith & Wesson (Not the 38 Smith & Wesson Special also known as 38 Special) is a lower powered cartridge which was called, variously .38 Colt New Police, 38 S&W Super Police, or the the British .38/200 Mk I. These fired 200 grain lead alloy bullet with a muzzle velocity of 630 ft/s. The .38 S&W is also called the .380 Rim. Diameter was .361"

A lead bullet of .361" might swage down OK to .357" without overpressurizing the cartridge, but it's best you get hold of a caliper (take a couple of bullets into a gun shop and ask them to measure the slugs). A .400" slug might be too large for safety. Probably too large to even chamber, once stuffed in a cartridge case.

Having said all that, considering the weights and you are almost certainly dealing with .357" diameter slugs and should have no concern. There are 140 grain slugs in .357" diameter, and 148 grain, 125 grain and even 115 and as low as 90 grain jacketed listed in one of my loading manuals for the 38/357 bore size.

But the general question about "38 Cal" is more complex because of the many times that name has been applied to different cartridges. So, anyone reading and applying generalizations about "38" across the board to all slugs bearing that name should be careful.

Lost Sheep

Sport45 · December 27, 2009, 08:29 PM

If the question is about lack of load data for 140gr bullets in 38 caliber it is a generally accepted practice to use data for the next higher weight projectile of the same type. In other words if you have 140gr FMJ bullets you can use load data for 158gr jacketed bullets. Always start with the "start" loads and work your way up from there. This should work with most powders used in .38spcl but don't vary from load manual recipes when using slow magnum powders like H110 in .357mag.

Fullthrottle · December 29, 2009, 12:09 AM

"38cal specifies caliber or bore diameter and 38spl designates or names a specific cartridge, 38S&W, 38spl, .357magnum, and .357maximun are all 38cal"

Thank you 80viking, that is what I thought, I was just looking for a little conformation on my limited research!

Old Grump · December 29, 2009, 12:48 AM

Try here for a starting point, they have loads from 110 gr on up so its not really a problem.

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...Powder&Source=

WatongaJim · December 29, 2009, 01:17 AM

Good website. I've bookmarked it for future use.

I use Lee's 2nd Edition as my primary book for load data and it has a lot of loading data for using 140 grain bullets in both 38 & 357, although not as many as 158 grain bullets.

December 26, 2009, 11:47 PM	#1
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	Another .38spcl/.357 question I bought some Sierra 38cal (.357dia) bullets in 140gr from my local shop. I currently load only 38spcl/.357magnum. Now, all the bullets I have purchased online have stated 38spcl/357magnum and in 158gr. I bought these because they were in 140gr. just to try them out. looked in my reloading manual and found far fewer powders and load data available for that grain bullet. My question is,"what is the differance between 38cal and 38spcl" or is there any? I compared them to other 38spcl bullets and other then the grains I found no noticable change. Did I screw up or am I being overly concerned? __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

December 27, 2009, 12:14 AM	#2
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Everything made sense until the "my question is" part. What gunpowders do you have already? Are you looking for .38 Special data, or .357 Magnum? __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

December 27, 2009, 12:35 AM	#3
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	Sorry if that was unclear. The question is ,"what is the differance between 38cal and 38spcl" or is there any? OR is that just a term differance? Not looking for load data! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

December 27, 2009, 07:51 AM	#6
MissouriBullet Member Join Date: August 4, 2007 Posts: 29	The .38 S&W is not really a .38 At least, in the sense that .38 Special and .357 Magnum's are .38's, with their .357 groove diameter. The .38 S&W's is .361 and not interchangeable with the others.

December 27, 2009, 08:29 PM	#8
Sport45 Senior Member Join Date: May 25, 1999 Location: Too close to Houston Posts: 4,196	If the question is about lack of load data for 140gr bullets in 38 caliber it is a generally accepted practice to use data for the next higher weight projectile of the same type. In other words if you have 140gr FMJ bullets you can use load data for 158gr jacketed bullets. Always start with the "start" loads and work your way up from there. This should work with most powders used in .38spcl but don't vary from load manual recipes when using slow magnum powders like H110 in .357mag. __________________ Proud member of the NRA and Texas State Rifle Association. Registered and active voter.

December 27, 2009, 01:39 AM	#4
80viking Senior Member Join Date: December 8, 2009 Location: The Peoples Republic of Massac Posts: 333	38cal specifies caliber or bore diameter and 38spl designates or names a specific cartridge, 38S&W, 38spl, .357magnum, and .357maximun are all 38cal

December 27, 2009, 07:06 AM	#5
spacecoast Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2009 Location: Sunshine and Keystone States Posts: 4,461	They all refer to a bullet which is .357 or .358 inches in diameter, depending on if it's jacketed, plated or cast. The case diameter is .38 inches or thereabouts.

December 27, 2009, 08:40 AM	#7
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 3,341	Well, the 38-40 Winchester (a black powder cartridge for which both rifles and handguns were chambered) drove a bullet .400" in diameter. It might be labelled a 38. But 150 to 200 grain weights are typical, so I doubt these are the ones you are looking at. 38 Smith & Wesson (Not the 38 Smith & Wesson Special also known as 38 Special) is a lower powered cartridge which was called, variously .38 Colt New Police, 38 S&W Super Police, or the the British .38/200 Mk I. These fired 200 grain lead alloy bullet with a muzzle velocity of 630 ft/s. The .38 S&W is also called the .380 Rim. Diameter was .361" A lead bullet of .361" might swage down OK to .357" without overpressurizing the cartridge, but it's best you get hold of a caliper (take a couple of bullets into a gun shop and ask them to measure the slugs). A .400" slug might be too large for safety. Probably too large to even chamber, once stuffed in a cartridge case. Having said all that, considering the weights and you are almost certainly dealing with .357" diameter slugs and should have no concern. There are 140 grain slugs in .357" diameter, and 148 grain, 125 grain and even 115 and as low as 90 grain jacketed listed in one of my loading manuals for the 38/357 bore size. But the general question about "38 Cal" is more complex because of the many times that name has been applied to different cartridges. So, anyone reading and applying generalizations about "38" across the board to all slugs bearing that name should be careful. Lost Sheep

December 29, 2009, 12:09 AM	#9
Fullthrottle Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2009 Posts: 280	"38cal specifies caliber or bore diameter and 38spl designates or names a specific cartridge, 38S&W, 38spl, .357magnum, and .357maximun are all 38cal" Thank you 80viking, that is what I thought, I was just looking for a little conformation on my limited research! __________________ When seconds count, why is help minutes away?

December 29, 2009, 12:48 AM	#10
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	Try here for a starting point, they have loads from 110 gr on up so its not really a problem. http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/de...Powder&Source= __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

December 29, 2009, 01:17 AM	#11
WatongaJim Member Join Date: December 20, 2009 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 21	Good website. I've bookmarked it for future use. I use Lee's 2nd Edition as my primary book for load data and it has a lot of loading data for using 140 grain bullets in both 38 & 357, although not as many as 158 grain bullets.