Another 1911 Thread

[pilpens]

Basically, Yes. A 1911 is a 1911 ... but not all 1911s are created equal. Some have better fit, finish, QC, warranties and changes that to some are insignificant but to others make a world of difference.
Do the differences warrant a %200 increase in price compared to the least expensive 1911 style pistol. Maybe. What is the starting point?
Also, keep the Law of Diminishing Returns in mind.
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I liked the "wine is wine and beer is beer" post.

My wife says that $4 dollar wine taste like $4 wine -- she likes the on sale wines for $10 a lot better.

[WC145]

Most parts drop right in, regardless of the manufacture of the gun. The grip angle is the same on all 1911 so they would "point" the same. Same for fit in holster. Unless you can give some actual different measurements taken from the different 1911's, the huge "difference" seems to be cosmetic...which is easy enough to change. I am still not convinced. As for "feel", that is too nebulous to even consider...change the grips-change the "feel". Seems like smoke and mirrors to me. What feels good to me is that lump of cash (about $1000) in my wallet between a Ruger and a $1500 gun.

That may be absolutely true. However, it has no bearing on my contention that all 1911's are pretty much the same in that a slightly different radius in the frame's grip-safety area would not likely cause a difference in the feel, use, reliability, accuracy, etc., that would warrant the 200% or more difference in price. I suspect that the better "feel", "better fit", and "better parts" are more likely a cosmetic effect coupled with the oft-mistaken perception that, "...you get what you pay for.", after paying three times what it is worth.

So, you reject what you're being told because it isn't what you want to hear?

1911s are notorious for needing parts, even 'drop-in' parts, hand fitted to a particular gun. Why is that? Because of the variations in sizes, shapes, tolerances, etc from one manufacturer to another.

And, if you believe there is no difference between a $500 1911 from whichever manufacturer and a $1500 1911 from Colt, Springfield, Dan Wesson, or one of the other manufacturers selling guns at that price point you either need to educate yourself about the genre or stop deluding yourself. Just because two guns are similar in appearance it doesn't mean that they are the same.

[mellow_c]

Now I'm thinking to myself... Gee, I could have bought a Dan Wesson Heritage for just a bit more than I just spent on my two Remington R1's, and I would have had an amazing 1911 and still gotten my fix of stainless steel.

Oh well. By no means do I regret getting the R1's, but now I sure wish I had a Heritage. I just told some friends and family that I've got all my basses covered regarding 1911's and now I don't nee to buy anymore... but maybe I could make room for another. lol. Nah, that's just crazy talk.

ycastane, I hope you get yourself the Dan Wesson Heritage to take the pressure off me, if not for the fact that it could very well be the best gun for your money!

[redrick]

I agree with most here get a Colt . They might not be here much longer .

In the mid 80's one of my friends & I bought .357's at the same time . Both were priced about the same , around $325 dollars . I bought a S&W 686 , resale on it is about $650 , his Colt King Cobra is about $1200 dollars .

I have a new Colt on the way now .

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by BarryLee

Now, forgive me if this is too off topic, but isn’t the radius of the grip area different on the Springfield Armory guns compared to other 1911 frames. I seem to remember a friend having difficulty fitting a standard beaver tail to his SA frame and ordering another part with a different radius or something from Brownells.

Close. It's not the grip area that's different, it's the radius at the aft end of the frame tangs below the hammer.

[RTBA]

I'm new to this site so hello. Let me jump right in and say I have owned many 1911s over the years and currently have 8 with one on order. I don't just look at them, but shoot them all. I can take them apart and work the triggers and set them up and configure them the way I like them.
That being said, I have had some that after putting hammers and sear and and other parts on I have just gotten rid of them. Too much good money after bad. I have Colts, kimbers, a nice custom Wilson and even a Rock Island. I just bought a Colt Custom Combat last week for $2,100. and sold it the next day. Just wasn't enough bang for the buck. So I took a close look at a Dan Wesson Valor. What a gun! Fit and finish is on par with a Wilson! I have had it for a week and have been all through it and I am impressed, and I'm not easily impressed. So impressed I have another one on order, a Guardian. It's their light weight commander with a bobtail.
So I would defiantly take a look at the CZ-USA's line of Dan Wesson 1911 pistols. They have an entry level model called the Heritage that fits your price point. I know this isn't one of the more familiar names like Colt, Kimber or Springfield Armory, but I don't think you can get a better 1911 for the money.
Just my 2 cents. Good luck.

[subhuman]

I'm not normal but this is how I would do it,
Sig Nightmare Carry

Sig Fastback Carry

[Consort]

You should be able to get a Dan Wsseon Heritage model for under $ 1200. As close to a custom 1911 as you can get.

[WC145]

You should be able to get a Dan Wesson Heritage model for under $ 1200. As close to a custom 1911 as you can get.

A DW Heritage is a nice gun, well put together, no MIM parts. But it's the bottom rung of the DW ladder and while it would make an excellent foundation for a custom 1911 build, it isn't anywhere near being a custom built 1911.

[Consort]

Let me clarify ... IMO as close to a custom pistol in terms of fit & finish that i have EVER found in a productin gun.

[fire4606]

Like RTBA I'd throw in another vote for a Dan Wesson, I have a Guardian and am currently shopping for a Valor.

I've owned and shoot Sig, Kimber, and S&W PC 1911s and the DW is by far my favorite so far

[ycastane]

I'll look into DW, just need a place where is well under $1200 cause I have not found it lol. I appreciate everyone's input and advice!!!

[RickB]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryLee
Now, forgive me if this is too off topic, but isn’t the radius of the grip area different on the Springfield Armory guns compared to other 1911 frames. I seem to remember a friend having difficulty fitting a standard beaver tail to his SA frame and ordering another part with a different radius or something from Brownells.

Close. It's not the grip area that's different, it's the radius at the aft end of the frame tangs below the hammer.

In the '90s, Springfields were different. The dust cover and frame front strap featured a flatter, larger-radius profile.
At the time, I thought it was so there'd be more meat for bolting a scope mount to the frame, and to allow more flexibility in front strap treatments. Springfield switched back to more of a Colt/G.I. contour circa 2002.
You can usually tell the old from the new by looking for how much of the frame flat is visible where the grip panel meets the frame radius; if the radius almost touches the grip, it's a later frame, but if there's 1/8" or more of flat visible, it's an older frame.

[mellow_c]

Ycastane. You can find a bunch of brand new DW heritage 1911's on www.gunbroker.com for $1099 After shipping and background check fee it would put you just a little under $1200.

Here is one where the bidding starts at $999 and the is a good chance you could get it for that price.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=486773502

They say it is brand new and NOT a blemish model. Also the flats on the slide have the brushed polished finish... I think there are some out there that do not have the polished flats, so look out for those if it matters to you. The gun has a buy it now price of $1049. If You've never bought from gun broker before don't worry, it's really easy, I could talk you through it with no problem if you had trouble on your own.

[Consort]

I've seen some of the "blemished" Dan Wessons. I wouldn't hesitate to add any one of them to my vault. Imperfections are hardly noticeable.

[redrick]

Bud's has them for $1060 with FS .

[ycastane]

Yeah I checked buds and saw it for $1060 I think if paid with a check or something of the sort, I will probably get it from there and have it shipped to a close by dealer.

[claydoctor]

My vote is usually for Dan Wesson but I recently bought one of those Sig Fastback Carrys pictured above and like it very much . I wanted a steel frame Commander sized bobtail and at $850 new on GB , it was half the cost of black V-Bob. It now sports VZ black desert sand Recons .

[hub1home]

The Colt Gold Cup Series 70, IMO, is the best out of the box handgun that I have ever encountered. That includes guns like the Python, S&W 29, CZ75, and more.

And I recently had to decide whether to get the Colt Wiley Clapp Commander or the re-make of the Colt Series 70 Gold Cup and I picked the Wiley Clapp. It doesn't hold didly squat to the Gold Cup again IMO.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by hub1home

The Colt Gold Cup Series 70, IMO, is the best out of the box handgun that I have ever encountered.

The only current model Colt offers that has "Series 70" in the name is not a Gold Cup. I had never heard of anything called a "Gold Cup Series 70" so I had to check Colt's web site. I guess you were referring to the model O5870A1, which is available only in blue, not stainless. (The stainless Gold Cup has the series 80 firing pin safety, which is not a bad thing IMHO.) List price is $1,299, but it should be available on the street for a bit under the OP's $1200 budget.

[Nathan]

Did you get one yet?

My recommendations:
- first 1911 should be a 5" full size gun
- blue, park'd or SS are the std finishes
- get a std series 70 or 80 gun to be more std, in case you start thinking customization


Of the choices mentioned, I like DW best due to the lack of MIM innards. Colt also makes a great 1911 at this price. Also, you might be able to find a SA TRP in this range, which is a fine gun.

Kimber makes guns from $800 to $2500....all are pretty, all are basically the same MIM filled gun. They all look great...some shoot well too...the good ones are sometimes $800 and sometimes $1700....no tell in'.

[fire4606]

Clay,

Where did you fine one, I looked for those for a long time and could never find one

[1goodshot]

What about an entry level Colt, shoot it for a while then change what you want.
Don't forget you will need a holster an ammo

[tomrkba]

Kimber, the company, just sucks.

Their repair shop is awful...they missed basic flaws in my guns. All they had to do is spend 20 minutes looking at it. But...nope...they just threw some lube on it and sent it back.

The lying about how they would tune the replacement gun was the final straw.

[Zip06]

There are plenty of excellent 1911's in the marketplace. The Colt is the father of all of the rest of the industry. If the history means nothing to you and you are only interested in a "shooter" get a Springfield or Dan Wesson. In your price range neither will disappoint you.