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May 26, 2015, 10:05 PM | #26 | ||||||||
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Quote:
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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May 26, 2015, 10:31 PM | #27 |
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Here's an excellent video on that topic, also from Andrew Branca.
https://www.corneredcat.com/dont-tal...e-good-advice/ pax |
May 26, 2015, 10:49 PM | #28 |
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I was told no matter what if you were even in the right to do so you don't tell the cops nothing until you talk to a lawyer. Near tell the police the story because most are taught you are guilty until proven innocent now days.
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May 26, 2015, 10:58 PM | #29 |
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Oh, well, if you were told differently, I guess it doesn't matter what case law or expert advice says.
pax |
May 26, 2015, 11:42 PM | #30 | |
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See posts 6, 26, and 27.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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May 27, 2015, 02:54 AM | #31 |
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In the case of a 911 call, in which you are reporting some act, an act that you were involved in, you really must give information, at that time, to obtain a response, you did call them, did you not?
The response, in my experience, has been "What is your emergency?" That sets up the tenure of all that follows? |
May 27, 2015, 10:41 AM | #32 |
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If you say nothing when the cops show up at your self-defense shooting scene, you will be arrested and jailed. Guaranteed. You'll get to talk to your lawyer then. I'll bet that's not going to be the same idiot that advised you to clam up, either.
If you tell them the basic facts, instead, being "I was attacked. I had to shoot. He had a knife. I'm pretty shook right now, I'll give you a full statement tomorrow at the station.", you probably won't be arrested, you probably won't go to jail for a day or two, you won't lose your firearms, and you won't be the laughingstock of the legal community. |
May 27, 2015, 04:57 PM | #33 |
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I know of several defensive shootings, non were arrested that I know about.
It does go to the DA briefly, then no charges filed.
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May 27, 2015, 05:23 PM | #34 |
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Re: The Right to Remain Silent
Being charged with a crime following an SD shooting is fundamentally different than being charged with a garden-variety crime. In many jurisdictions, SD is an affirmative defense. In some jurisdictions, it's a "simple" defense. In either case, it's incumbent on the defendant to produce some evidence that the shooting was, in fact, a case of SD.
That means that in the case of garden-variety charges, a defendant's best posture is often one of: "You can't prove that I did it." In the case of charges arising from an SD event, the SD Shooter/Defendant has to admit to having shot (& perhaps killed) someone in order to claim SD, so his posture is more like: "I did it, but I had a REALLY good reason." Because of the preceding, it's really important for the SD Shooter to get the investigation off to a good start. If the bad guy threw his knife down a storm drain, the SDS needs to tell the police, "He had a knife and he threw it down that storm drain." If he doesn't, no cop in the world is going to go down that drain looking. If the bad guys used improvised weapons, SDS needs to point them out. Otherwise, the broken bottle with which Thug #1 threatened you is just a broken bottle, not a reason to shoot. In dealing with the police in the aftermath, the best thing would be to say the right thing. The second best thing is to say nothing. The worst thing would be to say the wrong thing.
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May 27, 2015, 08:06 PM | #35 | |
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I'm acquainted with several people who've been involved in self-defense shootings. In two of those cases, the situation was fairly obvious, and no arrests were made. Both people had to testify before a grand jury. Another case involves someone I'll call Bob. A man beat and killed someone in front of several witnesses. The man then took the victim's car and tried to get away. In the process, he struck Bob's car. When Bob stopped, the man attacked him. Bob shot him, again in front of several witnesses. Bob was charged. Bob had to make bail. Bob had to pay over $4000 in legal fees. Bob got raked over the coals in a very long grand jury investigation before the DA decided not to charge him. There is simply no way to say that X will happen if you do Y. None. A homicide has been committed, and everything goes on the line.
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May 27, 2015, 08:53 PM | #36 | ||
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Several years ago a lawyer by the name of Lisa Steele wrote an excellent article for lawyers on defending a self defense case. The article was entitled "Defending a Self Defense Case" and published in the March, 2007, edition of the journal of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers, The Champion. It was republished in four parts, with permission, on the website, Truth About Guns. The article as republished can be read here: Part 1; Part 2; Part 3; and Part 4. As Ms. Steele explains the unique character of a self defense case in Part 1:
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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May 28, 2015, 09:08 PM | #37 |
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Frank, thank you for post #6. Now I have a clear understanding that I did not get in my conceal carry class. I just had the paperwork done and now awaiting my permit.
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May 28, 2015, 11:18 PM | #38 |
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Noone can tell you for sure how the process will go after the incident.
One thing to remember though, if you HAVE to shoot someone in self-defense and are legally justified in doing so as your OP says, you are the one that is alive and walking away. You will get to see your family again and did absolutely nothing wrong in defending your own life or someone's life that you care about. |
May 29, 2015, 11:21 AM | #39 | |
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Quote:
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May 29, 2015, 11:26 AM | #40 |
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I understand what you are saying and it is true, but if you are six feet under, it really doesn't matter what other people decide then.
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May 29, 2015, 11:50 AM | #41 | |
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May 29, 2015, 12:06 PM | #42 | |
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You do need to be careful what you do say to law enforcement. You're going to be coming down off a tremendous adrenaline rush, and you may blab something that could be used against you later. "He kicked in the door and attacked me with a knife" is good. It helps establish the situation. "That ratchety sleazebucket deserved a few extra holes" is not so good. It implies a vigilante mindset. Generally, the best thing to do is give law enforcement the information they need to secure and process the scene. That guy on the floor kicked in my door. He had the knife that's over there. I discharged this weapon. Those two people there witnessed the event. I'll be glad to cooperate, but I'm a mess right now. I'd like to have an attorney present during questioning. I suppose I have the right to clam up and refuse to say anything, but that could lead to critical evidence being overlooked.
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May 29, 2015, 12:10 PM | #43 | |
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May 29, 2015, 12:29 PM | #44 |
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I live in Georgia, so I can't speak for what goes on in Texas, but we have almost daily CCW usage in the news here and I have yet to hear of the defender getting arrested. Just in the last month, we have a man at a car wash shoot the driver of SOMEONE ELSE'S carjacked car,a man defending his life during a smoke shop robbery and a man holds a would be carjacker at gunpoint until police arrive. That's just outside the home ccw, this doesn't include thw dozens of burglars that get shot every year. But I have yet to hear a case of the ccw holder getting arrested after a "good" shoot. I'm not saying it doesn't ever happen and tgat we shoukdnt take time to understand the laws and repercussions, I just think its outside the normal to be put in cuffs IF the police have reason to believe you were in fear of injury or death. But like I said, this is Georgia, and the courts seem to be working on our side lately.
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May 29, 2015, 12:47 PM | #45 |
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In NJ you'd end up in jail. Even though we do have some right to self defense, most prosecutors are of the opinion you should just go ahead and get die. Then the cops will arrest them and they'll go to jail for murder.
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May 29, 2015, 02:18 PM | #46 |
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Indeed. As noted, jurisdiction matters a lot.
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May 29, 2015, 03:02 PM | #47 | |
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Quote:
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I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some. |
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May 29, 2015, 03:05 PM | #48 | |
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Quote:
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I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some. |
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May 29, 2015, 04:58 PM | #49 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper |
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May 29, 2015, 05:24 PM | #50 |
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Of all the SD shootings noted above, where the shooter was not arrested, how many of them involved the shooter clamming up when the police showed up, refusing to say anything without a lawyer?
I'm betting not a single one. Also, several shootings were in public, with witnesses, giving the police more than just the shooter's word for it. When the police show up and find you standing over a body, or two, with a smoking gun in your hand, you'd better tell them the basics. "This is my house. I live here. I woke up and found these men in the hall. They attacked me. I was afraid for my life. I shot them both. They had a screwdriver and that iron bar you see on the floor. I'm pretty shook, I'll make a full statement tomorrow downtown. What time should my lawyer and I come by?" |
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