How many do you shoot?

Keltyke · April 14, 2008, 02:35 PM

In a tatical situation, you're carying concealed on the street, in public, one assailant. How many times do you shoot and why?

I've heard:
1. Fire'em all
2. Fire two for effect, reevaluate the threat, continue firing or stop.
3. Fire until the threat is negated.

What say y'all?

Gerald

Del · April 14, 2008, 02:41 PM

I would fire two if placed properly and reacess situation.

Del

FlyfishTom · April 14, 2008, 02:42 PM

Keep firing until there is no threat.

tecdv · April 14, 2008, 02:59 PM

We were taught to fire until the threat is no longer a threat. That does not mean kill, but until there is no longer a threat. That being said, if you empty your gun and there is still a threat, your shot placement needs some serious work.....

SundownRider · April 14, 2008, 03:01 PM

Shoot until the threat has been neutralized.

DMacLeod · April 14, 2008, 03:05 PM

You won't know until the situation arises. Then hopefully instincts and training take over.

Hopefully you never have to find out your answer.

B.N.Real · April 14, 2008, 03:24 PM

Shoot once,hit the assailant and keep him in your sights if he does'nt stop advancing.

Fire again if necessary after warning him he's about to get himself killed if he does'nt stop what he's doing.

Keltyke · April 14, 2008, 03:42 PM

All good answers. Thanks a lot guys, you just backed up what I've been taught. Fire until you don't have to.

To those who wished I never have to find out, Amen to THAT! I just got my CWP (had it before and let it lapse) and I'm going to get some tatical training to back it up.

Gerald

shortwave · April 14, 2008, 04:28 PM

shoot until threat is negated

RJay · April 14, 2008, 04:32 PM

Shoot until your gun is empty and them run like hell!

NWdude83 · April 14, 2008, 05:08 PM

I'd say 2-3, then if more is needed, squeeze off a couple more.

OnTheFly · April 14, 2008, 05:24 PM

I've heard a couple of people mentioning the "Mozambique Drill". You can read about it here or at Wikipedia.

Fly

chris in va · April 14, 2008, 05:42 PM

You shoot to stop the threat. Once the perp is no longer able/willing to hurt you, the firing stops. Period.

Could be one shot, could be a couple mags.

People really need to be educated about that nuance on here.

Magyar · April 14, 2008, 05:54 PM

Concealment & cover 1st...Evaluate the situation....As a CCW holder, fire only if necessary to stop an immediate threat....

cschwanz · April 14, 2008, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Fire again if necessary after warning him he's about to get himself killed if he does'nt stop what he's doing.

If i have to draw and fire on an attacker, im not going to spend the time talking to him if i have already fired once. there is a statistic (and im sure i'd sound a lot smarter if i actually knew it off the top of my head) that says a SD gun encounter will last only a few seconds. Im not going to waste them trying to convince somebody not to make me shoot them again. Ill be glad to try to de-escalate a situation, but if the gun is drawn and a first shot is fired, i'm shooting until i feel i don't need to anymore.

Recon7 · April 14, 2008, 07:43 PM

I'll say #3

fire em all would mean 17 rounds from the glock and several of those would be going into a corpse laying on the ground. I doubt any DA would like that.

El Paso Joe · April 14, 2008, 09:43 PM

Double tap and a head shot - aka Mozambique. Practice it. It should be instinct before you have to use it.

The grist for my mill is multiple threats - is it a double tap for each and then a head shot for each or a double tap and head shot for each in turn... The latter may slow down the process but it will be what is practiced.

Then - when the constabulary arrives it is "I was afraid for my (or another's) life. I don't want to talk to you. I want a lawyer." Then shut up. Your life is going to be rough for a while (but you are alive). Get a counselor or clergy - you will need it.

**JohnKSa** · April 14, 2008, 10:27 PM

You should fire as needed to stop the threat. You should NOT fire a fixed number of shots simply because you were forced to engage. If merely drawing the gun causes the assailant to run then you don't fire. If the first shot ends the threat, shooting two more is not legal. If the second shot stops the attack, following up with a head shot is certainly not warranted or legal.

In my opinion it is not at all a good idea to make public statements about practicing to instinctively shoot 3 shots including a head shot to respond to any attack.

Dallas13 · April 14, 2008, 10:55 PM

In the defensive shooting courses I have taken the instructers all recommend neutralizing the threats not firing a particular number of rounds. Most drills are two to the chest. If this does not neutralize the threat, we are trained to immediately take a "failure" shot, which is the area right around the eyes and nose. A slightly modified Mozambique Drill.

Jake M. · April 14, 2008, 11:35 PM

It is one thing to give the right answer in a forum, but are we training that way? On the range we fire two or three times, then quickly scan and holster, so that we can hurry up and do the drill again. When we do force on force you shoot the bad guy, he holds up his hand and states, "You got me. stop shooting." I know the military has pop up targets that you knock down, but most people don't. One solution is to slow down after you fire two to the chest and one to the head. Take a second and ask yourself a few questions. Did I hit him? Is he no longer a threat? Wow that intense! Then scan for threats, and double check that he is still down before holstering.

AdamSean · April 14, 2008, 11:43 PM

Two may not do it and all in the mag may be too many. Fired as many as it takes to end the threat. I am used to double taps so I hope that I am accurate enough that it will be enough. If not, I will most likely have the time to take a nice aimed shot and place it exactly where I want it.

Just remember we are going to have to explain our actions in court.

even11 · April 15, 2008, 12:07 AM

The only reason you are shooting in the first place is because you are in immediate danger from a threat. You fire until there is no longer a threat.

-Dane

Hook686 · April 15, 2008, 12:13 AM

In a situation where my life was on the line, I'd shoot until the threat ceased to be there.

ActivShootr · April 15, 2008, 12:36 AM

DMacLeod and JohnKSa gave the most fitting answers. It all depends on the situation.

fastbolt · April 15, 2008, 12:39 AM

While driving a motor vehicle on a public road ...

... You suddenly find yourself facing an emergency situation which requires you to take action ... and the action you determine which will best serve your needs to save your life, based upon what you reasonably know at that moment, requires the application of the brakes. (Of course, the best action might be proper control of the throttle and/or judicious steering - like lane displacement - instead of the "B" word, but let's just say that some sort of braking is appropriate in this hypothetical situation ...

How many times do you apply the brakes ... how hard ... and for how long?

Circumstances may vary.

Actions generally have consequences.

April 14, 2008, 02:35 PM	#1
Keltyke Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: Spartanburg, SC Posts: 2,933	How many do you shoot? In a tatical situation, you're carying concealed on the street, in public, one assailant. How many times do you shoot and why? I've heard: 1. Fire'em all 2. Fire two for effect, reevaluate the threat, continue firing or stop. 3. Fire until the threat is negated. What say y'all? Gerald

April 14, 2008, 02:41 PM	#2
Del Member Join Date: September 5, 2007 Posts: 25	Keltyke I would fire two if placed properly and reacess situation. Del

April 14, 2008, 03:01 PM	#5
SundownRider Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2006 Location: Illinois Posts: 509	Shoot until the threat has been neutralized. __________________ " Of every One-Hundred men, Ten shouldn't even be there, Eighty are nothing but targets, Nine are real fighters... We are lucky to have them...They make the battle. Ah, but the One, One of them is a Warrior... and He will bring the others back." - Heraclitus (circa 500 BC)

April 14, 2008, 05:24 PM	#12
OnTheFly Senior Member Join Date: January 9, 2007 Location: SE Nebraska Posts: 859	I've heard a couple of people mentioning the "Mozambique Drill". You can read about it here or at Wikipedia. Fly __________________ I told my wife I was scheduling a mid-life crisis. It was either a Harley or guns. Secretly, I've already decided on guns. :-) Bang... Bang... Bang...

April 14, 2008, 05:54 PM	#14
Magyar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,581	Concealment & cover 1st...Evaluate the situation....As a CCW holder, fire only if necessary to stop an immediate threat.... __________________ *"Gun companies and gun magazines have long had relationships beyond cozy" C.J. Chivers, author "THE GUN"*

April 14, 2008, 02:42 PM	#3
FlyfishTom Member Join Date: December 3, 2004 Location: East Central Florida Posts: 23	Keep firing until there is no threat.

April 14, 2008, 02:59 PM	#4
tecdv Member Join Date: August 4, 2006 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 36	We were taught to fire until the threat is no longer a threat. That does not mean kill, but until there is no longer a threat. That being said, if you empty your gun and there is still a threat, your shot placement needs some serious work.....

April 14, 2008, 03:05 PM	#6
DMacLeod Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2008 Location: Maine Posts: 425	You won't know until the situation arises. Then hopefully instincts and training take over. Hopefully you never have to find out your answer.

April 14, 2008, 03:24 PM	#7
B.N.Real Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 2008 Posts: 4,092	Shoot once,hit the assailant and keep him in your sights if he does'nt stop advancing. Fire again if necessary after warning him he's about to get himself killed if he does'nt stop what he's doing.

April 14, 2008, 03:42 PM	#8
Keltyke Junior member Join Date: April 6, 2008 Location: Spartanburg, SC Posts: 2,933	All good answers. Thanks a lot guys, you just backed up what I've been taught. Fire until you don't have to. To those who wished I never have to find out, Amen to THAT! I just got my CWP (had it before and let it lapse) and I'm going to get some tatical training to back it up. Gerald

April 14, 2008, 04:28 PM	#9
shortwave Senior Member Join Date: December 17, 2007 Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO Posts: 5,970	shoot until threat is negated

April 14, 2008, 04:32 PM	#10
RJay Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2005 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,936	Shoot until your gun is empty and them run like hell!

April 14, 2008, 05:08 PM	#11
NWdude83 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2008 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 351	I'd say 2-3, then if more is needed, squeeze off a couple more.

April 14, 2008, 05:42 PM	#13
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	You shoot to stop the threat. Once the perp is no longer able/willing to hurt you, the firing stops. Period. Could be one shot, could be a couple mags. People really need to be educated about that nuance on here.

April 14, 2008, 07:43 PM	#16
Recon7 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2005 Posts: 707	I'll say #3 fire em all would mean 17 rounds from the glock and several of those would be going into a corpse laying on the ground. I doubt any DA would like that.

April 14, 2008, 09:43 PM	#17
El Paso Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2006 Location: Spokane Valley Posts: 340	Double tap and a head shot - aka Mozambique. Practice it. It should be instinct before you have to use it. The grist for my mill is multiple threats - is it a double tap for each and then a head shot for each or a double tap and head shot for each in turn... The latter may slow down the process but it will be what is practiced. Then - when the constabulary arrives it is "I was afraid for my (or another's) life. I don't want to talk to you. I want a lawyer." Then shut up. Your life is going to be rough for a while (but you are alive). Get a counselor or clergy - you will need it.

April 14, 2008, 10:27 PM	#18
JohnKSa Staff Join Date: February 12, 2001 Location: DFW Area Posts: 24,990	You should fire as needed to stop the threat. You should NOT fire a fixed number of shots simply because you were forced to engage. If merely drawing the gun causes the assailant to run then you don't fire. If the first shot ends the threat, shooting two more is not legal. If the second shot stops the attack, following up with a head shot is certainly not warranted or legal. In my opinion it is not at all a good idea to make public statements about practicing to instinctively shoot 3 shots including a head shot to respond to any attack. __________________ Do you know about the TEXAS State Rifle Association?

April 14, 2008, 10:55 PM	#19
Dallas13 Member Join Date: December 5, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 36	In the defensive shooting courses I have taken the instructers all recommend neutralizing the threats not firing a particular number of rounds. Most drills are two to the chest. If this does not neutralize the threat, we are trained to immediately take a "failure" shot, which is the area right around the eyes and nose. A slightly modified Mozambique Drill.

April 14, 2008, 11:35 PM	#20
Jake M. Junior Member Join Date: April 12, 2008 Posts: 5	It is one thing to give the right answer in a forum, but are we training that way? On the range we fire two or three times, then quickly scan and holster, so that we can hurry up and do the drill again. When we do force on force you shoot the bad guy, he holds up his hand and states, "You got me. stop shooting." I know the military has pop up targets that you knock down, but most people don't. One solution is to slow down after you fire two to the chest and one to the head. Take a second and ask yourself a few questions. Did I hit him? Is he no longer a threat? Wow that intense! Then scan for threats, and double check that he is still down before holstering.

April 14, 2008, 11:43 PM	#21
AdamSean Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Tuscaloosa, AL Posts: 479	Two may not do it and all in the mag may be too many. Fired as many as it takes to end the threat. I am used to double taps so I hope that I am accurate enough that it will be enough. If not, I will most likely have the time to take a nice aimed shot and place it exactly where I want it. Just remember we are going to have to explain our actions in court.

April 15, 2008, 12:07 AM	#22
even11 Senior Member Join Date: June 8, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 187	The only reason you are shooting in the first place is because you are in immediate danger from a threat. You fire until there is no longer a threat. -Dane __________________ Ref. Psalm 1911: " And yea, though I walk through the Valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for I go cocked and locked. My Hydra-Shoks and my Black Talons they comfort me." -Revjen45

April 15, 2008, 12:13 AM	#23
Hook686 Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2005 Location: USA The Great State of California Posts: 2,090	In a situation where my life was on the line, I'd shoot until the threat ceased to be there. __________________ Hook686 When the number of people in institutions reaches 51%, we change sides.

April 15, 2008, 12:36 AM	#24
ActivShootr Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2007 Posts: 1,040	DMacLeod and JohnKSa gave the most fitting answers. It all depends on the situation.

April 15, 2008, 12:39 AM	#25
fastbolt Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2002 Location: northern CA for a little while longer Posts: 1,931	While driving a motor vehicle on a public road ... ... You suddenly find yourself facing an emergency situation which requires you to take action ... and the action you determine which will best serve your needs to save your life, based upon what you reasonably know at that moment, requires the application of the brakes. (Of course, the best action might be proper control of the throttle and/or judicious steering - like lane displacement - instead of the "B" word, but let's just say that some sort of braking is appropriate in this hypothetical situation ... How many times do you apply the brakes ... how hard ... and for how long? Circumstances may vary. Actions generally have consequences. __________________ Retired LE - firearms instructor & armorer