Bottom Pour vs. Ladle for longer, heavier, bullets

stubbicatt · August 25, 2015, 05:35 AM

I've had good luck pouring pistol bullets from a bottom pour pot. Not so much with longer, or longer and heavier, bullets.

I have developed a technique with my RCBS ladle where I place the spout of the ladle into the bevel of the sprueplate, while the whole assembly is more or less horizontal, tip the whole assembly vertical for a count of 2 or 3 depending on the size of the bullet, and gently remove the ladle from the bevel to leave a sprue. I've been getting much more consistent pours as a result.

Thought I'd share.

dahermit · August 25, 2015, 05:38 AM

You have re-discovered an old-timey technique.

mehavey · August 25, 2015, 06:06 AM

As DaHermit notes... welcome to that exclusive club of
those who've discovered the secret of BigDog success:

PaulJones 45001 Creedmoor (540gr)
Lyman #2 at 780°
Dipper in contact full 5 seconds
Sprue cut a full 30 sec after solidify

stubbicatt · August 25, 2015, 05:34 PM

Mehavey, you wait 30 seconds to cut the sprue? Dang!

That is a pretty bullet, but generally I'm waiting about 10 seconds. I will try your technique and see if I notice anything different.

What I would like to do is to somehow more closely match the taper of the ladle spout to the taper of the sprue plate. Sometimes I get alloy pouring out around the non-existent "seal".

Another question. I find that this technique only works with single cavity moulds. Any advice for a multi cavity mould and ladle pouring?

mehavey · August 25, 2015, 06:50 PM

This is what happens with that heavy a bullet when only 10 seconds cooling times elapses:

"Sugar Cookie" break.

~~~~~~~~ BREAK BREAK ~~~~~~~~~

When pouring a double mould, just hold on the first cavity for a 3-count, then simply move quickly to the second cavity and hold again. Yup you get some spillage, and lead onto the sprue plate, but no big deal.

stubbicatt · August 26, 2015, 06:21 AM

Hm. I've never experienced that break on my 510 grain .460" Hoch bullets with a 10 second hold. If I don't hold for at least 10 seconds, the bullet base will be deformed. I'm going to try your 30 second wait technique.

I don't suppose it will hurt anything, just slow things down a bit, I suppose.

Thanks for the good idea Mehavey.

I tried ladle pouring for 45 ACP bullets in a 4 cavity Saeco mould, and it just didn't work well. I guess maybe the cavities are too close together, but I would inevitably get some spillage into the next cavity, and a ruined bullet. For this application it is bottom pour all the way.

As an aside, I really like the .324" 200 grainer "Pope Style" from Saeco. Really pretty bullets. And they pan lube really well also. My first experiment with tapered bullets.

With 20-1 or 30-1 though, I keep the pot at 725*. And for richer alloys a little cooler than that, as I seem to get less shrinkage. I've read elsewhere that anything higher temperature the tin boils off.

Another aside, I really like my Lee hardness tester. Neat little tool.

mehavey · August 26, 2015, 07:06 AM

In base-pour, bullets tend to cool/harden from the bottom (nose) on
back up to the sprue plate. As I got (get) older, I find I can fairly calibrate
the "Goldilocks" moment by cutting resistance in the sprue plate. Too hard --
waited too long. Too easy -- better not separate the mould halves just yet.

Lead -- 800 dgr
30:1 -- 740-750-ish
#2 ---- 700

In pouring for multicavity, I keep the mould at a very slight angle sitting on the
near-edge of the pot and pour the low (pot-most) cavity first. Coming off that
cavity I quickly move to the next higher cavity, and then next higher, ...etc.
That way any spillage flows over an already poured portion of the sprue plate.

August 25, 2015, 05:35 AM	#1
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Bottom Pour vs. Ladle for longer, heavier, bullets I've had good luck pouring pistol bullets from a bottom pour pot. Not so much with longer, or longer and heavier, bullets. I have developed a technique with my RCBS ladle where I place the spout of the ladle into the bevel of the sprueplate, while the whole assembly is more or less horizontal, tip the whole assembly vertical for a count of 2 or 3 depending on the size of the bullet, and gently remove the ladle from the bevel to leave a sprue. I've been getting much more consistent pours as a result. Thought I'd share.

August 26, 2015, 06:21 AM	#6
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Hm. I've never experienced that break on my 510 grain .460" Hoch bullets with a 10 second hold. If I don't hold for at least 10 seconds, the bullet base will be deformed. I'm going to try your 30 second wait technique. I don't suppose it will hurt anything, just slow things down a bit, I suppose. Thanks for the good idea Mehavey. I tried ladle pouring for 45 ACP bullets in a 4 cavity Saeco mould, and it just didn't work well. I guess maybe the cavities are too close together, but I would inevitably get some spillage into the next cavity, and a ruined bullet. For this application it is bottom pour all the way. As an aside, I really like the .324" 200 grainer "Pope Style" from Saeco. Really pretty bullets. And they pan lube really well also. My first experiment with tapered bullets. With 20-1 or 30-1 though, I keep the pot at 725. And for richer alloys a little cooler than that, as I seem to get less shrinkage. I've read elsewhere that anything higher temperature the tin boils off. Another aside, I really like my Lee hardness tester. Neat little tool. Last edited by stubbicatt; August 26, 2015 at 06:31 AM.*

August 26, 2015, 07:06 AM	#7
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	In base-pour, bullets tend to cool/harden from the bottom (nose) on back up to the sprue plate. As I got (get) older, I find I can fairly calibrate the "Goldilocks" moment by cutting resistance in the sprue plate. Too hard -- waited too long. Too easy -- better not separate the mould halves just yet. Lead -- 800 dgr 30:1 -- 740-750-ish #2 ---- 700 In pouring for multicavity, I keep the mould at a very slight angle sitting on the near-edge of the pot and pour the low (pot-most) cavity first. Coming off that cavity I quickly move to the next higher cavity, and then next higher, ...etc. That way any spillage flows over an already poured portion of the sprue plate. Last edited by mehavey; August 26, 2015 at 07:12 AM.

August 25, 2015, 05:38 AM	#2
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	You have re-discovered an old-timey technique.

August 25, 2015, 06:06 AM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	As DaHermit notes... welcome to that exclusive club of those who've discovered the secret of BigDog success: PaulJones 45001 Creedmoor (540gr) Lyman #2 at 780° Dipper in contact full 5 seconds Sprue cut a full 30 sec after solidify

August 25, 2015, 05:34 PM	#4
stubbicatt Senior Member Join Date: September 15, 2007 Posts: 1,707	Mehavey, you wait 30 seconds to cut the sprue? Dang! That is a pretty bullet, but generally I'm waiting about 10 seconds. I will try your technique and see if I notice anything different. What I would like to do is to somehow more closely match the taper of the ladle spout to the taper of the sprue plate. Sometimes I get alloy pouring out around the non-existent "seal". Another question. I find that this technique only works with single cavity moulds. Any advice for a multi cavity mould and ladle pouring?

August 25, 2015, 06:50 PM	#5
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,885	This is what happens with that heavy a bullet when only 10 seconds cooling times elapses: "Sugar Cookie" break. ~~~~~~~~ BREAK BREAK ~~~~~~~~~ When pouring a double mould, just hold on the first cavity for a 3-count, then simply move quickly to the second cavity and hold again. Yup you get some spillage, and lead onto the sprue plate, but no big deal.