Colt Single Action Army?

srfisher3 · May 10, 2015, 01:35 PM

A close friend of mine is selling his Colt SSA serial #322 348 chambered in .38 wcf. The serial # is stamped in one place, on the bottom of the grip. I can't find any markings on the bottom of the trigger guard or barrel...I know very little about these firearms and would like for any assistance in determining its value. It's difficult for me to rate its condition, not knowing what condition these weapons are SUPPOSED to be in.. as is, the gun is not fire-able. The cylinder does not turn smoothly and it the action slips in and out of the half-cocked position. Can anyone give me some details or suggestions on this weapon? Thank you. Hopefully the photos attached will help.

James K · May 10, 2015, 07:56 PM

That gun looks in pretty good shape but there are some problems. First, any Generation 1 Colt SAA with the serial on the butt should also have it on the bottom front of the frame and on the trigger guard. If that gun does not, it raises questions about its originality.

Of course, the mechanical problems will reduce its value, depending on what is wrong. The half cock problem could be a broken trigger (a minor problem) or a broken hammer. The latter is a major problem not because of the cost of a hammer but because finding the proper hammer might be difficult. The cylinder problem could be a broken hand spring (easy fix) or a broken/worn ratchet, a more serious problem.

Fortunately, there are many gunsmiths familiar with the SAA due to the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting, as well as many DIY books on the gun. Further, parts are widely available; foreign reproductions are common, as are parts, and Colt still makes the SAA, though modern parts might not interchange.

Jim

Lurch37 · May 10, 2015, 09:38 PM

If I did my calculating correctly that serial number puts it as a 1912 manufacture...and if so, that colt is in pretty good shape for being over a hundred years old. That being said it does have issues and as Jim said they could be big or small, and of course, costly or fairly cheap.

One thing I always consider is instances as these is obviously the asking price, which we do not know. So depending on that, I would be buying unless the price leaves no room for repairs.

SaxonPig · May 11, 2015, 08:07 AM

I am no expert but I think the serial should be on the frame. If the serial does not appear on the bottom of the frame ahead of the trigger guard the frame has lost its number (does it appear ground or polished off?) and is technically contraband subject to confiscation and destruction by law enforcement. Being on the grip frame doesn't meet legal requirement as that part is removable.

It's not impossible that the gun is a fake, created by using a newly manufactured clone frame with 1st G parts. Again, any sign of removing a serial?

I would not buy any gun I suspected may be altered. You need to have an expert look at it in person.

RickB · May 11, 2015, 06:30 PM

The photo appear to show ".38 WCF" on the barrel?
The serial is not on the trigger guard or frame?
So, we're pretty sure that the back strap was made in 1912, but not much else.

5thShock · May 11, 2015, 08:08 PM

Suggestions? Get that lovely thing fixed up, get a 38-40 Lee Loader and shoot it . It's too good to put away. Some good leather too, something in, say, Border Country.

RickB · May 12, 2015, 06:43 PM

If there's no serial number on the frame, and it's a Colt frame, you could go to the big house for all day if da feds catch you.
Someone might not know that the serial on the grip frame isn't THE serial number, but do you want to risk it?

**4V50 Gary** · May 12, 2015, 07:19 PM

Do not get it fixed. It's the buyer's problem. That Colt will command enough ducats on its own without being fixed.

BTW, if parts are replaced, the original parts should be kept.

salvadore · May 14, 2015, 07:03 PM

I think your shooter looks great, nice screw heads, everything seems to fit, it's just purty. I'm not sure I'd worry about the serial# stuff, the ATF is pretty busy supplying Mexican drug cartels with AKs to worry about your SAA. I'd be curious what the barrel looks like and how much it would take to get it shooting. It needs to be shot.

Driftwood Johnson · May 14, 2015, 07:55 PM

Howdy

This is how the Serial Number should appear on a 1st Gen Colt. The upper number in the photo has been stamped on the frame. That is the Serial Number of record. The lower number in the photo has been stamped on the trigger guard. It is NOT the SN of record. Serial Numbers are stamped directly on the frame, not on a part that is removable like the trigger guard or backstrap. This particular Colt also has the SN stamped on the bottom of the butt. Most 1st Gen Colts (made from 1873 until 1940) that I have examined had the SN in all three places, but I stress, the SN of the gun is stamped on the frame, not anywhere else.

I have a couple of 2nd Gen Colts too. They do not have the SN stamped on the trigger guard or the butt, only on the frame.

If it wuz me, I would not touch that gun with a ten foot pole. There are plenty of old Colts around that have the SN in the correct place. If you really want an old Colt, look around. Just because your friend owns it does not mean it is a good deal.

In addition, if the hammer slips in and out of the half cock loading position, the gun is unsafe. There is an over hanging lip on the half cock notch of a Colt. This lip captures the sear (tip of the trigger) so that the hammer cannot fall while the gun is being loaded. It is not at all uncommon for this over hanging lip to have broken off, either through mishandling, or slip shod gun repair. That is strike two against this gun. It needs the services of an expert Colt gunsmith to repair the broken hammer notch. Will probably involve welding new metal on and filing it to shape by hand.

James K · May 14, 2015, 08:46 PM

Later on, Colt went to stamping the serial number on the frame, as Driftwood shows, but the grip strap numbers were stamped on the side of the part and can't be seen unless the grips are removed.

But either way, a SAA with no number on the frame is at best questionable, at worst a violation of federal law. (Possession of a gun with the serial number removed is a felony, no matter who removed it or when.)

Jim

May 11, 2015, 06:30 PM	#5
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	The photo appear to show ".38 WCF" on the barrel? The serial is not on the trigger guard or frame? So, we're pretty sure that the back strap was made in 1912, but not much else. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

May 12, 2015, 06:43 PM	#7
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	If there's no serial number on the frame, and it's a Colt frame, you could go to the big house for all day if da feds catch you. Someone might not know that the serial on the grip frame isn't THE serial number, but do you want to risk it? __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.

May 12, 2015, 07:19 PM	#8
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Do not get it fixed. It's the buyer's problem. That Colt will command enough ducats on its own without being fixed. BTW, if parts are replaced, the original parts should be kept. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 14, 2015, 07:55 PM	#10
Driftwood Johnson Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2014 Location: Land of the Pilgrims Posts: 2,033	Howdy This is how the Serial Number should appear on a 1st Gen Colt. The upper number in the photo has been stamped on the frame. That is the Serial Number of record. The lower number in the photo has been stamped on the trigger guard. It is NOT the SN of record. Serial Numbers are stamped directly on the frame, not on a part that is removable like the trigger guard or backstrap. This particular Colt also has the SN stamped on the bottom of the butt. Most 1st Gen Colts (made from 1873 until 1940) that I have examined had the SN in all three places, but I stress, the SN of the gun is stamped on the frame, not anywhere else. I have a couple of 2nd Gen Colts too. They do not have the SN stamped on the trigger guard or the butt, only on the frame. If it wuz me, I would not touch that gun with a ten foot pole. There are plenty of old Colts around that have the SN in the correct place. If you really want an old Colt, look around. Just because your friend owns it does not mean it is a good deal. In addition, if the hammer slips in and out of the half cock loading position, the gun is unsafe. There is an over hanging lip on the half cock notch of a Colt. This lip captures the sear (tip of the trigger) so that the hammer cannot fall while the gun is being loaded. It is not at all uncommon for this over hanging lip to have broken off, either through mishandling, or slip shod gun repair. That is strike two against this gun. It needs the services of an expert Colt gunsmith to repair the broken hammer notch. Will probably involve welding new metal on and filing it to shape by hand. Last edited by Driftwood Johnson; May 14, 2015 at 08:04 PM.

May 10, 2015, 07:56 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That gun looks in pretty good shape but there are some problems. First, any Generation 1 Colt SAA with the serial on the butt should also have it on the bottom front of the frame and on the trigger guard. If that gun does not, it raises questions about its originality. Of course, the mechanical problems will reduce its value, depending on what is wrong. The half cock problem could be a broken trigger (a minor problem) or a broken hammer. The latter is a major problem not because of the cost of a hammer but because finding the proper hammer might be difficult. The cylinder problem could be a broken hand spring (easy fix) or a broken/worn ratchet, a more serious problem. Fortunately, there are many gunsmiths familiar with the SAA due to the popularity of Cowboy Action Shooting, as well as many DIY books on the gun. Further, parts are widely available; foreign reproductions are common, as are parts, and Colt still makes the SAA, though modern parts might not interchange. Jim

May 10, 2015, 09:38 PM	#3
Lurch37 Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2006 Location: Middle of Nebraska Posts: 941	If I did my calculating correctly that serial number puts it as a 1912 manufacture...and if so, that colt is in pretty good shape for being over a hundred years old. That being said it does have issues and as Jim said they could be big or small, and of course, costly or fairly cheap. One thing I always consider is instances as these is obviously the asking price, which we do not know. So depending on that, I would be buying unless the price leaves no room for repairs. __________________ I reject your reality and substitute my own.

May 11, 2015, 08:07 AM	#4
SaxonPig Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2006 Posts: 1,900	I am no expert but I think the serial should be on the frame. If the serial does not appear on the bottom of the frame ahead of the trigger guard the frame has lost its number (does it appear ground or polished off?) and is technically contraband subject to confiscation and destruction by law enforcement. Being on the grip frame doesn't meet legal requirement as that part is removable. It's not impossible that the gun is a fake, created by using a newly manufactured clone frame with 1st G parts. Again, any sign of removing a serial? I would not buy any gun I suspected may be altered. You need to have an expert look at it in person.

May 11, 2015, 08:08 PM	#6
5thShock Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2006 Posts: 400	Suggestions? Get that lovely thing fixed up, get a 38-40 Lee Loader and shoot it . It's too good to put away. Some good leather too, something in, say, Border Country.

May 14, 2015, 07:03 PM	#9
salvadore Junior member Join Date: January 1, 2007 Location: Idaho Posts: 2,282	I think your shooter looks great, nice screw heads, everything seems to fit, it's just purty. I'm not sure I'd worry about the serial# stuff, the ATF is pretty busy supplying Mexican drug cartels with AKs to worry about your SAA. I'd be curious what the barrel looks like and how much it would take to get it shooting. It needs to be shot.

May 14, 2015, 08:46 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Later on, Colt went to stamping the serial number on the frame, as Driftwood shows, but the grip strap numbers were stamped on the side of the part and can't be seen unless the grips are removed. But either way, a SAA with no number on the frame is at best questionable, at worst a violation of federal law. (Possession of a gun with the serial number removed is a felony, no matter who removed it or when.) Jim