30-06 Kicks too much? BULL [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]

Zorro · May 6, 2002, 12:02 AM

Sorry but the 30-06 is a soft recoiling pussycat of a gun.

Even .300 Winchester Magnum is just a little bit more than a 30-06.

I don't think I am a mutant and my FAVORITE Varmit round is 7mm Remington Magnum!

So...all you .308 shooters get over your SLOW bullets and and hit your target with WAY less drop!

Foxy · May 6, 2002, 01:55 AM

Just a quick look at my military standard ammunition charts..

30-06:
174gr@2675 - Ball M1
150gr@2500 - Ball M2

7.62x51:
150gr@2750 - US Ball M59
150gr@2750 - US AP M61

It looks like to me that the 7.62x51 is just about as speedy as .30-06.

Trolling?

Ewok_Guy · May 6, 2002, 04:42 PM

The recoil of a magnum caliber is only as hard as you think it is.

Mike Weber · May 6, 2002, 05:13 PM

Fired one of these rifles the first time when I was nine years old. I've never been bothered by the recoil of any rifle that I've fired since then. The old Springfield almost put me into a barbed wire fence. Stayed on my feet though. Anyone who thinks that a 30-06 is a hard kicker should try an 1861 Enfield Artillery Musketoon .58 cal. with a heavy load or a 50-140 Sharps

AR-10 · May 6, 2002, 05:14 PM

What does your uber ammo cost?
What do you shoot, like, twenty rounds a year?

My 7.62X51 runs me $.18 a round, and I shoot it all the time.

Unless your rolling your own for a quarter or less, I think I will stick with the incredibly slow ammo I have.

Thread Title needs work.

johnwill · May 6, 2002, 05:22 PM

I fail to see the point of this whole thread. Felt recoil is a subjective thing, and it rarely has much to do with caliber. The stock design, action type, and rifle weight has far more to do with felt recoil than similar calibers. I rate the 30-06 and .308 as similar calibers in this context.

In addition, if you want to varmint shoot with a 600 Nitro Express, have at it, you don't need our permission.

Marko Kloos · May 6, 2002, 05:35 PM

Amen. It all depends on the launch platform. If you think .308 is tame, try the Ruger Ultra Light M77 in that caliber. It has a 20" barrel and weighs all of six pounds...it'll rattle your fillings.

My most savage kicker is a Steyr Mannlicher M1895/34 chambered in 8x56R Hungarian, a cartridge in the same class as the .30-40 Krag or the .303 British. They make compact and handy lever guns in .45-70 and .444 Marlin that will teach you the meaning of recoil.

(For a real experience, try a 12ga. 3 1/2" Magnum load out of a lightweight Benelli Nova without the optional recoil buffer installed.)

Conversely, .30-06 out of a heavy old battle rifle like the M1917 is not terribly punishing. Simple physics...the lighter the rifle and the bigger the cartridge, the higher the perceived recoil, with bolt and lever guns kicking worse than autoloaders.

In two equally configured Ruger M77s, I doubt I could tell the difference in recoil between a .308 and a .30-06, unless you load them with vastly disparate loads and bullet weights.

Jamie Young · May 6, 2002, 06:34 PM

That's what I thought until I switched from 180gr to 150gr. It feels gooder.

**Mike Irwin** · May 6, 2002, 08:12 PM

I've been fortunate enough, in part through my association with American Rifleman magazine, to have fired some real thumpers over the years...

.505 Gibbs, .470 Nitro, .460 Wby., .425 Wesley Richards, etc.

As John Will says, recoil is a subjective thing.

I was MUCH more bothered by the recoil out of an Ithaca Model 37 firing 1 1/4 ounce slugs than I was from the .505 Gibbs, which has a fearsome reputation as a shoulder breaker.

_YoYo_ · May 6, 2002, 08:37 PM

I agree with johnwill.. It has nothing to do with caliber. I could shoot 300 rounds out of my 870 and be sore as hell the next morning.. I could shoot the same 300 rounds through my Banelli 391 with the mercury recoil reducer and the angle porting and not even think twice... my .308 weighs about 15 pounds, i can shoot it all day without a problem...
you want some kick.. take the brake off of my M99... or load up some 10ga buckshot and shoot it in my barretta both barrels same time..

Shooter 973 · May 6, 2002, 09:28 PM

Some thing that has been over looked is the fit of the rifle to the shooter. If the fit is to short or to long the recoil is different than if it is correct for the shooter. Also the cheek weld of the stock to the face has some effect on recoil as well as noise and preconceptions of the expected recoil. All of these thing can make a huge differance.

Cornbread2 · May 7, 2002, 11:16 AM

My M1a and my Garand kicks from the bench. They are very nice to shoot from prone with a sling like they are designed to be shot.

The Garand is 30-06 and the M1a is .308. There is not that much difference in recoil between the two.

I can shoot them both all day and they will not bother me.

Two rounds from a Remington pump 30-06 hurts like hell.

A .243 in the Remington pump rifle kicks much more than my Garand.

My old Turk Mauser will stomp you with Yugo ammo but it is not bad with the Turk ammo.

Most of the old M-44 carbines in 7.62-54 have a lot of recoil but you get used to them after a while.

Crimper-D · May 7, 2002, 08:04 PM

By using a muzzel brake.

Case in point: By BSA Monarch Majestic is a 30-06 that weighs in at about 6.5lbs scoped, slung and loaded = a "Featherweight", it has a recoil I feel is somewhat less than my Ruger M77 .243

Reason? The BSA people cut a "BESA Recoil Reducer" into the muzzel end when they made the little rifle, In effect, they Magna-Ported their rifle a couple of decades before Magnaporting came on the scene. Their claim was that felt recoil was reduced by up to 50% - Having shot mine for a couple decades, I'd say they were about right

The Minus side of this equation is, while this arrangement makes it lots more comfortable to shoot the light little weapon, it can make you decidedly unpopular with shooters on the line on either side of you

Talk about Muzzelblast!

Fun little gun to tote around all day in the heat...that couple of pounds less makes a big difference. You may only shoot the gun once on a hunt...but you have to carry the sucker all the way in and out.

Redlg155 · May 7, 2002, 08:41 PM

The more I shoot, the less I want my rifles to recoil. I generally want to get the least recoiling, most accurate, efficent weapon available to do the job at hand.

To me..the 30-06 recoil is very manageable. Especially in a gas operated rifle. But if I could do the same job with a .243, I'll use it instead.

Gezz....I must be getting soft.

Good Shooting
RED

RON in PA · May 7, 2002, 10:56 PM

Compare the felt recoil of 30/06 in a M1 rifle with the felt recoil in a 1903 Springfield. Weight and stock design are critical to the comfort of shooting.

**Mike Irwin** · May 7, 2002, 11:35 PM

Ron,

The M1 is gas operated, the 1903 is bolt action.

The fact that the M1 is gas operated softens the recoil SIGNIFICANTLY over the 1903.

That factor alone will make a huge difference in felt recoil.

Khornet · May 8, 2002, 06:26 AM

I think your data is off. My 1943 GI manual for the 03A3 specifies M2 ball at 2800 fps 150 gr bullet.

johnwill · May 8, 2002, 07:26 AM

As a case in point, I had an HK-91 until recently, got too good a price for it, and I sold it. While it only shoots the .308, it was an uncomfortable rifle to shoot, and the apparent recoil was greater than any of my 30-06 or .308 rifles. I believe most of it was the really poor design of the buttstock, since it wasn't a lightweight rifle. I suspect that the roller locking action may have added to the felt recoil, though I really don't know for sure. In any case, it was a wimpy .308, but that didn't stop it from kicking.

**Mike Irwin** · May 8, 2002, 01:21 PM

John,

That's funny. A friend of mine has a 91, and I think it's a real pussycat.

You sure you're not just a wimp or something?

johnwill · May 8, 2002, 03:34 PM

Quote:

That's funny. A friend of mine has a 91, and I think it's a real pussycat.

You should have coughed up the $2500 and bought mine, then you wouldn't have to borrow a friend's gun.

Like I said earlier in this thread, felt recoil is very subjective. If you like the HK, who am I to argue, I didn't like it, and now it's been "recycled".

**Mike Irwin** · May 8, 2002, 03:41 PM

I would have given you $50 for it.

Sure, it's fun to shoot, but not that much fun.

Byron Quick · May 8, 2002, 08:50 PM

Recoil is subjective, I reckon. My HK91 has always been easy. My M1A has tried to kick me to death a couple of times...poor technique on my part, I believe.

On the other hand, give me a .300 Win Mag with a deer in the sights...what recoil?

johnwill · May 9, 2002, 07:26 AM

That really is funny, because I find my M1 Garand to have less objectionable recoil than the HK-91, and the M14 is a pussycat to me. I had a chance to shoot one of those last summer a couple of times, and it was lots of fun, hardly any recoil at all. I think the major problem with the HK is the shape of the stock, but since it's been turned into some other guns at this point, it's no longer my problem.

Zorro · May 11, 2002, 12:38 AM

I belive bad Stock design is the source of LOTS of gripes about recoil.

The worst is the "Monte Carlo" type Stock.

I prefer a straight stock with no Remington BDL crap on it.

Weatherby has made some REALLY badly designed stocks too.

Straight Stock with a wide butt plate and a good recoil pad on everything. Even a .223.

Art Eatman · May 11, 2002, 07:52 AM

Zorro, it's not the Monte Carlo comb, itself. It's the taper on it from front to rear. It should taper so it slides away from your jawbone during recoil. Sliding into your jawbone is what creates the "Serious ouchies".

Any stock which doesn't fit properly will exacerbate any problems with recoil. It's sorta like seats in cars: They're designed for the "85% group" of people. If you're outside that range, well, too bad. That's why I keep hollering about fit and feel when selecting a rifle or shotgun.

Some stockmakers are more equal than others.

, Art

May 6, 2002, 12:02 AM	#1
Zorro Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2000 Posts: 1,072	30-06 Kicks too much? Blarney! Sorry but the 30-06 is a soft recoiling pussycat of a gun. Even .300 Winchester Magnum is just a little bit more than a 30-06. I don't think I am a mutant and my FAVORITE Varmit round is 7mm Remington Magnum! So...all you .308 shooters get over your SLOW bullets and and hit your target with WAY less drop! Last edited by Art Eatman; May 7, 2002 at 10:54 PM.

May 6, 2002, 04:42 PM	#3
Ewok_Guy Senior Member Join Date: April 11, 2001 Location: Endor Posts: 1,664	The recoil of a magnum caliber is only as hard as you think it is. __________________ "Death and honor are thought to be the same, but today I have learned that sometimes they are not." --------------------- " I like big fat men like you. When they fall they make more noise! ...and sometimes they never get up." -Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

May 6, 2002, 05:13 PM	#4
Mike Weber Senior Member Join Date: April 24, 2002 Location: Northern California Posts: 238	30-06 Recoil Fired one of these rifles the first time when I was nine years old. I've never been bothered by the recoil of any rifle that I've fired since then. The old Springfield almost put me into a barbed wire fence. Stayed on my feet though. Anyone who thinks that a 30-06 is a hard kicker should try an 1861 Enfield Artillery Musketoon .58 cal. with a heavy load or a 50-140 Sharps

May 6, 2002, 05:22 PM	#6
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	I fail to see the point of this whole thread. Felt recoil is a subjective thing, and it rarely has much to do with caliber. The stock design, action type, and rifle weight has far more to do with felt recoil than similar calibers. I rate the 30-06 and .308 as similar calibers in this context. In addition, if you want to varmint shoot with a 600 Nitro Express, have at it, you don't need our permission. __________________ I collect old pistols, got any?

May 6, 2002, 05:35 PM	#7
Marko Kloos Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2000 Location: Enfield, NH Posts: 5,521	Amen. It all depends on the launch platform. If you think .308 is tame, try the Ruger Ultra Light M77 in that caliber. It has a 20" barrel and weighs all of six pounds...it'll rattle your fillings. My most savage kicker is a Steyr Mannlicher M1895/34 chambered in 8x56R Hungarian, a cartridge in the same class as the .30-40 Krag or the .303 British. They make compact and handy lever guns in .45-70 and .444 Marlin that will teach you the meaning of recoil. (For a real experience, try a 12ga. 3 1/2" Magnum load out of a lightweight Benelli Nova without the optional recoil buffer installed.) Conversely, .30-06 out of a heavy old battle rifle like the M1917 is not terribly punishing. Simple physics...the lighter the rifle and the bigger the cartridge, the higher the perceived recoil, with bolt and lever guns kicking worse than autoloaders. In two equally configured Ruger M77s, I doubt I could tell the difference in recoil between a .308 and a .30-06, unless you load them with vastly disparate loads and bullet weights. __________________ "The right to buy weapons is the right to be free." --A.E. Van Vogt, The Weapon Shops of Isher the munchkin wrangler.

May 6, 2002, 01:55 AM	#2
Foxy Senior Member Join Date: September 14, 2001 Location: Maryland Posts: 846	Just a quick look at my military standard ammunition charts.. 30-06: 174gr@2675 - Ball M1 150gr@2500 - Ball M2 7.62x51: 150gr@2750 - US Ball M59 150gr@2750 - US AP M61 It looks like to me that the 7.62x51 is just about as speedy as .30-06. Trolling?

May 6, 2002, 05:14 PM	#5
AR-10 Senior Member Join Date: January 10, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 1,182	What does your uber ammo cost? What do you shoot, like, twenty rounds a year? My 7.62X51 runs me $.18 a round, and I shoot it all the time. Unless your rolling your own for a quarter or less, I think I will stick with the incredibly slow ammo I have. Thread Title needs work.

May 6, 2002, 06:34 PM	#8
Jamie Young Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2000 Location: SE/PA Posts: 4,834	That's what I thought until I switched from 180gr to 150gr. It feels gooder. __________________ Find out about Gun Shows and Training activities. www.TheRallyPoint.org Get your gun club involved!!

May 6, 2002, 08:12 PM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I've been fortunate enough, in part through my association with American Rifleman magazine, to have fired some real thumpers over the years... .505 Gibbs, .470 Nitro, .460 Wby., .425 Wesley Richards, etc. As John Will says, recoil is a subjective thing. I was MUCH more bothered by the recoil out of an Ithaca Model 37 firing 1 1/4 ounce slugs than I was from the .505 Gibbs, which has a fearsome reputation as a shoulder breaker. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 6, 2002, 08:37 PM	#10
_YoYo_ Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2000 Posts: 181	I agree with johnwill.. It has nothing to do with caliber. I could shoot 300 rounds out of my 870 and be sore as hell the next morning.. I could shoot the same 300 rounds through my Banelli 391 with the mercury recoil reducer and the angle porting and not even think twice... my .308 weighs about 15 pounds, i can shoot it all day without a problem... you want some kick.. take the brake off of my M99... or load up some 10ga buckshot and shoot it in my barretta both barrels same time..

May 6, 2002, 09:28 PM	#11
Shooter 973 Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2001 Location: Home town of John M. Browning, Utah Posts: 499	30-06 Kicks? Some thing that has been over looked is the fit of the rifle to the shooter. If the fit is to short or to long the recoil is different than if it is correct for the shooter. Also the cheek weld of the stock to the face has some effect on recoil as well as noise and preconceptions of the expected recoil. All of these thing can make a huge differance. __________________ The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

May 7, 2002, 11:16 AM	#12
Cornbread2 Junior member Join Date: March 21, 2002 Location: Kentucky Posts: 165	My M1a and my Garand kicks from the bench. They are very nice to shoot from prone with a sling like they are designed to be shot. The Garand is 30-06 and the M1a is .308. There is not that much difference in recoil between the two. I can shoot them both all day and they will not bother me. Two rounds from a Remington pump 30-06 hurts like hell. A .243 in the Remington pump rifle kicks much more than my Garand. My old Turk Mauser will stomp you with Yugo ammo but it is not bad with the Turk ammo. Most of the old M-44 carbines in 7.62-54 have a lot of recoil but you get used to them after a while. Last edited by Art Eatman; May 7, 2002 at 10:50 PM.

May 7, 2002, 08:04 PM	#13
Crimper-D Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2001 Location: The Bearflag Republic Posts: 579	Felt recoil can be partially removed... By using a muzzel brake. Case in point: By BSA Monarch Majestic is a 30-06 that weighs in at about 6.5lbs scoped, slung and loaded = a "Featherweight", it has a recoil I feel is somewhat less than my Ruger M77 .243 Reason? The BSA people cut a "BESA Recoil Reducer" into the muzzel end when they made the little rifle, In effect, they Magna-Ported their rifle a couple of decades before Magnaporting came on the scene. Their claim was that felt recoil was reduced by up to 50% - Having shot mine for a couple decades, I'd say they were about right The Minus side of this equation is, while this arrangement makes it lots more comfortable to shoot the light little weapon, it can make you decidedly unpopular with shooters on the line on either side of you Talk about Muzzelblast! Fun little gun to tote around all day in the heat...that couple of pounds less makes a big difference. You may only shoot the gun once on a hunt...but you have to carry the sucker all the way in and out. __________________ "It is evident that scepticism, while it makes no actual change in a man, always makes him feel better.".....H.L.Mencken

May 7, 2002, 08:41 PM	#14
Redlg155 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2001 Location: NW Florida Posts: 2,307	The more I shoot, the less I want my rifles to recoil. I generally want to get the least recoiling, most accurate, efficent weapon available to do the job at hand. To me..the 30-06 recoil is very manageable. Especially in a gas operated rifle. But if I could do the same job with a .243, I'll use it instead. Gezz....I must be getting soft. Good Shooting RED

May 7, 2002, 10:56 PM	#15
RON in PA Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 1998 Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA Posts: 673	Compare the felt recoil of 30/06 in a M1 rifle with the felt recoil in a 1903 Springfield. Weight and stock design are critical to the comfort of shooting.

May 7, 2002, 11:35 PM	#16
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Ron, The M1 is gas operated, the 1903 is bolt action. The fact that the M1 is gas operated softens the recoil SIGNIFICANTLY over the 1903. That factor alone will make a huge difference in felt recoil. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 8, 2002, 06:26 AM	#17
Khornet Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2001 Location: NH Posts: 585	Foxy, I think your data is off. My 1943 GI manual for the 03A3 specifies M2 ball at 2800 fps 150 gr bullet. __________________ The M1 does MY talking!

May 8, 2002, 07:26 AM	#18
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	As a case in point, I had an HK-91 until recently, got too good a price for it, and I sold it. While it only shoots the .308, it was an uncomfortable rifle to shoot, and the apparent recoil was greater than any of my 30-06 or .308 rifles. I believe most of it was the really poor design of the buttstock, since it wasn't a lightweight rifle. I suspect that the roller locking action may have added to the felt recoil, though I really don't know for sure. In any case, it was a wimpy .308, but that didn't stop it from kicking. __________________ I collect old pistols, got any?

May 8, 2002, 01:21 PM	#19
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	John, That's funny. A friend of mine has a 91, and I think it's a real pussycat. You sure you're not just a wimp or something? __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 8, 2002, 03:41 PM	#21
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I would have given you $50 for it. Sure, it's fun to shoot, but not that much fun. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

May 8, 2002, 08:50 PM	#22
Byron Quick Staff In Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Waynesboro, Georgia, USA Posts: 2,361	Recoil is subjective, I reckon. My HK91 has always been easy. My M1A has tried to kick me to death a couple of times...poor technique on my part, I believe. On the other hand, give me a .300 Win Mag with a deer in the sights...what recoil?

May 9, 2002, 07:26 AM	#23
johnwill Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2000 Location: PA Posts: 3,451	That really is funny, because I find my M1 Garand to have less objectionable recoil than the HK-91, and the M14 is a pussycat to me. I had a chance to shoot one of those last summer a couple of times, and it was lots of fun, hardly any recoil at all. I think the major problem with the HK is the shape of the stock, but since it's been turned into some other guns at this point, it's no longer my problem. __________________ I collect old pistols, got any?

May 11, 2002, 12:38 AM	#24
Zorro Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2000 Posts: 1,072	I belive bad Stock design is the source of LOTS of gripes about recoil. The worst is the "Monte Carlo" type Stock. I prefer a straight stock with no Remington BDL crap on it. Weatherby has made some REALLY badly designed stocks too. Straight Stock with a wide butt plate and a good recoil pad on everything. Even a .223.

May 11, 2002, 07:52 AM	#25
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Zorro, it's not the Monte Carlo comb, itself. It's the taper on it from front to rear. It should taper so it slides away from your jawbone during recoil. Sliding into your jawbone is what creates the "Serious ouchies". Any stock which doesn't fit properly will exacerbate any problems with recoil. It's sorta like seats in cars: They're designed for the "85% group" of people. If you're outside that range, well, too bad. That's why I keep hollering about fit and feel when selecting a rifle or shotgun. Some stockmakers are more equal than others. , Art