Need HELP with Lyman #45 sizing and lubricator.

mikenbarb · August 7, 2008, 04:19 PM

Im just starting to cast and size my own bullets in large volume(100-500 per day) and having a couple problems with my machine. First, The lube seems to get all over the bullets and doesnt just stay in the lube grooves

. I tried keeping the lube pressure lower and its a little better but it still seems a bit much. How much lubricant is too much and is it going to affect the powder if its on the bottom of the bullet? Im also wondering if theirs a chart for the sizing and top punch parts for bullets being done. I know the basic ones but I have 21 different sizing and lubricating dies and dont know what alot of them are for. I have molded some small batches before and just used my 310 hand tool for them and this is all new to me. If anyone has any info or instructions on the Lyman 45 machine and the sizing and lubing dies and top punches, I would much appreciate it. Thanks, Mike

crowbeaner · August 7, 2008, 04:51 PM

I have the same problem if the bullet is too undersized for the sizer die. The excess diameter difference lets the lube creep up the shank of the bullet. I keep a shop towel on the bench and wipe the base of each bullet as I remove it from the sizer; I then carefully pack them to make sure the extra lube is just on the bullet, not the base. Extra lube will cause some smoking when they are loaded, but really doesn't hurt anything. The guy that taught me how to cast said better too much than not enough; the extra lube helps stop leading and keeps the bullet from sticking in the barrel with mousefart loads.

Slamfire · August 7, 2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

First, The lube seems to get all over the bullets and doesnt just stay in the lube grooves.

In my Lyman 450, my sizing lube was not warm enough. I had to buy a under the sizer heater, from Midway. That kept the lube warm enough to easily flow into the grease grooves. And I was able to reduce the pressure, which kept the lube from crawling up to the bullet nose.

HOGGHEAD · August 7, 2008, 11:18 PM

Your problem may be a simple one. You probably just need to adust(with the bottom screw) how far you are pushing the bullet into the de before you lube. You may be pushing the bullet too far, or not far enough. If you do not push the bullet to the proer depth you will get lube all over the place. Tom.

NuJudge · August 8, 2008, 05:38 PM

Some similarities between the 45 and the 4500, and some parts in common, so:

http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanpr...Guide%2014.pdf

A scan of a 45 manual:

http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/Lyman_45.pdf

Setting the depth you push the bullet down is easy to figure out. Figuring out what to do about the O-ring at the top of the die blowing out is more difficult. Lyman now makes a beefed-up O-ring which should not blow out. There are tables on the Internet of Lyman molds, and top punches that fit each:

http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

For top punches, go to this link, then to the "moulds" link at the upper left.
http://www.castpics.net/
There is another such link I have that I cannot find.

Christopher Dingell

mikenbarb · August 8, 2008, 08:03 PM

NuJudge, Thank you, Thats what I was looking for and may help me figure this thing out. I have a few dies that dont have an o-ring(not made for one) but its not blowing by the sides. It seems to be pushing around the bullet but I tried to adjust pressure and bullet depth and it made it a little better. I cant adjust it too far up because then it wouldnt lube the upper groove. Im thinking the problem may be the lube. Im using Hodgdon ALOX and not sure how old it is. I also have IPCO graphite lube and going to try it and see what happens. Its a little harder so it may stay in the die and bullet grooves better.

NuJudge · August 9, 2008, 08:46 AM

The former gets really soft at very high temperatures, but should be fine at any normal temperature. The Latter is not intended to go through lubricators, instead being intended for dipping.

By all means try another lube, and don't push the bullets as far down in the die.

The older dies you have may not have the tapered throat that later dies have. so would just shave a bit of the bullet off, which is not good for accuracy. If the older dies are this sort, don't use them.

medbill · May 9, 2009, 12:00 PM

NuJudge,

THANK YOU for that scanned manual of the 45 Lyman. I am off to the N-SSA Nationals next week and I am scrambling to get some bullets cast with this old 45 I picked up and I couldn't figure out what part I was missing. Now I know its the top punch. A nail will do the trick in a pinch. Any ideas where I can get ones that will fit this old machine?

Thanks much,

Billy

jamaica · May 9, 2009, 02:05 PM

Depending on the bullet. Some have two grooves, but the top one is for crimping and should not have lube in it.

If you are using Lyman molds the six digits of the number on the die tell you first what the diameter is and second which top punch to use.
Some of the older sizing dies did not have O-rings. They seem to work fine for me.

You might try a different lube and see if it goes better.

I think there is a learning curve on how much pressure to put on the lube. You just gotta get a feel for it. If you are doing that many, you should have it down pat.

I too notice that I get some lube on the bottom of the bullets. I wipe the bottom of each bullet, and occasionally wipe the bottom punch off. I don't like lube on the bottom of the bullet.

hornady · May 9, 2009, 02:30 PM

I would strongly suggest that you pick up a copy of Lyman cast bullet book. Its less than $20.00 . And will walk you threw casting and lube/sizing.

David Wile · May 9, 2009, 09:45 PM

Hey Mikenbarb,

I staarted sizing and lubing bullets with a Lyman 45 and then bought a Lyman 450 when they first came out. I have always used regular Lyman and RCBS lube sticks, and have never used any type of heater pads under the Lubrisizer. Lubing bullets is a delicate practice one needs to learn to keep from getting lube migrating past the bullet while the bullet is in the sizing die. It sounds to me like your adjustment of the bullet stop is too low and allowing the bullet to go too far down into the die. You want to adjust the stop just so it allow lube to fill the top lube groove you wish to lube. Once you have it adjusted properly for depth, you then have to use the lube pump crank just right or you may still cause lube to seep up around the bullet. If the depth is adjusted correctly, usually a very small pull on the crank will fill the grooves properly. If you bring the bullet up out of the die and the top groove is not quite filled all the way, lowering the bullet into the die a second time will usually fill the groove without any further cranking.

Pistol bullets may have one or two lube grooves plus a crimp groove. Rifle bullets usually have more lube grooves with the top groove intended as a crimp groove.

Keep working at using the lubrisizer; it is a good piece of equipment and has worked for me for many years.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

TEDDY · May 10, 2009, 12:07 PM

the old dies have a groove for the set screw.if you have access to a lathe you can make your own "O"ring groove.all dies should have size stamped on top.and if you have access to lathe you can make your own top punches.
take a die and match a bullet to the holes and you will get an idea what you have to do.lube never gets old.I bought lube in 1# blocks 20 ys ago and make my own sticks.I used to make my lube out of parafin and beeswax with axel grease added.this was in 50s till I got the blocks.
I have a setup with 1" conduit pieces about 20 and pour the mix in and ser it all in freezer,then push sticks out with short length of broom stick.

ken grant · May 10, 2009, 12:29 PM

A tip for you guys having problems with lub on the base of the bullet.

Take a block of wood(1x4,2x4 etc.) Tack a piece of Burlap to it and set beside your lub/sizer.

As you remove the bullet from the lub/sizer, just swipe the base across the Burlap and the lub will be gone.

kraigwy · May 10, 2009, 03:06 PM

I don't know about the Lyman sizer die. I use a Star Lube/Sizer.

The Star dies have several little holes to allow the greese to get to the bullet. And with most bullets I get grease where I dont want it. What I do is take #9 bird shot and stuff it in the holes allowing the grease to only get to the grease hole I want to use to fill the grease groves on the bullet I'm sizing.

A quick dip in the lead pot removed the shot if I deside to lube something and need more grease groves filed ,(like going from SWCs to WC bullets.

Works pretty good, no muss, no fuss.

David Wile · May 10, 2009, 06:07 PM

Hey Teddy,

As I mentioned previously, I have always used Lyman and RCBS lube sticks, but I have considered making some lube of my own. I thought I would make my mixture and pour it into the Lubrisizer while melted. Now I read about you pouring your mix in 1 inch conduit tubes and hardening in the freezer. I think this sounds like a great idea, but I am wondering what you then do to put a hole down the middle of the lube stick? Do you center a dowel in the conduit or what? I think I am going to try your idea one of these days.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

hornady · May 11, 2009, 08:21 AM

This is kind of off subject, I found a place online WWW. Lsstuff.com white label lube. I use the special blend, but this guy sells a variety pack if you want to try different lubes before you settle on one. And its real cheap. The special blend is a little harder than Lyman orange magic, but unless you are lube/ sizing in a cold place you don’t need a heater. He also sells Alox by the gallon if you do want to make your own lube.

August 7, 2008, 04:19 PM	#1
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	Need HELP with Lyman #45 sizing and lubricator. Im just starting to cast and size my own bullets in large volume(100-500 per day) and having a couple problems with my machine. First, The lube seems to get all over the bullets and doesnt just stay in the lube grooves. I tried keeping the lube pressure lower and its a little better but it still seems a bit much. How much lubricant is too much and is it going to affect the powder if its on the bottom of the bullet? Im also wondering if theirs a chart for the sizing and top punch parts for bullets being done. I know the basic ones but I have 21 different sizing and lubricating dies and dont know what alot of them are for. I have molded some small batches before and just used my 310 hand tool for them and this is all new to me. If anyone has any info or instructions on the Lyman 45 machine and the sizing and lubing dies and top punches, I would much appreciate it. Thanks, Mike __________________ Mike B. Gun control= Being able to hit your target. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pifinnercircle

August 7, 2008, 04:51 PM	#2
crowbeaner Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2007 Location: Upstate SC Posts: 1,943	I have the same problem if the bullet is too undersized for the sizer die. The excess diameter difference lets the lube creep up the shank of the bullet. I keep a shop towel on the bench and wipe the base of each bullet as I remove it from the sizer; I then carefully pack them to make sure the extra lube is just on the bullet, not the base. Extra lube will cause some smoking when they are loaded, but really doesn't hurt anything. The guy that taught me how to cast said better too much than not enough; the extra lube helps stop leading and keeps the bullet from sticking in the barrel with mousefart loads. __________________ If you want your children to follow in your footsteps, be careful where you walk. Beware the man that only owns one gun; he probably knows how to use it. I just hope my ship comes in before my dock rots.

August 8, 2008, 05:38 PM	#5
NuJudge Member Join Date: October 17, 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 86	Lyman 45 manual Some similarities between the 45 and the 4500, and some parts in common, so: http://www.lymanproducts.com/lymanpr...Guide%2014.pdf A scan of a 45 manual: http://home.comcast.net/~imashooter2/Lyman_45.pdf Setting the depth you push the bullet down is easy to figure out. Figuring out what to do about the O-ring at the top of the die blowing out is more difficult. Lyman now makes a beefed-up O-ring which should not blow out. There are tables on the Internet of Lyman molds, and top punches that fit each: http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm For top punches, go to this link, then to the "moulds" link at the upper left. http://www.castpics.net/ There is another such link I have that I cannot find. Christopher Dingell

August 8, 2008, 08:03 PM	#6
mikenbarb Senior Member Join Date: October 10, 2007 Location: N.J. Posts: 1,111	NuJudge, Thank you, Thats what I was looking for and may help me figure this thing out. I have a few dies that dont have an o-ring(not made for one) but its not blowing by the sides. It seems to be pushing around the bullet but I tried to adjust pressure and bullet depth and it made it a little better. I cant adjust it too far up because then it wouldnt lube the upper groove. Im thinking the problem may be the lube. Im using Hodgdon ALOX and not sure how old it is. I also have IPCO graphite lube and going to try it and see what happens. Its a little harder so it may stay in the die and bullet grooves better. __________________ Mike B. Gun control= Being able to hit your target. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/pifinnercircle

August 9, 2008, 08:46 AM	#7
NuJudge Member Join Date: October 17, 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 86	50% Alox 2138F/50%Beeswax, or Lee Liquid Alox? The former gets really soft at very high temperatures, but should be fine at any normal temperature. The Latter is not intended to go through lubricators, instead being intended for dipping. By all means try another lube, and don't push the bullets as far down in the die. The older dies you have may not have the tapered throat that later dies have. so would just shave a bit of the bullet off, which is not good for accuracy. If the older dies are this sort, don't use them.

August 7, 2008, 11:18 PM	#4
HOGGHEAD Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2008 Location: Rivesville, WV Posts: 637	Too much lube?? Your problem may be a simple one. You probably just need to adust(with the bottom screw) how far you are pushing the bullet into the de before you lube. You may be pushing the bullet too far, or not far enough. If you do not push the bullet to the proer depth you will get lube all over the place. Tom.

May 9, 2009, 12:00 PM	#8
medbill Junior Member Join Date: December 12, 2004 Location: Lower Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 4	NuJudge, THANK YOU for that scanned manual of the 45 Lyman. I am off to the N-SSA Nationals next week and I am scrambling to get some bullets cast with this old 45 I picked up and I couldn't figure out what part I was missing. Now I know its the top punch. A nail will do the trick in a pinch. Any ideas where I can get ones that will fit this old machine? Thanks much, Billy

May 9, 2009, 02:05 PM	#9
jamaica Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2006 Location: Northern Utah Posts: 705	Depending on the bullet. Some have two grooves, but the top one is for crimping and should not have lube in it. If you are using Lyman molds the six digits of the number on the die tell you first what the diameter is and second which top punch to use. Some of the older sizing dies did not have O-rings. They seem to work fine for me. You might try a different lube and see if it goes better. I think there is a learning curve on how much pressure to put on the lube. You just gotta get a feel for it. If you are doing that many, you should have it down pat. I too notice that I get some lube on the bottom of the bullets. I wipe the bottom of each bullet, and occasionally wipe the bottom punch off. I don't like lube on the bottom of the bullet.

May 9, 2009, 02:30 PM	#10
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	I would strongly suggest that you pick up a copy of Lyman cast bullet book. Its less than $20.00 . And will walk you threw casting and lube/sizing.

May 9, 2009, 09:45 PM	#11
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey Mikenbarb, I staarted sizing and lubing bullets with a Lyman 45 and then bought a Lyman 450 when they first came out. I have always used regular Lyman and RCBS lube sticks, and have never used any type of heater pads under the Lubrisizer. Lubing bullets is a delicate practice one needs to learn to keep from getting lube migrating past the bullet while the bullet is in the sizing die. It sounds to me like your adjustment of the bullet stop is too low and allowing the bullet to go too far down into the die. You want to adjust the stop just so it allow lube to fill the top lube groove you wish to lube. Once you have it adjusted properly for depth, you then have to use the lube pump crank just right or you may still cause lube to seep up around the bullet. If the depth is adjusted correctly, usually a very small pull on the crank will fill the grooves properly. If you bring the bullet up out of the die and the top groove is not quite filled all the way, lowering the bullet into the die a second time will usually fill the groove without any further cranking. Pistol bullets may have one or two lube grooves plus a crimp groove. Rifle bullets usually have more lube grooves with the top groove intended as a crimp groove. Keep working at using the lubrisizer; it is a good piece of equipment and has worked for me for many years. Best wishes, Dave Wile

May 10, 2009, 12:07 PM	#12
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	dies the old dies have a groove for the set screw.if you have access to a lathe you can make your own "O"ring groove.all dies should have size stamped on top.and if you have access to lathe you can make your own top punches. take a die and match a bullet to the holes and you will get an idea what you have to do.lube never gets old.I bought lube in 1# blocks 20 ys ago and make my own sticks.I used to make my lube out of parafin and beeswax with axel grease added.this was in 50s till I got the blocks. I have a setup with 1" conduit pieces about 20 and pour the mix in and ser it all in freezer,then push sticks out with short length of broom stick.

May 10, 2009, 12:29 PM	#13
ken grant Member Join Date: December 20, 2004 Posts: 59	A tip for you guys having problems with lub on the base of the bullet. Take a block of wood(1x4,2x4 etc.) Tack a piece of Burlap to it and set beside your lub/sizer. As you remove the bullet from the lub/sizer, just swipe the base across the Burlap and the lub will be gone.

May 10, 2009, 03:06 PM	#14
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I don't know about the Lyman sizer die. I use a Star Lube/Sizer. The Star dies have several little holes to allow the greese to get to the bullet. And with most bullets I get grease where I dont want it. What I do is take #9 bird shot and stuff it in the holes allowing the grease to only get to the grease hole I want to use to fill the grease groves on the bullet I'm sizing. A quick dip in the lead pot removed the shot if I deside to lube something and need more grease groves filed ,(like going from SWCs to WC bullets. Works pretty good, no muss, no fuss. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

May 10, 2009, 06:07 PM	#15
David Wile Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2001 Location: Mechanicsburg, PA Posts: 585	Hey Teddy, As I mentioned previously, I have always used Lyman and RCBS lube sticks, but I have considered making some lube of my own. I thought I would make my mixture and pour it into the Lubrisizer while melted. Now I read about you pouring your mix in 1 inch conduit tubes and hardening in the freezer. I think this sounds like a great idea, but I am wondering what you then do to put a hole down the middle of the lube stick? Do you center a dowel in the conduit or what? I think I am going to try your idea one of these days. Best wishes, Dave Wile

May 11, 2009, 08:21 AM	#16
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	This is kind of off subject, I found a place online WWW. Lsstuff.com white label lube. I use the special blend, but this guy sells a variety pack if you want to try different lubes before you settle on one. And its real cheap. The special blend is a little harder than Lyman orange magic, but unless you are lube/ sizing in a cold place you don’t need a heater. He also sells Alox by the gallon if you do want to make your own lube.