Best all around rifle caliber advice

[Jim243]

Good points Brian. At first I was going to tell you to get a 270, but in reviewing what is needed for your REAL applications, a 243 is more than enough for you to use. Unless you were planning to go Mule Deer hunt out west or going for Monster bucks in MN. I would have added Illinois but you can only use a shotgun or muzzle loader for those. The 243 is the perfect rifle for varmint as well as deer hunting.

As to Elk, let's get real. There are things we would like to do and there are things that we will actually do. Paying 800 or 900 dollars for a Elk tag and then waiting years to get picked in a lottery for a out of state tag, is not going to happen soon.

So what are we really talking about, year round coyote hunting, once a year deer hunting, maybe 5 or 6 times a year rifle range shooting? These are what you are most probably going to do. So what rifle caliber would be good for this.

Yep, the good old 243. Available ammo, relativity less expensive ammo, a flat out barn burner in 55 grain bullets for coyotes and a killer cartage in 100, 105 or 107 grain bullets for deer, antelope, goats, pigs and yes even Elk if shot placement is right.

Good luck and happy hunting.
Jim

[Mystro]

Yup, If Coyotes and deer are your main game, then the 243 is what you want. Cant beat it. Low recoil and great bullet selection. Soon as you get into bigger black bear, elk,etc... then you might want to look at a heavier hitting caliber.
My 14 year old niece killed a nice buck at 180 yards clean with one shot from her 243. A small group of my family hunting tribe that believes the "30 caliber or nothing for deer" looked shocked.

[taylorce1]

Yes, I was mistaken on the Hornady ammunition as I didn't search by cartridge. I just opened the Superfomance page and the first two pages it showed everything temporarily discontinued. That was my mistake for not digging deeper into the webpage.

Never said JOC didn't use other bullets in the .30-06. What I said when JOC was promoting the .270 the .30-06 and 180 grain bullet were synonymous. In the last 15-20 years you've seen more lighter grain bullet loads than was possible before that. Just like when I bought my first big game rifle a .243 about the only bullet weight I could find back then was 100-105 grain bullets at BigR, Gibson's or Woolworths.

[Mystro]

Very true the he did promote the 180 in the 30-06. He was fond of the caliber /bullet combination for Grizzly bear. JOC noticing dirt fly on the opposite side of the grizzly that he was shooting from complete pass throughs and commented why anyone needs a bigger gun for grizzly bears is beyond him. His wife used it for cats in India. My only issue with lighter than 150 grain bullets in the 30-06 is out of the 4 30-06 rifles my family has, none of them shoot them that accurately. Bonded bullets have certainly upped the game of conventional calibers. I would bet JOC would never use anything heavier than a 130 grain bonded bullet for anything had he had them. The good old days are now...

On a side note:...This is a very good forum with mature and adult responses. Very few gun forums can have a level of discussion like this without childish insults and the like.... It speaks volumes about the active participants of the Firing Line forums and the level of class everyone tries to maintain.
Great discussion, this round is on me.......
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[Paul B.]

Interesting line of conversation. Personally, I've never been a real big fan of the .270, especially with 130 gr. bullets. Got my first one back in 1973 because it was cheap. An NIB commercial FN Mauser for $75. dealer couldn't sell it be cause the swas, to quote Jack O'Connor, "It was so ugly it would abort a lady crocodile." Oh but did it shot. Shot two deer with it and it's sat in the safe ever since. Picked up a couple of others, another 1951 issue FN commercial and a Ruger #1A that were also very accurate. Onr day at a gun show I picked up another one that was cheap enough that I figured I could turn it over for around $50 tp $100 later on when I got closer to hunting season. I picked up a box of Winchester 150 gr. Power Points and went to the range to check the sighting in and it turns out to be the most accurate .270 I own with groups running from .50" to .75", the latter being the last 5 shot string on a hot day with a hot barrel.
After 33 years of trying to draw an antelope tag in my home state, in 2009 I booked with an outfitter in New Mexico for a hunt. I took that new rifle in .270 with my pet 150 gr. Sierra Game King load at 2900 FPS and after a long slow stalk shot my goat at 75 yards. After several months of practice to 500 meters at my club's range I get the shot at 75 yards. Could a took him with my 30-30 and a cast bullet Didn't draw for antelope, deer or elk again this year for it's off to New Mexico for another cow elk hunt next january. I thought about the .270 and I have a good supply of 150 gr. Nosler Partitions but I've decided on my .280 Rem. I had recent eye surgery on both eyes and the doc says go easy on the recoil. My .280 weighs at least two pounds haevier than any of my .270s so I can get away with loading stiff loads in it that I wouldn't dare with the .270. Wit factory loads it feels about like my
M70 Featherweight in 7x57 shooting the 140 gr. Winchester Power Points.
If I'm lucky enough to draw for antelope and deer next year I'll probably go with the .270. Hopefully if I draw for elk I'll be able to go with my .35 Whelen.
Paul B.

[Panfisher]

Any of the ones you listed would work fine, so would several other rounds. More importantly is that you use the right bullet for the task, scope it well and pick a platform you are comfortable with and shoot it regularly. Put a proper bullet where it needs to be and let physics do the rest. Obviously hunting loads will kill any coyote around (if you don't care about the pelts), but lighter, more frangible bullets can fail miserably on game. I always adivse folks to try the fit and feel of many different rifles at least one of them will "speak" to you. It will feel better than the others, maybe for no reason you can determine but it will speak.

[Ruger480]

I wish I had the money to afford multiple rifles. But I don't. And this is where the 06 beats every other round. It is the one caliber that can do everything. Literally.

As fun as it is to talk about ballistics and cartridge capabilities, at the end of the day I have to pick one.
The reality of the situation is that even though I really want to hunt elk and someday grizzly, that may never happen.

But if the opportunity ever does present itself, I'm not buying a new rifle for a one time hunting experience. So what will I take? My 30/06, because I've been shooting it all this time and I know it will get the job done.

[Brian Pfleuger]

From that perspective, you'd be better off with a .338 Lapua or something.

.30-06 may "do everything" if your definition is very loose, but it's positively lousy for anything much smaller than whitetail deer and certainly wouldn't be considered sufficient for a great deal of African hunting.

If "do everything" is defined as deer to brown bear, yeah, it's a "do everything" gun.

Otherwise, there really is no such cartridge.

It really isn't logical to buy a gun now based on some ethereal future hunt which may well never happen and would cost probably $15,000 if it did, with the notion that you wouldn't want to spend $500 or $1000 on a new gun for your $15,000 bear hunt.

For most guys, "do everything" doesn't include anything larger than an deer, most of the remaining nothing larger than a moose. Sure a .30-06 covers the top end of that spectrum but it's a lousy varmint gun in terms of recoil, pelt damage, etc. Any number of other cartridges would kill a moose, elk and most certainly any deer alive just as dead and be far more pleasant to shoot and a much better choice at the low end of the "do everything" spectrum.

[taylorce1]

Originally Posted by Jim243

As to Elk, let's get real. There are things we would like to do and there are things that we will actually do. Paying 800 or 900 dollars for a Elk tag and then waiting years to get picked in a lottery for a out of state tag, is not going to happen soon.

Lets get real here at least about a few things on elk hunting. Elk tags don't cost $800-900, and elk can be hunted every year even for the out of state resident. Colorado a cow elk tag is $351 and bull elk tags are $586 both of which can be bought over the counter. As well as being bought over the counter there is enough elk in those areas that if one does a little homework before hand just on the computer can have a decent chance of bagging an elk and bringing it home. Are these trophy bull areas, no but the hunt and its memories can be a trophy all to there own.

Plus you never know where you might run into a trophy elk, you can find at least a 275-300 class bull in about every unit that has elk in it in Colorado. The 350+ class units do take a few years to draw but you get all the money back except a $3 application fee if unsuccessful. So it isn't like you're loosing that money you put into the draw, plus Colorado works on a point system which improves your odds in a trophy unit every year.

Is it cheap to hunt out of state, no again. However, it can be done on a reasonable budget to where you can come every other year if not every year. It all depends on how and where you want to spend your money. If a hunter was to budget $200 a month towards an elk hunt in Colorado and had some decent camping gear, and the time off to hunt, I'd bet when the season was over they'd be going home with money in their wallet to put towards the next years hunt. Especially if you got a group of 2-4 hunters together to split driving time and fuel costs.

[hodaka]

In conclusion, I guess the 30-06 is the best all round caliber.

[Mystro]

Nah, The 30-06 doesn't have as much power as the 270 at 500 yards and too much bullet drop at 500 yards. The ought six is a close up squirrel gun for shots under 200 yards. Use a 270 for shots over 200 yards and you wont see this running away...

In conclusion, I guess the 30-06 is the best all round caliber.

[Geo_Erudite]

Originally Posted by hodaka

In conclusion, I guess the 30-06 is the best all round caliber.

We never debated the merits of the 6.5x55 SE loaded in a modern action. Using Vihtavuori N560 you can get 2,800+ fps with a 140 grain bullet. We are also forgetting the beloved .264 Winchester Magnum! Which has less recoil than the venerable 30-06. It can hurl a 160 grain bullet at 2,850+ fps. Woodleigh makes the perfect bullet for the .264 Winchester Magnum, a 160 grain bullet with a BC of .509 and a SD of .328. A .264 Winchester Magnum loaded with said bullet @ 2,850 fps have enough energy (1,000 ft-lbs) to kill whitetails out to 700 yards and enough energy (1,500 ft-lbs) to kill elk out to 450 yards. This conversation has progressed past WalMart availability, and is why I mentioned it.

[Mystro]

The 264 Mag is a tough caliber to find ammo for and I dont think reloading is a option for the OP. That may eliminate it from the herd. The OP would have to chime in for that one. Generally all the calibers mentioned can be purchased most anywhere even if its a standard soft point load. Heck, last time I looked at Walmart they were carrying Federal Fusion in about all the calibers. That's a pretty good bonded bullet. They seem to have a good field report on game. My 270 will stack 4 rounds on top of each other at 100 yards with Fusion and I can get them for under $20 a box. I bought them for affordable practice not expecting much but I may use them hunting.

[Geo_Erudite]

Nosler, Norma, and Winchester all make brass for the .264 Winchester Magnum, and Retumbo would probably be the powder of choice. Load the .264 Winchester Magnum with a 140 grain Berger Hunting VLD and 63.5 grains of Retumbo you get 3,026 fps and a whitetail range of 850 yards and an elk range of 550 yards.

[4runnerman]

I did get to shoot my friends 264 mag many years ago. That was a very nice shooting rifle. If I remember right the only draw back is they are barrel burners. For hunting you would probebly never shoot it out in your life time.

[NEO Hunter]

After doing some more ballistics research and reading all the responses I have realized that 1 rifle for all the different needs may be more than I need right now(and who wants just one rifle anyway?) As one person pointed out if I ever get the money together for an elk hunt I should have the money for a bigger rifle. A 270 or bigger for coyotes or deer is more gun than needed in most cases. It will be nice having a lower recoil rifle anyway once my kids get older and move up to a center fire from rim fires. So I am going to go with something for deer size or smaller. On paper it appears the 25-06 is a better choice than a .243 and a few people pointed out some states require .25 or larger. So in the real world is the 25-06 a better choice? Thanks again for helping me through this process.

[Brian Pfleuger]

There are states with a .25 cal minimum on deer?

.25-06 is a fine round. Probably be my third or fourth choice if I were buying factory ammo.

.243Win
7mm-08
.25-06


Honestly, pick the one you like and buy it. Make your bullets go where they belong and it won't matter if you're shooting a .243Win or a .300 Win Mag.

[Geo_Erudite]

.25-06 is an excellent round. My brother in-law used to have one I really enjoyed shooting it. Light kicking, 3,000+ fps on whitetail loads, and still reasonable for varmint/predator hunting. I don't think you could go wrong, but if you noticed the underlying opinion, you couldn't go wrong with any of the cartridges mentioned. All the banter was about our personal preferences, not yours.

[chewie146]

I have a .270, but the most versatile, commonly available calber in the US is the grand old .30_06. You ned look no further.

[jimbob86]

Load the .264 Winchester Magnum with a 140 grain Berger Hunting VLD and 63.5 grains of Retumbo you get 3,026 fps and a whitetail range of 850 yards and an elk range of 550 yards.

Get real: even if you had the exact range, and could read the the wind perfectly all the way to the target, and had the trajectory, including up/downhill adjustments down cold ...... you have no way of being certain the animal won't move during the 1 second flight time of the round.

Yes, Such shots are done, and yes, there are videos of them all over the place ..... what there are not videos of are all the wounded and lost game where the shooter did not take some small variable into account.

You should take shots you are reasonably sure of making.

[Geo_Erudite]

Originally Posted by jimbob86

Get real: even if you had the exact range, and could read the the wind perfectly all the way to the target, and had the trajectory, including up/downhill adjustments down cold ...... you have no way of being certain the animal won't move during the 1 second flight time of the round.

That was a statement on the performance of that cartridge load, not a statement on the performance/ability of the shooter.

[Panfisher]

I have owned or still owned all three of the last ones mentioned. I had a Rem 7oo BDL in .25-06, great rifle stone cold killer a little more "fuss boom and kick" but all around a terriffic performer that will do quite well for white-tails, pronghorns, and mulies as well as many other critters, I even shot prairie dogs with mine, a 100 grain Ballistic tip makes quite a spectacle when it hits a prairie dog. The .243 Win, my wife has one in a Ruger 77 Compact, a super nice little package that if she ever divorces me will be the one thing she will go to court over trying to keep, shoots wonderfully kills deer stone cold dead with no problems all with a mild bark and bite. The 7mm-08 Rem. I currently have one in a Rem Mdl 7 Stainless Synthetic and it is by far my favorite rifle. The 7-08 is easy to load for, easy to shoot and performs wonderfully, nice and short, light weight, balances perfectly for me, what else is there to know. For deer sized game and under all three are solid gold.

[JD0x0]

A .264 Winchester Magnum loaded with said bullet @ 2,850 fps have enough energy (1,000 ft-lbs) to kill whitetails out to 700 yards and enough energy (1,500 ft-lbs) to kill elk out to 450 yards. This conversation has progressed past WalMart availability, and is why I mentioned it.

A .270 loaded with a 150 grain Nosler Accubond 'Long range' loaded, to a completely reasonable 2900fps has enough energy to put down a whitetail @ 880 yards (1014ft/lbs) and elk out to 560yrds (1500ft/lbs)
at least on paper. I am not condoning hunting at those ranges though.
Conditions used were sea level, zero elevation, and a temp of 65 degrees F. I used Nosler's listed G1 BC of .625

[Revoltella]

Since nobody else has mentioned it.... .257. Weatherby Magnum.

120gr Nosler Partition should take that Elk nicely.

[Kleab]

If you want to keep elk on the menu, your best option would likely be a 7mm/.280 size bullet.

7mm-08, 7x57mm Mauser, or 280 Rem would be ideal rounds for "all purpose" hunting. They can be loaded to different weights to fit any need.

If you take elk off the books, then your best option would probably be a 25 caliber bullet. The 25-06 and the .257 Bob would both treat you nicely.