Auto Sear

prowler · October 29, 2004, 12:01 AM

I have a person want to sell me an auto sear to convert M-14 semi-auto to full auto. I asked that person is this thing has been register? He said he did not know because it was in his father posession for many years he got it when his father pass away.

How can I find out it has been register? If this auto sear have not been register, can this person register and sell it legally?

454c · October 29, 2004, 12:50 AM

If I remember correctly,you can NOT legally convert a semi-auto to full auto in any way.

**4V50 Gary** · October 29, 2004, 07:46 AM

I join with 454c in that if the firearm is not already a Class III, it can't be converted into one.

BTW, the "sear" is probably nothing more that the selector switch. The selector switch needs the shaft to which it is affixed - and that requires welding onto the receiver. The connector is also required (the arm that is tripped by the operating rod). Finally, even if one could be legally converted, the M-14 under full auto is uncontrollable. It's too light weight for the caliber and is a waste of ammunition. It is not without justification that one staffer called it a "pogo stick."

shaggy · October 29, 2004, 08:12 AM

FWIW, if the sear was registered it could be transfered to you through thte estate of your friend's deceased father. Of course, in all my years of buying, selling, and playing in the class 3 world, I've never heard of a registered sear for an M14. There are registered sears for some guns like HKs and AR15's, but as far as I know, there is no such thing for an M14. That is not a 100% definitive answer though. Back in 1986 there were many people registering al sorts of things, so while there may not be any registered sears produced by a well known manufacturer (Ciener, S&H, Flemming, LaFrance, etc.) it is possible that someone registered one somewhere and there's one or two on the registry. If you want a 100% answer, you should have your friend contact the administrator/executor of his father's estate and have them make a FOIA request of the NFA Branch at BATF for any and all registrations in the deceased father's name.

Johnny Guest · October 29, 2004, 11:22 AM

prowler, there's some good advice above. While it is not totally impossible that the part in question is legal, it is HIGHLY unlikely. I don't care how low the price, it is NO BARGAIN if it is not entirely legal. Please, require proof of legal registration before you incur any legal exposure.

As always, I wish the law concerning full auto firearms was different, but we seem to be stuck with it . . . .

Best,
Johnny

prowler · October 29, 2004, 03:01 PM

I did not know much about the class 3, I just sent in $500.00 to NFA a week ago, they cashed my check. Other people know I did applying for class 3 they just came in and try to sell me serveral items that is all. I have acquired a two Uzi one is Mini an other with a wood stock, these two Uzi are pre may sample (I did check them) in an excellent price because no class 3 dealer in my town.

I may have to learn more on these stuff, internet is great I found many information by serching internet.

Thank you all for the answers.

Handy · October 29, 2004, 03:57 PM

For clarity, a semiauto can be converted to fullauto legally by use of a registered auto sear, which has the same legal status as a machinegun.

All legal machineguns/sears have a serial number and the ATF issues you a tax stamp to possess that particular item.

As a third party, you might do your friend a favor and call the ATF requesting the existance and disposition of that serial numbered item. If there is no number, or it is not in their database, then you know that it isn't legal to install.

BTW, the M14 makes a really crummy automatic rifle.

shaggy · October 29, 2004, 04:07 PM

Quote:

As a third party, you might do your friend a favor and call the ATF requesting the existance and disposition of that serial numbered item. If there is no number, or it is not in their database, then you know that it isn't legal to install.

Negative on that.

Information on NFA weapons is taxpayer privileged info (remember that transfer tax?). BATF will not release info to anyone other than the owner/taxpayer. Even a request by local law enforcement will be denied unless under a court order or subpoena. Since in this case the potential taxpayer is deceased, the representative of his estate can make a lawful FOIA request for him.

Handy · October 30, 2004, 12:05 AM

It was worth a try. Seemed better than calling the ATF to see if you're in possesion of an illegal part. I just thought they might at least confirm its existance if you were interested in buying.

prowler · October 30, 2004, 11:29 PM

I desired not to get it, it is very touchy I do not want due to too many problems, I cannot effort to pay a lawer to represent me later.

Thank you all for the excellent advised.

Barry in IN · November 3, 2004, 01:19 PM

Good move, Prowler.

I just saw this, so it's late for advice, but-
In most cases, it good to be an informed buyer. But the Class 3 world is a place where an informed seller is probably more important.
Any time the seller is unclear in any way about the particulars of a Class 3 item, I run.

October 29, 2004, 12:01 AM	#1
prowler Member Join Date: August 29, 2004 Location: Pocatello, Idaho Posts: 64	Auto Sear I have a person want to sell me an auto sear to convert M-14 semi-auto to full auto. I asked that person is this thing has been register? He said he did not know because it was in his father posession for many years he got it when his father pass away. How can I find out it has been register? If this auto sear have not been register, can this person register and sell it legally? __________________ NRA and Safari Club Life Memeber

October 29, 2004, 07:46 AM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	I join with 454c in that if the firearm is not already a Class III, it can't be converted into one. BTW, the "sear" is probably nothing more that the selector switch. The selector switch needs the shaft to which it is affixed - and that requires welding onto the receiver. The connector is also required (the arm that is tripped by the operating rod). Finally, even if one could be legally converted, the M-14 under full auto is uncontrollable. It's too light weight for the caliber and is a waste of ammunition. It is not without justification that one staffer called it a "pogo stick." __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

October 29, 2004, 11:22 AM	#5
Johnny Guest Moderator in Memoriam Join Date: August 28, 1999 Location: North Texas Posts: 4,123	Gotta be careful, here - - - prowler, there's some good advice above. While it is not totally impossible that the part in question is legal, it is HIGHLY unlikely. I don't care how low the price, it is NO BARGAIN if it is not entirely legal. Please, require proof of legal registration before you incur any legal exposure. As always, I wish the law concerning full auto firearms was different, but we seem to be stuck with it . . . . Best, Johnny

October 29, 2004, 03:01 PM	#6
prowler Member Join Date: August 29, 2004 Location: Pocatello, Idaho Posts: 64	I did not know much about the class 3, I just sent in $500.00 to NFA a week ago, they cashed my check. Other people know I did applying for class 3 they just came in and try to sell me serveral items that is all. I have acquired a two Uzi one is Mini an other with a wood stock, these two Uzi are pre may sample (I did check them) in an excellent price because no class 3 dealer in my town. I may have to learn more on these stuff, internet is great I found many information by serching internet. Thank you all for the answers. __________________ NRA and Safari Club Life Memeber Last edited by prowler; October 29, 2004 at 06:00 PM.

October 30, 2004, 11:29 PM	#10
prowler Member Join Date: August 29, 2004 Location: Pocatello, Idaho Posts: 64	I desired not to get it, it is very touchy I do not want due to too many problems, I cannot effort to pay a lawer to represent me later. Thank you all for the excellent advised. __________________ NRA and Safari Club Life Memeber

October 29, 2004, 12:50 AM	#2
454c Senior Member Join Date: September 11, 2002 Location: NW Arkansas Posts: 229	If I remember correctly,you can NOT legally convert a semi-auto to full auto in any way.

October 29, 2004, 08:12 AM	#4
shaggy Senior Member Join Date: October 9, 2004 Posts: 1,519	FWIW, if the sear was registered it could be transfered to you through thte estate of your friend's deceased father. Of course, in all my years of buying, selling, and playing in the class 3 world, I've never heard of a registered sear for an M14. There are registered sears for some guns like HKs and AR15's, but as far as I know, there is no such thing for an M14. That is not a 100% definitive answer though. Back in 1986 there were many people registering al sorts of things, so while there may not be any registered sears produced by a well known manufacturer (Ciener, S&H, Flemming, LaFrance, etc.) it is possible that someone registered one somewhere and there's one or two on the registry. If you want a 100% answer, you should have your friend contact the administrator/executor of his father's estate and have them make a FOIA request of the NFA Branch at BATF for any and all registrations in the deceased father's name.

October 29, 2004, 03:57 PM	#7
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	For clarity, a semiauto can be converted to fullauto legally by use of a registered auto sear, which has the same legal status as a machinegun. All legal machineguns/sears have a serial number and the ATF issues you a tax stamp to possess that particular item. As a third party, you might do your friend a favor and call the ATF requesting the existance and disposition of that serial numbered item. If there is no number, or it is not in their database, then you know that it isn't legal to install. BTW, the M14 makes a really crummy automatic rifle.

October 30, 2004, 12:05 AM	#9
Handy Junior member Join Date: August 31, 2001 Posts: 8,785	It was worth a try. Seemed better than calling the ATF to see if you're in possesion of an illegal part. I just thought they might at least confirm its existance if you were interested in buying.

November 3, 2004, 01:19 PM	#11
Barry in IN Member Join Date: October 14, 1999 Location: Indiana-west central Posts: 99	Good move, Prowler. I just saw this, so it's late for advice, but- In most cases, it good to be an informed buyer. But the Class 3 world is a place where an informed seller is probably more important. Any time the seller is unclear in any way about the particulars of a Class 3 item, I run.