a new problem for me

reyebe · April 11, 2008, 06:29 PM

I have been handloading for about 40 years. I have some once fired S&B 3006 cases that I am trying to load for my M1 Garand which may be sensative to high primers and slam fires. I use an RCBS dedicated priming tool. I have been unable to seat the primers deep enough. Upon examination, I discover the depth of the S&B primer pockets varries between .20 & .24 The CCI 200 primer measures .25 so it is obvious why I can't get them to seat properly. This is the first time I have attempted to reload S&B cases. Winchester cases have a primer pocket depth of .30 on average. Have any of you run into this? Is there a brand of large rifle primers that may be less than .25 deep? I have about 200 of the S&B cases, trimmed, chamfered, polished, primer pockets cleaned, ready to go and I can't get the darn primers in.
Thanks for your help. Paul in Arizona

flashhole · April 11, 2008, 06:53 PM

You could buy a primer pocket uniformer and cut them all to the same depth. EJS makes a good one.

**Unclenick** · April 11, 2008, 06:56 PM

I'll be darned. I wonder if they try to use a shorter large pistol size primer? In any event, the irregularity sounds like bad news. Primers should seat 0.003"-0.005" below flush with the back of the casehead. Time to pony up for a primer pocket depth uniforming tool and just cut the extra metal out. What a bother, with up to 0.060" to cut!

By the way, S&B sells primers. I don't know if you can get them here, but it might be interesting to look for some?

tom234 · April 12, 2008, 01:13 AM

I've seen posts in other Forums reporting primer seating problems with S&B pistol brass. It appears that S&B brass dimensions are non-standard. I'd give up on the S&B brass. Maybe you can find some good old GI brass.

the_right_reverend · April 12, 2008, 04:46 AM

Quote:

You could buy a primer pocket uniformer and cut them all to the same depth

I have been reloading for 30 years

been there tried that.... i have a fair amount of SBMC .223 brass, I uniformed the primer pockets with the rcbs tool. started to prime them..... some felt right, some felt loose, some were TIGHT. and then some felt like they had a crimp so i hit them with the deburring tool....... all that hassle after trimming to length and trimming the necks. going to swag a few and uniform again and see the results......... Maybe we are trying to make "a silk purse from a sows ear"

wogpotter · April 12, 2008, 05:20 AM

"I've seen posts in other Forums reporting primer seating problems with S&B pistol brass. It appears that S&B brass dimensions are non-standard. I'd give up on the S&B brass."

The rifle brass is the same.

Sevens · April 12, 2008, 11:38 AM

S&B brass, in my opinion, is one notch above A-Merc brand brass. In other words, if Lapua brass is a "10" and Starline brass is a "9.5" and Winchester brass is a "8" and Remington is a "7", then S&B brass is a "2" and A-Merc brass is a "0.04".

Rifle brass is horrendously important. At 50,000+ psi and the fact that the rifle action is placed directly next to your face, get rid of this cheap junk brass and give your face and your rifle the due diligence of quality components. You don't have to buy platinum and diamond studded brass at three bucks a piece, but please give yourself a fighting chance to produce quality, safe ammo and give that S&B stuff to a scrap metal dealer.

**Unclenick** · April 12, 2008, 01:17 PM

Heh, heh!. .04. I like that.

The_right_reverend,

That variability is disconcerting. Loose primer pockets are a sign of high pressure; enough pressure to expand the casehead. I would weigh those cases and see if they are significantly lighter than other commercial ones? If they are lighter than Winchester, in particular, I would pitch them.

As to the primer pockets, after depth uniforming military brass, I use a profile cutter like the one available for the Wilson case trimmer for cutting away crimps. I own a Dillon swaging tool, and while it is fine for pistol brass, on rifle brass I don't like the fact that it raises the brass around the pocket above flush with the rest of the casehead. That can lead to uneven boltface pressure and an added bending moment to barrel vibration. Rub a swaged case over a flat file to see the raised area stand out. The brass from the crimp had to go somewhere to get out of the swaging ram's way, and that is where it went. The raised area shoots back to flat, often pushing some of that brass back where it came from, and thus requiring the brass to go through the swaging process at least a second time. Meanwhile, you are shooting with uneven boltface pressure until it stops needing re-swaging. The cutter is slower an a lot more work, but the results are better.

Oh, one other thing: take a magnet to the brass to make sure it isn't some non-cartridge brass alloy hardened by iron instead of proper forming technique.

Sport45 · April 16, 2008, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reyebe

I have been handloading for about 40 years. I have some once fired S&B 3006 cases that I am trying to load for my M1 Garand which may be sensative to high primers and slam fires. I use an RCBS dedicated priming tool. I have been unable to seat the primers deep enough. Upon examination, I discover the depth of the S&B primer pockets varries between .20 & .24 The CCI 200 primer measures .25 so it is obvious why I can't get them to seat properly. This is the first time I have attempted to reload S&B cases. Winchester cases have a primer pocket depth of .30 on average. Have any of you run into this? Is there a brand of large rifle primers that may be less than .25 deep? I have about 200 of the S&B cases, trimmed, chamfered, polished, primer pockets cleaned, ready to go and I can't get the darn primers in.
Thanks for your help. Paul in Arizona

Welcome to The Firing Line! Stick around and share your thoughts.

What units are you using to come up with CCI primers being .25 tall? All I've ever seen were a little less than 1/8", but I'll have to confess I've never measured one.

Here is a link to some tech data on primer sizes. Maybe you could find one a little shorter that would work.

CPTMurdoc30 · April 16, 2008, 06:51 AM

I would chuck that S&B Brass. I have had a few problems with reloading S&B Brass. I would get some Winchester or Remington brass and call it a day.

TexasSeaRay · April 16, 2008, 08:53 AM

I'll second the notion that S&B brass is junk.

Mine goes straight to the scrap metal bucket whenever I find it.

Jeff

April 11, 2008, 06:29 PM	#1
reyebe Junior Member Join Date: April 11, 2008 Posts: 3	a new problem for me I have been handloading for about 40 years. I have some once fired S&B 3006 cases that I am trying to load for my M1 Garand which may be sensative to high primers and slam fires. I use an RCBS dedicated priming tool. I have been unable to seat the primers deep enough. Upon examination, I discover the depth of the S&B primer pockets varries between .20 & .24 The CCI 200 primer measures .25 so it is obvious why I can't get them to seat properly. This is the first time I have attempted to reload S&B cases. Winchester cases have a primer pocket depth of .30 on average. Have any of you run into this? Is there a brand of large rifle primers that may be less than .25 deep? I have about 200 of the S&B cases, trimmed, chamfered, polished, primer pockets cleaned, ready to go and I can't get the darn primers in. Thanks for your help. Paul in Arizona

April 11, 2008, 06:53 PM	#2
flashhole Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2005 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 2,000	You could buy a primer pocket uniformer and cut them all to the same depth. EJS makes a good one. __________________ ,,, stupidity comes to some people very easily. 8/22/2017 my wife in a discussion about Liberals. Are you ready for civil war?

April 11, 2008, 06:56 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	I'll be darned. I wonder if they try to use a shorter large pistol size primer? In any event, the irregularity sounds like bad news. Primers should seat 0.003"-0.005" below flush with the back of the casehead. Time to pony up for a primer pocket depth uniforming tool and just cut the extra metal out. What a bother, with up to 0.060" to cut! By the way, S&B sells primers. I don't know if you can get them here, but it might be interesting to look for some? __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; April 12, 2008 at 01:05 PM.

April 12, 2008, 01:13 AM	#4
tom234 Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2008 Location: Kansas Posts: 753	I've seen posts in other Forums reporting primer seating problems with S&B pistol brass. It appears that S&B brass dimensions are non-standard. I'd give up on the S&B brass. Maybe you can find some good old GI brass. Last edited by tom234; April 12, 2008 at 02:21 AM.

April 12, 2008, 11:38 AM	#7
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	S&B brass, in my opinion, is one notch above A-Merc brand brass. In other words, if Lapua brass is a "10" and Starline brass is a "9.5" and Winchester brass is a "8" and Remington is a "7", then S&B brass is a "2" and A-Merc brass is a "0.04". Rifle brass is horrendously important. At 50,000+ psi and the fact that the rifle action is placed directly next to your face, get rid of this cheap junk brass and give your face and your rifle the due diligence of quality components. You don't have to buy platinum and diamond studded brass at three bucks a piece, but please give yourself a fighting chance to produce quality, safe ammo and give that S&B stuff to a scrap metal dealer. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

April 12, 2008, 05:20 AM	#6
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	"I've seen posts in other Forums reporting primer seating problems with S&B pistol brass. It appears that S&B brass dimensions are non-standard. I'd give up on the S&B brass." The rifle brass is the same.

April 12, 2008, 01:17 PM	#8
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Heh, heh!. .04. I like that. The_right_reverend, That variability is disconcerting. Loose primer pockets are a sign of high pressure; enough pressure to expand the casehead. I would weigh those cases and see if they are significantly lighter than other commercial ones? If they are lighter than Winchester, in particular, I would pitch them. As to the primer pockets, after depth uniforming military brass, I use a profile cutter like the one available for the Wilson case trimmer for cutting away crimps. I own a Dillon swaging tool, and while it is fine for pistol brass, on rifle brass I don't like the fact that it raises the brass around the pocket above flush with the rest of the casehead. That can lead to uneven boltface pressure and an added bending moment to barrel vibration. Rub a swaged case over a flat file to see the raised area stand out. The brass from the crimp had to go somewhere to get out of the swaging ram's way, and that is where it went. The raised area shoots back to flat, often pushing some of that brass back where it came from, and thus requiring the brass to go through the swaging process at least a second time. Meanwhile, you are shooting with uneven boltface pressure until it stops needing re-swaging. The cutter is slower an a lot more work, but the results are better. Oh, one other thing: take a magnet to the brass to make sure it isn't some non-cartridge brass alloy hardened by iron instead of proper forming technique. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 16, 2008, 06:51 AM	#10
CPTMurdoc30 Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2008 Location: Stafford VA Posts: 969	I would chuck that S&B Brass. I have had a few problems with reloading S&B Brass. I would get some Winchester or Remington brass and call it a day. __________________ Solving Virginia's Ground Hog problems 50gr at a time.....

April 16, 2008, 08:53 AM	#11
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	I'll second the notion that S&B brass is junk. Mine goes straight to the scrap metal bucket whenever I find it. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.