I need some advice on a loader

[Funperson74]

Hey guys. I'm a big time gun enthusiast. I want to start loading my own shells. I'm not die-hard enough to want one of the hugely expensive presses I have found. I am going with a single stage. Is there a single stage that is a one-shot wonder? I have several calibers of handguns (from 9mm all the way through .500 S&W Mag). The rifles I want to reload are .308 through .300 mag. I certainly don't want to leave out the .45-70! A guy at work put me onto an RCBS. I want to be as informed as possible before I spend. Any advice is appreciated!

[dahermit]

A used RCBS Jr. like this is a good place to start: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Prec...QAAOSwT5tWIXVo

[Mozella]

I'm not going to answer your question directly, but here are some things to consider. "Hugely expensive" is not really a term applicable to most presses because while a nice progressive press might be the single most expensive component, it often doesn't represent all that large a percentage of the overall cost of reloading

Reloading can be done at many levels. Some reload at a very basic level using a scoop to measure powder and the absolute minimum amount of equipment. In that case, the press is a significant part of the investment.

But many of us reload as part of a never-ending search for accuracy. In that case, the cost of the press isn't as big a deal, relatively speaking, simply because there is so much other equipment required to produce ultra-high-quality cartridges. When you add up the cost of a good scale or two, calipers, several types of micrometers, cartridge measuring equipment, case gauges, a neck turning lathe, a variety of dies, bullet pullers, powder dispensers, seating depth measuring equipment, case cleaning equipment, etc. etc. etc., the press cost is less significant than it might first appear.

It's hard to make an informed decision when you start out because it's difficult to predict if you will hate reloading and quit right away or if you'll get bitten by the bug and decide to go whole hog. In the first instance, buying a cheap single stage press might be the correct decision, unless cheaping out is the driving factor which sours you on reloading.

In the second case it might be wise to remember the warning about "crying once". In other words, it is sometimes best to buy the good stuff first in which case you only have to buy it once.

I cringed a bit when I bought a Hornady progressive press as my first and only press because it seemed like a big chunk of money, even though it was not the most expensive choice. But now I'm glad I have it and the cost is WAY overshadowed by the cost of all the other stuff I've accumulated since I bought my press.

[steve4102]

Rifle reloading requires basically two dies, a sizing die and a seating die. With a single stage press, you set up the sizing die, size all your brass, switch to the seating die and seat all your bullets. A single stage press works just fine for this and is preferred by many.

Pistol reloading requires 3 and often times 4 dies to complete a single round. I find switching dies and loading handgun ammo on a single stage press a PIA. It will work, but there are better ways. Better like a Turret press. With a turret press all 4 dies are already in the press and a simple twist of the turret and you have switched dies.

The Lee 4 hole turret is very popular.

[Funperson74]

These are all great points! Maybe I should consider a turret. As far as my end goals? I will never be able to master the loading on a scale that would let me shoot groups like you guys do. You guys go to a level far beyond my skill set. My eyes wouldn't let me even if I tried! If I can achieve a quality comparable to what I buy off of the shelf, then I will be content. 300-400 yards is as far as I would shoot with any of my guns. That's the length of my pasture. I know that this sounds amateur-hour to you guys, and it truly is. I want to do it right, but not get so invested that it exceeds my purpose.

[AzShooter]

I vote for the turret press as well. I've had one and it was a big improvement in time over my single stage.

If time is not important get a single stage. Remember to buy a scale so you can weigh your charges or a Lee Dipper assortment so you can get close. You don't have to go expensive.

I use a Dillon 650. It costs a lot but I shoot a lot. Upward of 1000 round per month on two different guns. With the setup I have I can load almost 700 rounds an hour taking my time.

[Mauser69]

To start with, Read! You cannot intelligently get into this hobby without more info than you will get on the crapnet. I personally recommend you start with Richard Lee's Modern Reloading, then go to either the ABCs of Reloading or the Lyman Reloading manual.

Next, do read all kinds of different threads in this forum (and others). While some of it is uninformed, and much of it is ridiculously biased, you will still begin to piece together plenty of information on what people like and do not like about various products. All brands produce plenty of good product, and there are both lovers and haters of all brands. You will eventually develop your own biases too - nothing wrong with that. Just do not be swayed by the biases of others in the beginning.

In my personal opinion, I think you are very smart to start with a single stage press - no matter what you eventually get in addition, you will ALWAYS have a need for a good single stage too. I bought my RCBS Rockchucker way back in the the early 70s, and it still gets regular use. I do not suggest you get a "starter" press, nor something equivalent to a gold-plated anvil, but do go with an excellent main-stream product similar to the Rockchucker. I personally recommend either that one or a Lyman, based only on which one I could find cheaper today, but any other brand of similarly built single stage press will be just as good.

A Lee Classic Turret press is also a possibility, since it can be used like a single stage or almost instantly converted to a "semi-progressive". But I still recommend you start with a decent real single stage press.

I do recommend you buy Lee dies (ESPECIALLY for pistol calibers), no matter what brand of press. They are significantly less money than other brands, and they work every bit as good as any other dies sold. In addition to simply saving money, the Lee dies have some innovative features AND give you the OPTION to use an automatic powder measure on top of the expander die. You do not need to ever do this, but if you do not have a Lee expander you never can, so it keeps your options open for the future at zero additional cost (actually less cost).

Everything is electronic these days, but that does not make anything better (in my opinion). Especially when starting to reload, consider quality time-tested stuff. For a scale, get a good MANUAL beam scale. Again, do not try and cheap out on any entry-level stuff - just focus on good middle of the line products from any manufacturer and you won't go wrong.

And never forget the safety!!!! That is one of the main reasons I suggest you only start with a single stage press. You will develop good safe processes and experience that way, much differently that you would if you try to jump right in with a turret or progressive. And even though a turret press can be used like a single stage, you won't do it...

I wish you the best in sorting it all out - lots of info that can be confusing. So do start with the reading!

[crashdummy]

As the others have said, get one or more of the current reloading manuals and study them throughly before you start selecting your tools.
Keep in mind that you can mix brands if you want, As an example, I favor RCBS presses, Lyman powder machines, Redding dies, Lee crimp and decapping dies etc. You will find green, orange, red, blue and black boxes on my bench.
Welcome to one of the most rewarding hobbies on Earth . Iv'e been a reloader for 55 yrs, and am still learning .

[serf 'rett]

I want to do it right, but not get so invested that it exceeds my purpose.

You will get better advice if you can define your purpose. What are you interested in reloading and at what volume?

I have been well served for pistol reloading with a RCBS Rock Chucker Kit plus a few upgrades such as a Hornady bushing adapter set up which makes changing dies extremely fast. Over 23K pistol cartridges in 4 years.

Two hinge points of reloading are accuracy and volume. If you are searching for that nebulous "perfect load" for favorite rifles/pistols, then a single stage will serve you well. If you plan on pumping out thousands upon thousands of cartridges, then you need to look at turret or progressive presses.

This hobby is costly. You may find the start up cost can quickly be eclipsed by the component cost. To reduce cost, be prepared to buy components in bulk.

[lee n. field]

Hey guys. I'm a big time gun enthusiast. I want to start loading my own shells. I'm not die-hard enough to want one of the hugely expensive presses I have found. I am going with a single stage. Is there a single stage that is a one-shot wonder? I have several calibers of handguns (from 9mm all the way through .500 S&W Mag). The rifles I want to reload are .308 through .300 mag. I certainly don't want to leave out the .45-70! A guy at work put me onto an RCBS. I want to be as informed as possible before I spend. Any advice is appreciated!

Read a manual first. I like the Lyman Reloading Manual. 49th edition is the current one, I think.

RCBS Rock Chuck for single stage. (Though I read very good things about the Lee Classic Cast.) Then look into the Lee Classic Turret.

[mikld]

I can't add much to the good advise above, just share my turret experiences. I used a single stage press for prolly 15-16 years and before I picked up a Lee turret press. During the initial set-up and the first session with .38 Specials, I was having trouble with the auto-indexing feature (it turned when I didn't want it to). So, I disabled the auto-indexing and now, 15 years later, I still prefer to hand index my press. I have reloaded all the way from 9mm handgun ammo to 30-06 and 7.62x54r cartridges. No problems to speak of. I installed a ram prime on a couple turrets so priming on the press is a "walk in the park". I now have about 10-11 turrets loaded and ready to go and one turret contains bullet sizing dies (I spend more time looking for shell holders than changing calibers on the press). I have no need for a progressive nor a "semi-progressive" as I have no quota for my ammo, and don't mind spending time in my reloading room...

[Jim243]

RCBS Rockchucker for single stage or a Lee Classic Turret press. Both will meet your purposes and are relatively not expensive.


Good luck.
Jim

[BigJimP]

There are a lot of options in terms of equipment out there...and while the quality is generally good on all the big name brands ( RCBS, Hornaday, and Dillon especially )....every price point will give you some things - and not others. As you increase in price, in general, you will get more features in the press -- some additional safety features -- some things that will make the process faster and so on.

Case in point :

a. some presses auto index, some don't.../ there are pros and cons to each.
b. some companies recommend you seat and crimp in one die -- some think its best done with 2 dies.
c. some presses drop powder as part of their operation -- with some you have to drop powder as an independent step ( and dropping powder is critical ...because the published Minimums and Maximums may be very close -- and vary as little as 0.4 grain on calibers like 9mm. As a result, some presses have dies that check the powder drop - to give you an extra safety factor - to know its where you intended ( presses like the Hornaday LNL and Dillon 650 have powder check dies).

The price of the press...isn't really the issue / although we all have budgets ---- if you buy a good press ( not necessarily the most expensive ) and take care of it -- in a few years, it will probably be worth more than you paid for it. Companies like Dillon and Hornaday have taken some significant price increases most every year...so a press like a Dillon 650, that is 10 yrs old - and may have loaded 200,000 rds is still worth a lot of money today - and more than it was paid for new 10 yrs ago, even used ( if maintained properly).
----------------
But to find the right press for yourself ...talk to a lot of shooters, don't get set on price too soon --- try to understand what is out there, how it works, how accurate is the press, how consistent - how much time does it take to load 50 rds......

Then find something that meets your needs.
----------------
I shoot a lot ( all handgun ammo / but about 10 boxes a week in a variety of calibers ( 9mm, .45 acp, .357 mag mostly --- but .40, .38 spl and .44 Mag as well ) ....and while I like reloading as part of my hobby / I want consistent, high quality ammo, very good powder drops - and I want it quick -- so a Dillon 650 with a case feeder meets all my needs.

In general, most reloaded ammo / from an experienced loader -with good procedures --- will be much better ammo than you can buy / groups will tighten up 25% or more - because the tolerances I can hold on a press like a Dillon 650 are much tighter than a high volume commercial operation.

But take your time -- talk to a lot of guys locally --- maybe they'll invite you to their shops - so you can see their operation / maybe test drive some...( and have fun with the process / read a lot / learn a lot ).

Companies like Dillon have good websites - good manuals online - so you can really understand how their machines work / good books like ABC or Reloading, etc...

[Wendyj]

Mid south Shooters Supply just put a Rockchucker press on sale yesterday for $148.00. I use a Lee challenger but am thinking of buying this one to upgrade.

[Funperson74]

You guys are very helpful. Thank you all. So what I am getting from this is: take my time before buying equipment, don't set a definite price(as it will fall short), and read, read, read!!!
So, can any single stage or turret handle ANY caliber pistol or rifle that I want to load? Or are there specific ones that can handle the pistol, and certain ones for long rifle rounds? How long should the "swing" on a good press be?

[THEWELSHM]

I like Hornady but have a RCBS jr 3 press to mate. Good advice above but don't wait get started. Look up used equipment on Craigslist and get going.

My o2

Thewelshm

[condor bravo]

Yes, all single stage and turret tools will handle rifle as well as handgun calibers. The main difference between the two is that rifle cases must be lubricated while handgun cases not normally an issue, even for the .500 since all handgun sizing dies are the carbide variety.

[Lost Sheep]

10 Advices for the novice loader

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices.


Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".


So you can better evaluate my words, here is the focus of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.


When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks. I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all.


It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly.


I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack them away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.


Now, here are my Ten Advices.


Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.


Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment.


Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging.


I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better.


There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter.


Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If building your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins.


Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?


Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.


About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. My advice: Ignore the snobs.


On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.


On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.

RCBS and Dillon seem, by most reports, the best warranty service. But that is reflected in the original purchase prices. Lee has a one year warranty at half the purchase price. You pays your money and you makes your choice. If you buy the higher-end Lee stuff, use the heck out of it the first year (to week out any true manufacturing defects), and give the gear good maintennce, it will last as long as as well as RCBS.


Advice #3 While Learning, you may think about options. Progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes? Don't get fancy.




While you are learning, stay below maximum power levels (and do not go below book minimums, either). Propellants are designed to run best within a fairly narrow performance envelope. Start in the lower portion of and stay in the mid-range of that envelope. While you are at it, check several different sources for recipes. Different ballistics labs use different guns, primers and conditions and get different results. Look at the range of values in the recipes and stay in the mid-range. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.


While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform multiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.


Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.


On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.


Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.


Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. Most keep at least one.


Advice #4 Find a mentor.


There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technique BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")


I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.


After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.


Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, easse, cleanliness


Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that.

For example, consider the word "workflow". Place your components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme.

One factor often neglected is where the scale is located. Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate, eye level, in good light, etc.


Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology


Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.


Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10.


Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)


When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without overpaying for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long."


Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel.

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.


Advice #9 Safety Always Safety All Ways.


Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present or future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?


Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt.

Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly. I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" or a "3" instead of a decimal point because they are next to each other on the keypad.


Good luck.


Lost Sheep

[oldreloader]

If I could only have one press it would be the Lee Classic Turret. I had a Rockchucker and bought a LCT to load pistol with. I liked it so well I sold the Chucker and bought a Classic Cast single stage to. Nothing wrong the RCBS but the Classic Casts are more user friendly to me.

[mikld]

Wow 'sheep, you otta write a book...

One other hint for the OP; Reading The ABCs of Reloading will give you an idea of what reloading is all about plus you'll learn what equipment fits your reloading needs...

Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun.

[TimSr]

My simple answer for the OP is that if want to go single stage, get a press that is big enough right from the start. Smaller ones are great for pistol rounds, but when you get into larger caliber pistols, and especially bottleneck rifle cartridges they can become a real workout. I started with an RCBS Partner press and loaded a lot of rounds with it, broke the handle once (RCBS replaced it free) but today it is relegated to holding my powder measure, or using my ram prime die.

If you get the RCBS Rock Chucker, Lyman crusher, or Hornandy 007 or similar larger press, they will cover everything well.

[Gdawgs]

Not much to add, it looks like everyone else pretty much has it covered. I think you are wise to start out on a single stage. I don't think it's ever a good idea to start out on a fully auto progressive.

Some have mentioned turret presses, which I do like. One that I don't think has been mentioned that is worth looking into is the Lyman T-Mag. It's holds 6 dies and is manually indexed.

[cw308]

I have been reloading for over 30 years. The RCBS Rockchucker single stage press is serving me well. I may reload 25 to 50 rounds at a time. I am a bench rest shooter, load only for accuracy. The Ruckchucker Press you can't go wrong with.

[Xfire68]

Allot of good advice above. My vote for a great starter press is always the same. Lee Classic Turret. It works fantastic, allows for descent speed once you are loading with more confidence and won't break the bank.

I have some nicer presses such as the Hornady LNL ammo plant with case feeder and the Dillon 1050 Super with Forcht autodrive and "if" could only have one press factoring in all of the +'s and -'s I know of with the other presses including cost I would pick the LCT.

[Shimpy]

"I have been reloading for over 30 years. The RCBS Rockchucker single stage press is serving me well. I may reload 25 to 50 rounds at a time. I am a bench rest shooter, load only for accuracy. The Ruckchucker Press you can't go wrong with."


Rockchucker is my choice also. I had 2, one for reloading pistol and rifle and another reworked by Ferris Pendel to swage benchrest bullets in his dies. The rockchucker is the choice because there is no stretch or give due to its construction so the end result is more consistant ammo. BR ammo though was loaded with hand dies.