Lube

[Clayton Hufford]

Scott, actually what happened was George changed FP-10 in order to lower the temp range to meet mil-specs, but the change influenced the entire range of characteristics in a positive way. I personally can tell a huge difference in the cleaning ability, and in the ease of application - it seems to coat surfaces better and its flow characteristics are much improved as well.

When comparing the old formula and the new side by side, you can REALLY tell the difference .

Best regards,
Clay

[S.F.S]

Clay,
That is what he said over on the 1911 Forum when I asked him about it.
On the other hand I have never compared the two formulas side by side so I am unable to comment on it myself, so I will take your word for it.

When cleaning the barrel and cylinders on a revolver I still use either Hoppe's or Shooters Choice then lubricate and wipe everything down afterwards.

Like I said on another post I have used it and was pleased with it but still seem to use G96 the most over all the other lubes I have.
I know its not the best but Im happy with it. And most of all its used regularly... I always clean my guns after each range trip. It works just about as good as B.F. CLP for light cleaning, I have not tried FP-10 for cleaning yet.
I did run some through the barrel of my .357 after cleaning with Hoppe's and let it sit for about an hour and the patch did not come out dirty.

P.S. I definatly favor G96 over B.F. CLP for trigger assemblies.
B.F. on the other hand is probably a better lubricant though.
If you wouldn't mind post the test results that you did one other time with how different lubes performed in it.
Scott

[Clayton Hufford]

No problem, Scott.

I only have two tests in which G-96 was mentioned. One is the RCMP trials done several years ago, in which FP-10, G-96, and TW-25B were the winners. The other is a friction wear and abrasion test performed on a F-1599-1A lubricity tester by the Falex Corp.

33 products were tested altogether, with G-96 coming in at #24, Break-Free CLP at #11, and FP-10 at #1. Obviously this is just one test, so don't take the results too seriously. I prefer to have the results from at least three different ASTM tests with which to do comparisons, but this is very difficult with products like G-96 as they refuse to provide any test data. I'm just not willing to lay down my cash to do anymore tests, as I think I have found the best available. Testing lubes is very, very expensive.

In every test that FP-10 is a part of, you can bet that it will come out on top, at least in every one that I've seen it has.

I think Southwest Research did some tests for George, the results of which are on his website.

www.fp10.com

http://www.swri.org/

Regards,
Clay

[Firepower]

Sorry for the delay, but we were heavily involved in the Area 8 USPSA Tri-State Championships this weekend, and have been burning (and shooting) the candle at ALL ends

I have finished, compiled, documented, and posted the experiment I stated I would do in my previous post:

I'll take some Militec-1, coat a piece of chrome moly steel test panel, after following your scrub-a-dub directions, and bake it as you say. Then, after drying, give it the old water vapor test and see what happens. Heck, I'll even take pictures and put them on the web for everyone to see, just like I did for the "rusty plate test" with BreakFree.

Here it is:

http://www.fp10.com/miltestprotect.htm

This was done to in the interest of YOU, the SHOOTERS, to PROVE that what I said about chlorinated hydrocarbons without proper inhibiting techniqes, can and will produce corrosion under the conditions of moisture and humidity.

Try it yourself...the truth is in the "doing" and "seeing". All the BS and marketing hype can't cover it up when the folks are willing to put it to the test.

Remeber the Rusty nail test with Breakfree and FP-10?
It was even MORE rigorous than this, as we used a 20% salt-water solution on the plates in that one. This one, was just Tap Water.
The link to the BF/FP-10 test:

http://www.fp10.com/FP-10testing/

Best regards,
George

[PKAY]

OK, George! I give, I give, I give! I just ordered a 16 oz. bottle of your product and am looking forward to joining Ted Nugent in slathering up my guns with it. Will let you know how it compares to my silly home brew of MMO and generic STP. Best to you, and here's to the continued success of your company.

[Nannuk]

Am I the only one that uses graphite in place of grease? I never saw it mentioned here. Am I wrong to use powdered graphite? I use it for all of the trigger/sear/saftey applications as well as on my scope screws/stock screws.

[Firepower]

Nannuk,

Graphite is a fairly good dry lubricant (only if you are using it dry) but it has very little extreme pressure characteristics and a low load carrying capacity to fight wear under more severe conditions of shocking and properties of ignition.

My biggest question is, what are you using to protect those parts and slide/frame from corrosion? Graphite certainly will not do it, and if you mix graphite with oil, you can end up actually inducing wear into your firearm's moving parts. Graphite can also affect the oxidation rate of oils and greases when mixed with them.

From NASA Technical Memorandum 104525, Tribology Needs For Future Space and Aeronautical Systems, Robt. L. Fusaro, Lewis Research Center, Cleveland OH, Dec. 1991 - Page 9, Solid Lubricant Factors.

“Most solid lubricant films do not function well in a liquid environment, whether it be water or oil. Even the miniscule amount of oil deposited by an inquiring finger can drastically affect tribological properties and reduce endurance life. A small hard particle can imbed itself in a film and severely abrade the counter-face.”

Food for thought.

Next question...are you alone in the Universe?
(maybe ) {just kidding }

Best regards,
George

[Clayton Hufford]

I experienced excessive wear when testing the various dry lubes on the market. They're better than nothing, but just barely, IMHO.

Personally I think I'd rather clean and lube my gun more frequently with FP-10 CLP than use a dry lube, when in a desert environment.

As George mentioned, protection is a big issue. In my book it is number two on the gun care list, right below gun safety. I think that corrosion is far more of a concern than wear, at least under most conditions. You'll face rust, but you probably won't wear out a gun from actual use.

Just my thoughts,
Clay

[Nannuk]

I dunno, I was ALWAYS told to not use lube/oil on the trigger mechanism. I keep the outside of my barrel oiled with 3-in-1. Maybe it is jst my randfathers advise that is wrong, however I just inherited a 100+yr old .410. Seems like if it has worked for 100 years it can't be that wrong.

[Firepower]

Well, Nannuck,

We've provided the info, so what can I say.

My advice ... "Watch out where the Huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow..."

Just joking, of course...but that .410 probably doesn't get shot that much or spend any time in the weather, whereas you can get by with almost anything. However, if you shoot on a regular or competative basis or hunt frequently in alot of varying weather, that graphite and 3-in-1 will be hard-pressed to "cut it", without encountering the "nasties" of corrosion and wear. ( Of course, cleaning is another issue).

But as always, the choice is yours.

Best regards,
George

[Celt]

I just recieved a generous sample of FP-10 today for my testing.
Testing will begin in a few days with the thorough cleaning of the CAR, then 150 rounds fired and off to a "camping" trip" for the weekend to use it in the weather and such with out cleaning.

There was a nice surprize of another gun related product in the package. I was not aware that they made that. I may or may not get to fully test this, so I will keep it under my hat for now, but you class 3 owners out there may be very interested in it. You police CQCB operators may be as well. Looks good so far.

Go rahb maith agat Seoirse.

Celt

[Ben Swenson]

I continue to be further impressed with both the FP-10 product and the willingness of its sales force to address customer (and even non-customer) concerns ... even to the point of carrying out testing at their own expense to demonstrate capabilities.

Congrats Firepower. And good product.

By the by, I've determined that the problem I was having with my .45 was due to a worn recoil spring and had absolutely nothing to do with any lubricant or cleaning process used. Cheers.

[Nannuk]

Well, I fired off e-mails to both you and to Mil-tec about a week ago (IIRC). Have recieved a confirmation e-mail from mil-tec and a follow-up saying my sample had been sent, but no such from you. Not complaining, just wondering if I need to send you my info again. Thanks for the imput and am looking forward to broadening my horizon's. Lemme know if I need to supply info again.

Nannuk (Ben)

Sic Semper Tyrannis

[Firepower]

Thanks Cordex...Much appreciated.

And Nannuk...are you "Ben" in Dallas (withouit giving out private info)?
If so, it went out yesterday.
Let me know...
Best regards,
George

[Firepower]

Dia dhuit mo chara !

Ta Faílte rut.

Tá an lá go maith...Nil, tá sé go hálainn anois.

Is maith sin, buíochas le Dia.

Slán go foíll

Seoirse

[PKAY]

Hey Firepower, check your keyboard. I think sompm happened to it! FP-10 is not good for typing fingers! It causes slurring of words and may get you a "TUI."

[Firepower]

A TUI !!! OMG....ROFLMAO..... PKAY

Translation from Gaeilge:

"God to you, my friend.
You are welcome.
It's a good day,...No, It's beautiful.
That's good, thank God.
Bye for now,
George"

Just a wee bit of "Irish blarney" between the Celt and meself.
One more Guinness and a Tullamore Dew will surely get me that TUI!

Sláinte! (Cheers)
George

[Firepower]

BTW, things got pretty ugly today at the Sig Forum as Bradley Giordanni of Militec finally chimed in and attempted to humiliate me by name calling (literally) due to the fact that one of the fellows misunderstood my post and thought I was "Bashing" at first. He emailed Brad and told him that this was the case, and he came in (via a third party) with "gunz-a-blazin". Aw, heck...if you're interested, check it out right 'chere:
http://sigforum.atinfopop.com/4/Open...342#6614083342

Later...I think I'm going to get some sleep, finally.
Best,
George

[Celt]

Seoirse,
Ta se fala dha faisneis Gaeilge anseo.
Did I say that right?
I am just learning Gaelige still, so I will not be able to keep up LOL.

Ta tart orm, now that you talked about drinking some uisce beatha. I like The Tullamore dew. I also like Jamison's real well.

Celt

[tonyz]

I also sent off e-mails to both you and to Mil-tec, about 1 1/2 weeks ago to Mil-Tec, and last week to you. Have not recieved a confirmation e-mail from mil-tec or you. Also have not recieved any sampes.

I would Like to try FP-10


Tony Z

[Firepower]

Hey Tony

I posted this about 3-4 weeks ago:

wait till the championship matches are over...
We are temporarily suspending our Free FP-10 offer for a short time but will repost it when it becomes available again, soon.
This offer has ended as of 3:00 PM EST, Sunday, September 1st, 20029
I have to devote the remaining time to the 3 major matches that we are sponsoring and I am shooting in the next 3 weeks.
http://www.fp10.com/sponsoredmatches.htm
Thank you all for your great participation and we'll be back to make it available again, very soon (probably at the end of this month).

Best regards,
George

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...5&pagenumber=2

You may have sent it when the emails were being cached until then.

We're getting to them now. ( I found yours and it'll go out in a day or 2)

Thanks...Best,
George

[4 Eyed Six Shooter]

I talking with a Glock tech the other day about the best lube to use on the Sheriffs Glocks that I was servicing. He said they are using a 50/50 mixture of Breakfree and Militec-1. He said it works better than anything else they have tried.
I explained to him that the area that I live in can go from 95 degrees to -50 degrees depending on the time of the year. I was looking for a lube that would not jam up a firearm in the cold weather and would still stay on the rails when it was hot. He said this was it.

[Firepower]

Well, that tells me he hasn't tried FP-10.

Everybody thinks they're a lube expert.

I think by the time I've dismantled and reassembled my Glock 22, 250 times (pick a number, any number), I'll just call myself a "Glock Technician", sit on the right hand of "Glock, the Father", and pontificate all day long on my infinite extrapolations of "Glock-Talk".

Sheesh, someone make the coffee....

[Romulus]

George, if I could digress from the "product" subject and ask a theoretical question...meaning this is not specifically about FP-10.

I've been trying to picture firearms operation and lubrication regimes. Forgive by the way in advance my poor articulation of the subject if it isn't clear...

When you fire your first shot in a 1911, assuming it's been properly lubed prior to the shooting session, it seems to me (a fruit of my mental picture) that at least initially the slide moving down the frame ways would somehow induce something like the famous "hydrodynamic wedge", like a squeegee on a window cleaning job. It follows then that the lubricating regime is a hydrodynamic regime, which at some point ceases, due to lubricant being "squeezed" away, and gives way to a boundary regime.

Is it then incumbent upon the shooter to replenish the lubricant mid-session to keep the hydrodynamic regime going - based on the assumption that HD is preferable to boundary as the metal surfaces are kept from actual contact - and if yes, what would the interval be between firings before you encounter pure boundary conditions (in a 1911, that is...)

Please note that I remember your admonishment to me that my 1911 will always operate under boundary conditions - I believe that is true insofar as the HD regime may be displaced after the first few shots, which would make it statistically insignificant in the context of an afternoon shooting session. Does it pay to try and maintain HD conditions if these actually occur (not just a fruit of overactive imagination?)

PS: not just lube experts, here in Wis everybody's an architect...

[Romulus]

PPS:

If I'm not full of water, does my previous post speak to the advantages of a looser frame/slide fit (more room for pooled lubricant and thus HD regimes) than a tight fit (Lubricant squeezed out right away and thus virtually immediate boundary regimes)?

BTW I'm not a professional PITA, just a curious guy about lubes...it started about twelve years ago with my Fiat Spyder and the absolute necessity to find a lubricant that would keep the little hummer going...