Best deer caliber for 10yr old son

[bamaranger]

Here's something different. I'll suggest a 7.62x39mm bolt rifle. About 30-30 power, but no hammer or tube magazine to mess with. Easily scoped, usually.

The .243 will have more reach, but for a kid, the x39mm has all the range they can use at a young age.

[idek]

Here's something different. I'll suggest a 7.62x39mm bolt rifle.

I forgot about those. If I wasn't left-handed, I'd likely own a CZ 527 in that cartridge.

[tahunua001]

I started out with a 243 and developed a terrible flinch that took years to unlearn. I usually recommend something in an intermediate cartridge for a first time hunter, like 223, 7.62x39mm, or 6.5 grendel. less recoil, equals more confidence and concentration.

[CarJunkieLS1]

OP you have been training your son for a year with an AR-15 patterned rifle. It is safe to say that he shoots it well, is familiar with it and also is accurate for him. Your answer is very simple take the AR-15 lower and slap a 6.5 Grendel upper on top of it. It has plenty of "killing" power out to the ranges that a 10 year old needs to shoot and the recoil will likely be so similar to the .223 ammo he has been shooting he may not even know the difference.

Grab some 123gr SST Hornady factory ammo and have him put it behind the shoulder on a broadside shot and you'll be sharpening your knife.

[globemaster3]

I have walked in your shoes, bringing kids up to shoot and balancing their experience and recoil sensitivity with the guns I have available for them.

Let me put out there that every kid is different. You CANNOT expect that because you could or could not handle recoil at their age that your kids will do the same. I'm not saying you need to coddle them, but don't expect a cookie cutter experience. Each can learn differently and experience recoil differently.

In anticipation of my oldest one joining me in the deer and hog woods, I bought her a Weatherby Vanguard Youth in .243, using the same logic of many of the posters have put here. She shot her first hog and deer with that rifle.

Because of that, it came as a huge shock to me one day when I went to pack up the range gear, ammo, and rifles for what should have been some fun father-daughter shooting time that she said she didn't want to go and didn't really like shooting... Dejectedly, I sat down with her and had a long talk about what made it so unenjoyable. It was the rifle. To her, the recoil was uncomfortable. To me, it was a joy to shoot!

Realizing I needed to break my paradigm of a "kids deer/hog rifle", I came to TFL and posted my experience to gain some perspective and seek help in solving the dilemma. In the end, an the AR platform made perfect sense! An adjustable stock allows it to grow with the kid. Keeping it in an AR-15 vs the AR-10 sized rifle (surely Tim77W will be along shortly) kept the weight down. The action with that buffer and spring was the logical choice for recoil reduction.

Another huge plus was the modularity. Practice is important. Having the ability to shoot cheap plinking ammo is a bonus. However, I am not a fan of .223/5.56 for deer, and with my job, moving is always on the horizon and not all states allow you to use it. So, the ability to swap uppers became a real bonus. I chose 6.8 SPC, but there are others that are capable of providing more knockdown than .223/5.56.

Fast forward to today and my 19 year old LOVES her AR. She's taken 5 deer with it, including a 9 point that is going on the wall. She enjoys going to the range to shoot with dad as well as show up the boys.

Another bonus to the parents of today are the plethora of managed or reduced recoil offerings in so many calibers. Those did not exist when I went through this.

So as you proceed down this path, consider the needs of your 10 year old. You know him more than any of us.

[bamaranger]

My aversion to the lever carbine 30-30 (or any other cal for that matter) for beginners is based on watching bamaboy and bamawife, as well as others, struggle with the external hammer and the relatively complicated manual of arms for the lever rifle. This includes the newer "lawyered up" lever rifles with manual safety's as well.

By comparison, a bolt rifle is pretty simple.

[samsmix]

For me it depends where you live, how big the deer are there, and will he ever get a shot at an elk.

I love the .257 Roberts for the flat shooting classic it is, but this new 6.5 Creedmore has a LOT going for it.

[lockedcj7]

My 12 y.o. son is extremely recoil shy but likes shooting an AR in 5.56. I suggested that he might want to use a 6.8 spc upper for deer and he tried shooting it. Even with a recoil pad, he still thinks the recoil is too much (???). I also bought an upper in .300 B.O. For this deer season, I'm going to have him shoot both the .300 and the 6.8 and see which one he likes better. He can practice with the 5.56 and then switch to one of the other uppers for hunting. With the proper ammo, either would be good for deer at close range. FWIW - 5.56/.223 is not legal for deer is SC.

On a completely different tack, when he was 10, he expressed an interest in muzzleloaders. He shot .50 cal patched round balls over 30 grains of P Pyrodex and loved it. If I can work him up to a load heavy enough for deer then we may be onto something.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

243 is a Great choice. But. Those too who promote buying of a 243. So many of them then say: "shoot the heaviest bullet weight you can find to harvest deer size animals with."
That to me doesn't make any sense. 243 is quite capable of delivering better than 3/4 ton of energy at 100 yards if_ yes if the correct bullet is used.
I have always promoted the using of 75-80 grain 6mm bullets for deer size game._ 75 grain bullet will deliver a pay load of 1540 ft.-lbs. of energy at 100 yards at a swift speed of 3040 fps.

In comparison a 100 grain 6mm bullet will deliver a anemic pay load 1344 ft.-lbs. of energy at 100 yards at a so-so speed of 2460-fps.__ Hopefully you can see the disparity between the two bullets weights.

And a plus to those 243 shooters who are sensitive to recoil. The using of a lighter weight bullets reduces felt recoil. But it's you're call and your dollars here. If your wanting to have your Son shoot heavier weight bullets? Consider a 260 Remington for that purpose.

[bamaranger]

I don't want to hijack the thread, but Sureshot I wonder about your velocity and energy figures. Lots of variables of course, rifle to rifle, but checking some manuals, I don't see a .243/6mm/100 starting at 2900- 3000 fps, +/-. (full length barrel, no carbine) dropping to 2400 fps till 300 yds. Same sources show a 100 gr pill yielding 1600-1700 ft/lbs at 100 yds.

But I agree that the lighter 75-85 gr pills will indeed drop a whitetail cleanly. I've considered using the lighter 85 gr Nosler Partition from my pair of .243 rifles myself.

[Sure Shot Mc Gee]

Looking at Hornadys Ballistic page. >in the day light< It appears I need a new pair of glasses or it was too dark in here last evening to read it properly. (Thanks in part to those Republican candidates televised interview.)

B/Ranger:
Hornady cartridge ballistic's chart is where I read both 243s_75 & 100 gr. muzzle speed at 100 yards. From there I used those same figures to comment (stats)

Those same 100 yard stat charts I'm reading today state:

100 grain Spire. Its speed at 100 yards is 2729-fps. having 1653-ft.lbs of energy.

75 gr HP. Its speed at 100 yards is 3254-fps having 1764 ft.lbs of energy.

Which is a slightly more (fps & ft.lbs) in both columns for the 75 gr. & 100 gr.

Even so, that still leaves me with the impression the 100 grain is far less efficient on deer size game than the 75 gr. And as we both know. Using those smaller calibers its all about that 3200 fps speed barrier that makes the difference between harvesting something Big on the spot or the later > perhaps trying to retrieve it throughout the day or night or worse the following day.

[chimo]

.243 is an excellent choice

[buck460XVR]

My siblings and I grew up using Winnie levers in 30-30 and .32 special. IMHO, one of the most dangerous firearms to start a young kid out on. I also am not fond of starting new shooters/hunters out with high capacity auto-loaders. They need to make their firsts shots count and in the excitement of the hunt, it's easy to continue firing at a animal that is not presenting a high percentage shot, when all one has to do is pull the trigger again and again. Not only is it a recipe for wounding an animal, but it also presents dangers downrange behind the target. For a first deer rifle for a new and very young shooter, I don't think one can do better than a Ruger 77/44. Accurate, easy to operate bolt action with a nice safety system. A 4 round detachable mag for easy loading and unloading. Easy mounting of optics for those that wish to use them. It's also lightweight and compact. While having reduced range due to being a handgun caliber,(which makes it safer downrange than higher powered rifle calibers) it is still a very viable 150 yard deer rifle, with low recoil and very good terminal ballistics. Ammo is lower priced than rifle calibers so the youth can shoot more, and get more familiar with the firearm, especially for those that don't reload. It also will serve them as a viable deer rifle when they get older.

I help teach hunter safety to new shooters/hunters. One thing I see often is dad's buying their son/daughter the gun they would like to have, many times buying a gun that the child needs to "grow into". This can make those seasons before the child "grows into" the firearm awkward and unsafe. They have small hands that get cold easily, thus they wear gloves and mittens. They have short arms that cannot always hold up a 9lb firearm for the period of time it takes to make the shot. They also tend to flinch when having experienced heavy recoil when previously shooting a particular firearm. Kids can always trade up if need be. Their first hunts should be comfortable and safe and their first firearms should reflect this.

[idek]

For a first deer rifle for a new and very young shooter, I don't think one can do better than a Ruger 77/44...
...lightweight and compact ...low recoil... safer downrange than higher powered rifle calibers...

Have you actually seen young shooters use this gun, or is this theoretical? A typical .44 magnum is on par with a .243 or .30-30 in recoil in guns of equal weight. Shoot a .44 magnum out of a 5.2 lb (according to Ruger's website) carbine, and the recoil starts approaching the level of recoil a .270/.308 shot from an 8 lb. rig. Scope weight would tame recoil on the Ruger some, but you're still around the recoil level of a 7mm-08 from a full-size gun.

The CZ 527 in 7.62x39 is about the same size and is arguably a better gun for about the same price as the 77/44. Cheaper practice ammo, about 35% less recoil, and retains more energy at 100 yards (while still posing less downrange risk than a .223 or .243).

[HiBC]

I think the CZ carbine would be a fine rifle.
And depending on the deer,7.63x39,or possibly .223 would be OK.
Remember "deer" might range in size quite a bit.Some places 90 lb deer are typical,some places 150 or 175 lb,and in some places a big one can go over 250.
IMO,the young hunter needs to begin his/her experience with a quick,clean kill.

That first means good shooting.A cringe or flinch will cause poor shot placement.
And second,it means an adequate cartridge with a properly designed bullet.

The young hunter must be proficient with an adequate cartridge.

My bias is toward bolt rifles.

But if our young hunter is confident and proficient with an AR-15 type rifle,it may be a very good choice.Wyosmith said it well.Railtop,and adj stock.They can grow with it.Scope postion can be optimized for the hunter.
Cartridges like 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC would be great.I won't comment ob 300 BO simply because I don't know enough about it.If it generates enough velocity to make bullets expand,it should be fine.
An upper could be the answer.
Someone commented on "high cap rifles"..Are we talking opinions about what the rifle looks like,or magazine capacity? Most states require a max magazine capacity of 5 rounds for hunting.So my Rem Model 81 (which I assume is OK)
is exactly the same as a "high cap" AR.

[CarJunkieLS1]

A .243 will push a 100gr bullet much faster than 2400fps... my wife's savage 22" barrel in .243 shoots Winchester 100gr power point at a touch over 2900fps. And it shoots a reloaded 95gr at 2990 and it's 1.5gr under max charge of Supreme 780. Your velocity and energy #'s are way off.

A 6.5G shoots a .264 123gr pill at 2400-2500 w/ less than 30gr of powder and you think a .243 with over 40gr will only shoot a .243 100gr at that same speed??? The .243 operates at higher pressure also

[buck460XVR]

Originally posted by idek:

Have you actually seen young shooters use this gun, or is this theoretical?

Does my 9 yr old granddaughter count?

How about her 7 yr old sister?

[Keg]

Best deer caliber for 10yr old son

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I'm looking at getting my son his first deer rifle. He's been training on a .22 bolt action Savage and my AR15 for the last year.

I've been thinking about starting him with a .243, but not sure. Any suggestions or thoughts?

If he's been shooting an AR for the past year..I'd get him an AR in 300 blackout....

[idek]

Does my 9 yr old granddaughter count?
How about her 7 yr old sister?

That's why I asked...

Not saying it's a bad choice, but if a youngster is really going to be shooting out to 150 yards, I feel like they can do it more effectively with other choices while dealing with less recoil.

[Keg]

Not saying it's a bad choice, but if a youngster is really going to be shooting out to 150 yards, I feel like they can do it more effectively with other choices while dealing with less recoil.

Where did OP say the 10 yr old was gonna be shooting 150 yrds?

[Paul B.]

As I've said before, I'm no big fan of the .243 on deer But the comment about a 75 gr. Hornady outdoing a 100 gr. Hornady, baloney! I guess if you keep both bullets doing 2400 FPS you could say that the varmint bullet is better. But who does that?
Years back I took several kids out to hunt their first deer. They used my .243 and all go their deer. I also had a tag and would back them up if necessary. Northern Nevada deer get big and results from the .243 never really made me happy. The best I can say is the deer died.
Fast forward to a couple of years ago. The father of one of my students in Hunter Ed class had put his 10 Y.O. son and himself in for bull elk tags and they drew. Dad had a Browning BAR in .338 Win. Mag. but what to get junior? My lightweight .308 was too much even with a reduced load. Other options I had on hand were not any better. We tried my M70 FWT in 7x57 with a lighter handled with the 120 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip and that was what the kid liked. That bullet has a decent reputation due to the fact it has a very tough jacket for that light a bullet. I wasn't gonna whack off several inches of the stock on a favored rifle so I suggested finding a Remington M7 youth model in 7-08 which dad did. He also got a set of loading dies and I ran up a series of loads using the the Nosler bullet and the 120 gr. Barnes TSX. Also did a couple of loads with the 140 gr. Nosler Partition loads to 7x57 levels. A couple of days prior to the hunt, dad came by and we sighted the gun in with the 140 gr. bullets. Dad called a few days after the hunt and junior got his elk, one shot right behind the shoulder. When dad asked him about the kick, he said, "What kick?"
Load that 120 gr. Ballistic Tip to about 2450/2500 FPS in a Youth Model 7-08 and that'll put any deer down, little (?) whitetail or big old Mule Deer buck.
Paul B.

[idek]

Where did OP say the 10 yr old was gonna be shooting 150 yrds?

The OP didn't. The post recommending the 77/44 called it a "very viable 150 yard deer rifle," which I don't disagree with.

But since recoil is often a concern for young shooters, my main point was that full power 44 magnums out of a 5-6 lb. gun is still going to have a decent kick. And if a kid isn't going to shoot beyond 100 yards, why deal with recoil that's on par with a 400 yard deer rifle? I might like to use it, but that doesn't mean I'd hand it to a small kid. I would contend that for short to mid-range hunting, a 7.62x39 or 300BO in a bolt gun will work as well or better with less recoil.

[FairWarning]

.30-30.

In addition to being a proven caliber, the range limitation is a good thing for a young hunter (should not be thinking about taking 300 yd shots!!).

[samsmix]

To the OP,

How big is the lad, and how far away can he comfortably shoot a deer? Will he ever get a shot at an elk with the same rifle?

I love the .257 Roberts, here's why:
It shoots soft, hits hard, and comes in two power (recoil) levels. It doesn't look any better than a .243 on paper, but seems to speak with more authority in the field. The old 117gr RN at 2500fps kicks very little, and kills deer clean as can be out to 200 or so yards (or farther, but being a RN it is falling off fast) 100gr Spitzer bullets are good on deer and antelope to 400yards or more. Stepping up to 120gr Partitions, I wouldn't be eskeerd of popping an elk with one, though it is minimal for the task. They also penetrate farther on quartering shots on big mulies.

Anything that can be said of the Roberts can be said of the 6.5 Swede, and 6.5 Creedmoor, I just have a thing for the 'Bob.

[jfruser]

Had success with both 10YO son (75lbs & 4' 10") and forever-29YO wife (less than 100lbs, 5' 0").

They both took to the Ruger American Compact Rifle in .243Win. About 6lbs. 12" or 12.5" LOP. Slapped on a Leupold VXI 2-7x scope with low leupold rings and a sling & swivels. Great shooting, inexpensive package.

Here is the thing: Spring for the PAST Super Magnum Recoil Shield. Even hte .243Win can be nasty from the bench & sand bags for smaller folk--especially if hte bench is designed for bigger folks. Made the world of difference. Wife was in pain the first trip and could not zero. Second trip with the PAST recoil shield, zeroed in 2 rounds. I had her shoot a few more to be sure, but two rounds was all she needed.

After learning this lesson, my son took a whole 4 rounds to zero. He then proceeded to shoot the heck out of all my .243Win until the PAST recoil shield started slipping. Cured that with safety pins.

Wife got a hog first time out. Son would have, but we didn't see one.

Oh, I bought 4-5 boxes of different heavy-for .243Win hunting loads and shot for groups by my lonesome before wife & son shot rifle. Wanted to find a good hunting load. Settled on a Fed 100gr Nos Partition load. Punched right through Mr. Piggy's vertebrae, no problem.

Good luck.