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Old July 24, 2011, 12:48 PM   #26
tahunua001
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not a complete comparison but I have a DPMS sportical w/badger ordnance handguard and a rem 700 in 243. I haven't been able to hunt very much these last few years but the 700 is accurate and reliable. I shot my first deer with it at 300 yards(granted it was a tiny little doe but stil,l a target thats smaller target requires better accuracy. my brother who whined and moaned the entire time he was building my AR15 stole it while I was off "accelerating my life" and **** himself a 250 pound white tail at a full run@ 250 yards. took one shot to stop him and one shot to finish the job and both bullets where less than 4 inches apart. for a buck that size at that range, I'd say that 223 is more than potent enough to handle a role as a deer gun as long as you use the right type of ammo. and both of these guns have nikon prostaff 3x9s on them(the ar has the BDC reticule)
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Old July 24, 2011, 05:33 PM   #27
warbirdlover
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It is illegal in Wisconsin (must be bigger then .22 cal.) and not a good choice anyway on a 200+ lb. bruiser buck. It would kill small doe easily enough.
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Old July 24, 2011, 09:20 PM   #28
barnetmill
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The .223 is used by a lot of hunters in the south. If you can shoot accurately you are not handicapping yourself with that caliber if you use the proper projectiles. Use properly designed projectiles and hit the dear in the vitals. For many years cartridges like the 32-20, 38-40, 44-40 with black powder loads killed a lot of deer in the wooded areas of this country. It is a very common question as to what the minimum caliber is for dear. I would not use the .223 for elk or very large deer, even if it was legal, but at 50-100 yards I would have no problem with using one on a southeastern white tail deer. Remember a well placed shot from a .223 beats a poorly placed shot from what ever the in vogue super duper smoke pole of the day is that is being touted by the gun rags. The advantage of using your combat rifle for hunting should be obvious in that the man that uses one gun for all of his shooting ends up being a more skillful with that rifle. Me I am switching over the Kalashnikov system for everything that I do, that is shotgun, .308 rifle, and AK fighting rifle.

By the way too many people depend too much on ballistics tables.
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Old July 24, 2011, 09:41 PM   #29
jmr40
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and not a good choice anyway on a 200+ lb. bruiser buck. It would kill small doe easily enough.
Not directed to anyone in particular, but to all the naysayers. How many of you have actually seen how a big deer (or any other deer) looks after being hit with a 223. I 've seen plenty, know lots of guys who hunt with them as well as the 22 Hornet. If they are hit in the vitals at reasonable ranges they are dead before they hit the ground. A 300 mag dosen't kill any quicker, just makes it possible at longer ranges. You are basing your opinions on pure speculation.

I will make 1 concession and understand why some states don't want 223 rounds to be legal. It should only be used at fairly short ranges. Used at an appropriate range it will kill just as well as other short range weapons such as handguns and bows. With a bow, or handgun you typically run out of range before energy becomes a factor. If you are close enough to hit a deer, you are close enough to kill one. The 2 biggest problems with 223 are idiots using FMJ ammo and guys trying to shoot at deer too far away. A 223 will shoot flat enough to easily hit a deer well beyond the range it has the power to cleanly kill one. Used with good judgement it is as good a deer killer as you can get.
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Old July 24, 2011, 09:56 PM   #30
stolivar
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this is a stupid argument

the 223 is more powerful than any of the handgun rounds used. But nobody ever complains about them.

This is a stupid argument.



steve
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Old July 24, 2011, 11:34 PM   #31
SRH78
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the 223 is more powerful than any of the handgun rounds used. But nobody ever complains about them.

This is a stupid argument.



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Oh really? You might want to seriously rethink that statement.
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Old July 25, 2011, 12:14 AM   #32
SRH78
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Not directed to anyone in particular, but to all the naysayers. How many of you have actually seen how a big deer (or any other deer) looks after being hit with a 223.
Not a 223 but a 22-250.


As for the earlier comment
Quote:
Those who have seen the results have no reservations about using one.
This simply isn't true. Not as a rule, anyway. Many people do have faith in the the 223 but I have also known some who have hunted with it and definitely have reservations about doing so again.



edit: I am not saying the 223 won't work but the 308 is a much better choice.

Last edited by SRH78; July 25, 2011 at 12:30 AM.
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Old July 25, 2011, 12:38 AM   #33
BIG P
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I agree with JMR 40 & I am a nannyslayer & have seen a lot of deer taken with a 223 AR -bolt gun alike.I've taken around 40 myself with an AR 223
my gun has never had a FMJ in it and I have never lost a deer with it.
I take mostly doe's with it but I did shoot two pretty nice 8 pointers last
year one 155lb one 185lb both were less than 100yrds.neck shots neither
moved 6' from where they were shot.The 223 aint my first choice If I'm hunting big deer 270win is my go to.But it dont kill any faster or deader than the 223. One more thing I never lost meat with a 223 like I have the big boomers. IMO the 223 is not a begginers gun.


Have taken deer with a 45ACP,its legal in GA.

Last edited by BIG P; July 25, 2011 at 12:50 AM.
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Old July 25, 2011, 12:52 AM   #34
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but at 50-100 yards I would have no problem with using one on a southeastern white tail deer.
There the rub.....

3 things here: How big are southeastern deer?

.... and how fast are you launching that .223 bullet? How heavy is it?

Past 100 yards, a 55 grain bullet out of a 16 inch barrel is dropping into the realm of personal defense pistol ammo, in terms of energy levels....... while more conventional cartrides are still packing 3-4x that.

Quote:
For many years cartridges like the 32-20, 38-40, 44-40 with black powder loads killed a lot of deer in the wooded areas of this country.
....and none of those were launching a tiny bullet at magnum level velocities ..... a recipe for bullet failure and a big shallow wound ...... no necessarily immediately fatal.

Sure, with long barrels and careful loading of heavy controlled expansion bullets, it can be done ...... but for every guy that does that, there will be a bunch that hear that as "Ah kin take my m4gery out deer huntin', Cletus! and proceed to wound and lose a lot of animals, when the 30/30 in their truck would have done the job right the first time.

Like the AR and want to hunt with it? They come in more substantial calibers, you know?

Last edited by jimbob86; July 25, 2011 at 01:00 AM.
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Old July 25, 2011, 12:59 AM   #35
Lawyer Daggit
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I have taken a lot of wild pig and fallow deer with the 222- in the case of the pig these have usually stumbled upon while varminting and the fallow during culls.

Penetration is a serious issue unless you are using handloads that use heavier or harder bullets. It is this point that renders BS comments that the .556 is used on men so it should be fine on deer as the .556 using long fmj bullets, and in any event there are issues regarding the stopping power of those bullets that is today deliberate- the argument that a wounded man ties up three on the battle field etc.

If you must shoot larger game with the 222 or 223 and your marksmanship is up to it, I suggest you buy a box of the following and see which works best in your gun.

Barnes 52 gn X bullet
Nosler 60 gn partition
Trophy bonded 53 gn.
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Old July 25, 2011, 01:16 AM   #36
Edward429451
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If you live in a state where they have 40 pound Deer then it might be practical. I wouldn't try it in Colorado where the Mule Deer can go several hundred pounds, then I would say no.

I've heard the tales of Elk being taken with 22 Mag headshots too, but it doesn't make it practical, unless you're a poacher I suppose. There are more practical calibers than 223 that don't even begin to recoil a lot.
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Old July 25, 2011, 12:15 PM   #37
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I have used a .22 HP a few times over the years and using a .223 would not bother me at all. The only difference I see with heavier bullets in the deer woods is a bullet like a .270 will blow a deer leg clean off and a heavier bullet like a .35 REM will leave it hanging by some skin so the deer can run around with it for a while. When the deer is hit right with any bullet, it just lays there dead.
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Old July 25, 2011, 03:34 PM   #38
603Country
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Gunplummer mentioned two of my favorite deer cartridges - the 270 and the 35 Remington. My deer shooting approach (for hundreds of deer) rarely varies. I shoot them in the lungs. Both the 270 and the 35 exit the deer, and in the case that they don't drop on the spot, they rarely run far. Following my grandfather's good advice, I wait 10 minutes or so, then go to the point of impact and blood trail if necessary. My percent recovery is in the high 90's. That brings me to the 223 and my 220 Swift and the problem I have in shooting deer with them. The bullet often does not exit the deer, and it's the exit side that gives me the good blood trail. So...there's not usually a good blood trail, which often makes them a good bit harder to find. If they happen to run 100 yards or more your chances of finding the deer get a lot smaller. I'm a very good and relentless tracker (can track a lizard across a dry rock), but it helps to have a good track to follow. So...yes, you can shoot and kill deer with a 223, but it's marginal. It does get a bit better if you use the Nosler Partition or one of the Barnes bullets, which should exit the animal. My most recent 223 big pig shot was perfectly placed, but there was no blood trail. Light was fading. I found him by a few light tracks and some overturned leaves, which took me to a heavily traveled game trail. He was about 100 yards down the trail. The first drop of blood was about 50 yards from where he was shot. So use the 223 if you must, or if it's the only gun you have, or you just need to prove us wrong, but it's not an ideal deer cartridge.
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Old July 26, 2011, 02:26 PM   #39
tahunua001
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Past 100 yards, a 55 grain bullet out of a 16 inch barrel is dropping into the realm of personal defense pistol ammo, in terms of energy levels....... while more conventional cartrides are still packing 3-4x that.
all these arguements are moot. you can kill a 125 pound whitetail with a 22 pistol if you wanted to. is it humane? no. is it effective? yes.

my 16" AR has killed full grown whitetail bucks at 250 yards with 60gr federal vshoks.

you dont need that much power to kill a deer. I know guys that insist that their 300 win mag is "the best deer rifle ever made". are they wrong? not necessarily but there is such thing as overkill.
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Old July 26, 2011, 03:36 PM   #40
PRONE2
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In the past 3 years the Mrs. and I have taken 5 whitetails and 4 hogs with the AR in 223. Never had to track any on them more than 10 yards using sivler bear 62gr soft points. I'm SURE that it is not for everybody, but it works well for us.
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Old July 26, 2011, 07:56 PM   #41
GeauxTide
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Art said it best.
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Old July 27, 2011, 01:40 AM   #42
M.O.A.
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ha ha ha you all are so funny if he wants to use a 223 so be it it will work and if someone else wants to use a 416 rem mag that will work to
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Old July 27, 2011, 07:14 AM   #43
thallub
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Shot placement is everything. i track wounded elk, deer and, sometimes hogs, for other hunters: Last season i located 17 deer and elk for other hunters. Over half the animals i recover are shot in the guts. Hunters tell vivid stories about how they doubled lunged that big buck and it just ran off. Very few guys tell me straight out that the animal is gutshot.

i deer hunt almost exclusively with a muzzleloader; so i can't attest to the effectiveness of the .223 on deer. However, in my muzzleloader experience deer are easier to kill than wild hogs.

i kill a lot of hogs, even big hogs, using a 5.56mm/.223. i've never lost a hog that was shot with a .223 round. For many years i used the military ball M193 round on hogs. At ranges of 150 yards or less when fired from a 16" barrel; the military ball bullet penetrates about 5", yaws 90 degrees and fragments, often shredding the heart, lungs and diaphragm.

About one year ago i started using the excellent Barnes 53 Grain TSX bullet on hogs. Put that bullet where it is supposed to go and it will bring down the largest wild hog you ever saw. Shoot a hog in the guts with a .35 Whelen and the animal will run off.
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Old July 27, 2011, 10:31 AM   #44
chadstrickland
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A 22lr will kill deer and hogs grave yard dead ( just rumor not from personal experience )...and a 5.56 is more than enough to kill deer. I for one have never had a single deer run off after I shoot them ( about 10 yards is the most )
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Old July 28, 2011, 01:32 AM   #45
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Hey M.O.A

Funny you should mention a .416 caliber. I found a loaded .416 Rigby round on state game lands in West Virginia. The first day of deer you hear some pretty strange rifle shots down there.
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Old July 28, 2011, 03:59 AM   #46
M.O.A.
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same with opening day in Ky. i know ive heard fullautos going off
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Old July 28, 2011, 07:17 AM   #47
Art Eatman
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Looks like .223 is well-covered, and now we're drifting into Rigbys and full auto...
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