Keep your finger out of the trigger until you're ready to fire...

C0untZer0 · July 11, 2011, 12:52 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC5nh172Dt4

I'm betting that the firearm used was a Glock.

I like watching videos like this to combat any laziness with safety on my part. Also if I ever get any stupid ideas, I review videos like these and then afterwards I think "Ehhh... maybe I'll pass on that idea."

(Edit by staff: Profanity warning (although I'd probably be cussing too

)

Occam's Razor · July 11, 2011, 12:57 PM

I'm betting the holster was a Serpa

old bear · July 11, 2011, 01:03 PM

In the early 70's I/we were taught to place the trigger finger on the trigger as you drew your weapon. 40 years later It's still a hard habit to break, and I have to remind myself not to do so at the start of every range session. I now realize that not placing the trigger finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot is an EXCELLENT safety rule.

Beentown71 · July 11, 2011, 01:12 PM

I would put money on that holster being a "SERPA" type holster. I always wondered why they didn't put the release button up about the frame.

Beentown

9-ball · July 11, 2011, 01:23 PM

IMHO it doesn't matter what the holster or the gun was, everybody should follow Rule No.3 ALWAYS. Your finger is your best safety.

redstategunnut · July 11, 2011, 01:24 PM

This has been up on the net for about a week now.

The video is Tex Grebner with a 1911 and a Serpa.

C0untZer0 · July 11, 2011, 01:30 PM

OK, so I was wrong about the Glock.

The Glock is like that kid who gets caught stealin 2 times and then after that - he is the first one they look at whenever anything come up missing.

But - for this to be a 1911, I don't see him flip off a safety, so he's carrying it cocked and unlocked? Uh.... there's yet another safety lesson in here somewhere.

C0untZer0 · July 11, 2011, 01:35 PM

And Grebner talking about it:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=455923

C0untZer0 · July 11, 2011, 01:42 PM

Oh I guess he's saying that when he went to push down on the holster release he pushed down on the Kimber safety.

Maybe this is a good argument for training with just whatever your primary weapon is?

If you're going to fire different pistols at the range that's one thing, but do you really need to train fast draw "from retention" with multiple models?

9-ball · July 11, 2011, 01:57 PM

I have to admit, my first thought was "What a retard". So when I read it was Tex Grebner I was really puzzled. After hearing his explanation about it, I have to agree that he has a point. Negligent discharges happen, even to the best.

Eghad · July 11, 2011, 02:29 PM

you mean Illinois Grebner

aarondhgraham · July 11, 2011, 02:33 PM

Quote:

In the early 70's I/we were taught to place the trigger finger on the trigger as you drew your weapon.

That's why all of my holster patterns from that era,,,
Have cutouts to expose the trigger.

Even in the early 1970's Air Force training sessions,,,
We were taught to "engage the trigger" at draw .

Aarond

kraigwy · July 11, 2011, 02:46 PM

I never was taught to put the finger on the trigger while drawing, either in the army or police dept.

I went to my first instructors course in 1976, FBI's LEO Firearms Instructor Development course. We were taught then to put your finger on the trigger AS YOU BROUGHT THE GUN ONTO THE TARGET.

Anyway this topic was discussed in General firearms section here.

I have a Blackhawk CQC holster for my Beretta. You cannot put your finger on the trigger until the gun is removed from the holster.

No way in hell can you blame the holster.

Two things according to the video. He disengaged the safety as the gun started out of the holster, and he put his finger in the trigger as it came out.

If he skipped either of the two things (assuming the safety worked) we wouldn't be discussing this.

Mainly the finger in the trigger before he's on target. On most ranges and every match or clinic I have any thing to do with, that alone would get you kicked off the range.

Its SHOOTER ERROR anyway you look at it.

C0untZer0 · July 11, 2011, 03:09 PM

It's a training issue any way you cut it.

1) Keep your finger off of the trigger

2) Training with multiple weapons and equipment causes confused muscle memory and decreases your proficiency with any single weapon system.

kraigwy · July 11, 2011, 03:12 PM

Quote:

2) Training with multiple weapons and equipment causes confused muscle memory and decreases your proficiency with any single weapon system.

I disagree with that one too. Keeping your finger off the trigger works with any gun, rifle, pistol, revolver, machine gun.

In fact all the 4 Basic Firearm Safety rules relate to every type weapon.

C0untZer0 · July 11, 2011, 03:13 PM

Quote:

you mean Illinois Grebner

Tex belongs to you guys - don't pawn em off on us -his name is Tex !

**Mal H** · July 11, 2011, 03:40 PM

No need to rehash this. The link to the ongoing discussion is in post #8.

Capt. Charlie · July 11, 2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Oh gosh - here is the previous thread

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And Grebner talking about it:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=455923

Yep. Sorry COunt, but the other thread has over 100 posts and is going strong. I'd merge the two as this is a worthy thread, but with that many replies in both that one and this, it would result in mass confusion.

Please continue the discussion in the other thread in General Handguns, as I have to close this one.

Capt. Charlie · July 11, 2011, 03:43 PM

Oops! Looks like Mal and I were simulposting

.

July 11, 2011, 12:52 PM	#1
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Keep your finger out of the trigger until you're ready to fire... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zC5nh172Dt4 I'm betting that the firearm used was a Glock. I like watching videos like this to combat any laziness with safety on my part. Also if I ever get any stupid ideas, I review videos like these and then afterwards I think "Ehhh... maybe I'll pass on that idea." (Edit by staff: Profanity warning (although I'd probably be cussing too ) Last edited by Capt. Charlie; July 11, 2011 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Added warning on strong language

July 11, 2011, 12:57 PM	#2
Occam's Razor Member Join Date: May 20, 2011 Location: Colorado Posts: 15	I'm betting the holster was a Serpa __________________ "We do not rise too the level of our expectations, rather we fall to the level of our training" Archilochus, Greek Soldier

July 11, 2011, 01:12 PM	#4
Beentown71 Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2009 Location: Midwest Posts: 1,560	I would put money on that holster being a "SERPA" type holster. I always wondered why they didn't put the release button up about the frame. Beentown __________________ Μολὼν λάβε Time for the Mall Ninja list: Beretta 92fs, Springer XD9, High Standard Model HB, RRA bull bbl...aw heck with it time to go plink

July 11, 2011, 01:23 PM	#5
9-ball Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2011 Location: Belgium Posts: 340	IMHO it doesn't matter what the holster or the gun was, everybody should follow Rule No.3 ALWAYS. Your finger is your best safety. __________________ Quality of life is measured by number of rounds fired, quantity of life by number of rounds left to fire.

July 11, 2011, 01:57 PM	#10
9-ball Senior Member Join Date: May 21, 2011 Location: Belgium Posts: 340	I have to admit, my first thought was "What a retard". So when I read it was Tex Grebner I was really puzzled. After hearing his explanation about it, I have to agree that he has a point. Negligent discharges happen, even to the best. __________________ Quality of life is measured by number of rounds fired, quantity of life by number of rounds left to fire.

July 11, 2011, 01:03 PM	#3
old bear Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2009 Location: Not close enough to the beach Posts: 1,477	In the early 70's I/we were taught to place the trigger finger on the trigger as you drew your weapon. 40 years later It's still a hard habit to break, and I have to remind myself not to do so at the start of every range session. I now realize that not placing the trigger finger on the trigger until you are ready to shoot is an EXCELLENT safety rule.

July 11, 2011, 01:24 PM	#6
redstategunnut Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2009 Location: see name Posts: 405	This has been up on the net for about a week now. The video is Tex Grebner with a 1911 and a Serpa.

July 11, 2011, 01:30 PM	#7
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	OK, so I was wrong about the Glock. The Glock is like that kid who gets caught stealin 2 times and then after that - he is the first one they look at whenever anything come up missing. But - for this to be a 1911, I don't see him flip off a safety, so he's carrying it cocked and unlocked? Uh.... there's yet another safety lesson in here somewhere.

July 11, 2011, 01:35 PM	#8
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Oh gosh - here is the previous thread And Grebner talking about it: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=455923

July 11, 2011, 01:42 PM	#9
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Oh I guess he's saying that when he went to push down on the holster release he pushed down on the Kimber safety. Maybe this is a good argument for training with just whatever your primary weapon is? If you're going to fire different pistols at the range that's one thing, but do you really need to train fast draw "from retention" with multiple models?

July 11, 2011, 02:29 PM	#11
Eghad Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 6,231	you mean Illinois Grebner __________________ Have a nice day at the range NRA Life Member

July 11, 2011, 02:46 PM	#13
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I never was taught to put the finger on the trigger while drawing, either in the army or police dept. I went to my first instructors course in 1976, FBI's LEO Firearms Instructor Development course. We were taught then to put your finger on the trigger AS YOU BROUGHT THE GUN ONTO THE TARGET. Anyway this topic was discussed in General firearms section here. I have a Blackhawk CQC holster for my Beretta. You cannot put your finger on the trigger until the gun is removed from the holster. No way in hell can you blame the holster. Two things according to the video. He disengaged the safety as the gun started out of the holster, and he put his finger in the trigger as it came out. If he skipped either of the two things (assuming the safety worked) we wouldn't be discussing this. Mainly the finger in the trigger before he's on target. On most ranges and every match or clinic I have any thing to do with, that alone would get you kicked off the range. Its SHOOTER ERROR anyway you look at it. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

July 11, 2011, 03:09 PM	#14
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	It's a training issue any way you cut it. 1) Keep your finger off of the trigger 2) Training with multiple weapons and equipment causes confused muscle memory and decreases your proficiency with any single weapon system.

July 11, 2011, 03:40 PM	#17
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,955	No need to rehash this. The link to the ongoing discussion is in post #8.

July 11, 2011, 03:43 PM	#19
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Oops! Looks like Mal and I were simulposting . __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie