cartridges above 30-06 - Page 2

TX Hunter · October 15, 2012, 11:45 AM

just a note, as others have pointed this out. Factory loaded 30 06 cartridges are not loaded to their full potential. The pressure is kept to 1906 standards for the 1903 Springfield. A hand load can bring out the true performance capibilities of this fine Round. For anything an ethical marksman might use a 30 06 for the factory loads are just fine.

emcon5 · October 15, 2012, 01:01 PM

Quote:

I think that you're describing the 45/70 to a tee.

On what planet does the 45-70 have "a little bit more velocity and less bullet drop past a certain range" than the .30-06?

Edward429451 · October 15, 2012, 01:20 PM

Oh, my fault. I was thinking practical use instead of a strict set of guidelines. The range could be dealt with with sights, but your velocity requirement leaves the 45/70 out. Calm down, I stand down to your guidelines.

natman · October 15, 2012, 01:32 PM

Quote:

My first thought is .308. Better ballistics, shorter action, fairly common (plus milsurp). It'll be my next deer rifle.

The 308 runs about 100-150 fps slower than the 30-06 with bullets of the same weight. The shorter action is a plus, but better ballistics isn't.

jabames · October 15, 2012, 03:13 PM

Hmmm maybe my 180g Nosler AB's will do the trick for meh in .30-06, if I find a good velocity to load them with and not too much pressure etc..

jabames · October 15, 2012, 03:16 PM

I use IMR 4350 for handloads, I have just now switched to Nosler, my second oldest bro said there was too much meat damage on a moose from his 300 win mag loaded with Barnes tsx ot ttsx bullets.

ligonierbill · October 15, 2012, 08:06 PM

Remember that "magnum" is a manufacturer's name aimed at selling rifles, like "express". Though generally a little bigger case, there is nothing unique about it. A 7mm STW has more powder capacity and velocity than a 7mm Remington "Magnum", so does a 7mm Dakota and probably others. We get too hung up on these terms.

RickE · October 15, 2012, 08:38 PM

Just get a .300 Win Mag. And yes it is a mag. You will pay from $25 to $50 for a box of 20. There were some "light magnum loads by Hornady (?) a while back that bridged the gap between the 30-06 and the .300 mag. Good luck

sc928porsche · October 15, 2012, 08:39 PM

TX Hunter is correct. Your answer is reloading. Factory ammo does not come near the potential of the cartridge. There are too many of the old war horses running around. Because of liability they only load ammo for the weakest rifle.

You hear all the time about how the 308 is equal to the 06. With factory loads, that is pretty much true. HOWEVER: when reloaded to their potential, the 06 is quite superior to the 308 in a good modern firearm.

If you wish to go past the potential of the 06, then you will have to go to the Magnum. That is why they came about.

taylorce1 · October 16, 2012, 09:34 AM

You have got to be a little realistic about the 06 even if you hand load you'll probably only beat factory speeds by 100 fps on average. .30-06 factory loads don't operate above 60,000 psi which is SAAMI max for the cartridge. Ammunition manufacturers have had over 100 years to find the sweet spot that the 06 operates in.

Sure every rifle is different and barrel length will increase or decrease your speed a bit from published speeds of factory ammunition. Plus you have rifles with fast barrels. Just don't expect hand loading to provide magical speeds without shortening brass life and putting stress on your action if you push it past 65,000 psi in a modern bolt action. Besides other than Hornady Superformance, how many of the factory "Light Magnum" loads do you see being produced today compared to a few years ago?

black mamba · October 16, 2012, 10:35 AM

"More powerful" and "flatter shooting" are not necessarily the same. The 35 Whelen is more powerful than the 30-06 and shoots about the same trajectory, but not flatter. If you want flatter shooting, but don't want a lot more recoil and muzzle blast, then try the 300 RCM. It will give you about 75 fps more velocity, with very little more recoil.

The problem with velocity is, it takes a lot more powder to make a little improvement. So if you really want flatter shooting, you need a pretty big boost in case size, which means a lot more recoil, blast and expense. To gain 4" in trajectory at 400 yards with a 180 grain .308 bullet, you have to double the recoil. Is it really worth it???

Mono-metal bullets like the Barnes TTSX give tremendous pentetration and tissue destruction with much lighter than standard bullets. You can gain 2.5" of trajectory with the 150 grain TTSX in the standard 30-06, and actually have a little LESS recoil than the 180 grain load. If you handload, I'd go that route.

old roper · October 16, 2012, 03:54 PM

Lot depends if you want to build or buy factory rifle.

kilotanker22 · October 16, 2012, 10:15 PM

I would say if you load your own then hang on to the 06 out to 300 yards the trajectory is similar
And with Normandy superformance in a 180 grain inter bond you get 2820 From a 24 inch barrell versus 2700 For traditional factory loading. And traditional 300 win mag velocities only around 2960. Seems like a good middle ground between the two.

kilotanker22 · October 16, 2012, 10:17 PM

Sorry hornady not Normandy. I hate auto correct.

jabames · October 16, 2012, 10:27 PM

yeppp.

warbirdlover · October 17, 2012, 10:18 AM

Just use the Hornady Superperformance ammo in your 30-06. Check out the ballistics.

http://www.hornady.com/store/30-06-S...Superformance/

Old Grump · October 17, 2012, 01:24 PM

An old Mauser re-chambered for a 30-06 case and the case necked out to .323 and you have an 8MM-06.

The larger bullet base gives more area to push on so I would think you get the same advantage the 32 Win Spcl has over the 30-30.

Typical load using a 150 gr bullet and 59 grains of 4895 gives you a muzzle velocity of 3026 fps and energy of 3050 ft/lbs.

Or you could borrow my .348 and see if you like getting your bell rung everytime you pull the trigger.

It's only a 150 yard gun practically speaking but it will stop a freight train...well a small train.

GeauxTide · October 17, 2012, 01:26 PM

I have a 338-06. Wildcat, but easy made cases from '06 or 25-06. A 200-210 at 2800 is a thumper with the recoil of an '06 with 180s.

Strafer Gott · October 17, 2012, 02:19 PM

I know you can load a 300 WM down to 30-06, but you can't load an '06 up to a 300 WM. I know moose have a reputation for soaking up 30-06, but that isn't with modern bullets. The win mag will get you another couple hundred fps gain, and that translates to range, more than anything. That 300 WM case can sure go through a can of powder in a hurry.

taylorce1 · October 17, 2012, 05:43 PM

Quote:

The win mag will get you another couple hundred fps gain, and that translates to range, more than anything.

Well it translates to a flatter trajectory, I wouldn't say more range. Both the 06 and Win Mag are effective way past what the normal hunter will ever shoot. What the extra 200 fps really does is impart more energy with the bullet at normal hunting ranges. Which in turn usually gets a larger reaction from the animal hit. However, all is moot if you can't shoot the Win Mag as well as the 06.

RC20 · October 17, 2012, 10:59 PM

I believe you can get a somewhat derated version of the powder Hornady is using in their souped up rounds that have been mentioned.

The advantage is that while it does not have quite the velocity that Hornady is getting, you can load for better accuracy (using all the tricks that even Hornady can't use.).

It gets you pretty close to a 300 WM and that's getting into really good territory.

Deja vu · October 18, 2012, 02:39 PM

There is always the 50BMG its not a magnum and has major knock down power and I have seen people shoot it competitively at 1 mile. My first time shooting one I was able to hit a 5 foot target at 1 mile (after some one else sighted it in)

All kidding aside the 300WM is close to what you want but it is a magnum.

Really the 30-06 is hard to beat.

ttheel · October 18, 2012, 05:31 PM

the 300 WSM might be a good option. Balistics are very close to the 300 Win Mag but will have slightly less recoil in a similar weighted rifle. Now if you go with one of the very light weight model versions of the WSM it is of course going to have higher recoil.

jimbob86 · October 18, 2012, 05:40 PM

Quote:

I have just now switched to Nosler, my second oldest bro said there was too much meat damage on a moose from his 300 win mag loaded with Barnes tsx ot ttsx bullets.

Easily solved by not shooting them in the meat. Software issue, and so is easier to fix than a hardware issue.

Edward429451 · October 18, 2012, 11:55 PM

A 30/06 is overkill for a lot of Game in North America. Only the biggest Elk and Moose would require standard 180gr /06 loads.

October 15, 2012, 08:39 PM	#34
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	TX Hunter is correct. Your answer is reloading. Factory ammo does not come near the potential of the cartridge. There are too many of the old war horses running around. Because of liability they only load ammo for the weakest rifle. You hear all the time about how the 308 is equal to the 06. With factory loads, that is pretty much true. HOWEVER: when reloaded to their potential, the 06 is quite superior to the 308 in a good modern firearm. If you wish to go past the potential of the 06, then you will have to go to the Magnum. That is why they came about. __________________ No such thing as a stupid question. What is stupid is not asking it.

October 16, 2012, 09:34 AM	#35
taylorce1 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2005 Location: On the Santa Fe Trail Posts: 8,242	You have got to be a little realistic about the 06 even if you hand load you'll probably only beat factory speeds by 100 fps on average. .30-06 factory loads don't operate above 60,000 psi which is SAAMI max for the cartridge. Ammunition manufacturers have had over 100 years to find the sweet spot that the 06 operates in. Sure every rifle is different and barrel length will increase or decrease your speed a bit from published speeds of factory ammunition. Plus you have rifles with fast barrels. Just don't expect hand loading to provide magical speeds without shortening brass life and putting stress on your action if you push it past 65,000 psi in a modern bolt action. Besides other than Hornady Superformance, how many of the factory "Light Magnum" loads do you see being produced today compared to a few years ago? __________________ NRA Life Member

October 16, 2012, 03:54 PM	#37
old roper Senior Member Join Date: June 11, 2007 Posts: 2,155	Lot depends if you want to build or buy factory rifle. __________________ Semper Fi Vietnam 1965 VFW Life member NRA Life Member

October 17, 2012, 01:24 PM	#42
Old Grump Member in memoriam Join Date: April 9, 2009 Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in Posts: 3,144	An old Mauser re-chambered for a 30-06 case and the case necked out to .323 and you have an 8MM-06. The larger bullet base gives more area to push on so I would think you get the same advantage the 32 Win Spcl has over the 30-30. Typical load using a 150 gr bullet and 59 grains of 4895 gives you a muzzle velocity of 3026 fps and energy of 3050 ft/lbs. Or you could borrow my .348 and see if you like getting your bell rung everytime you pull the trigger. It's only a 150 yard gun practically speaking but it will stop a freight train...well a small train. __________________ Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster--

October 18, 2012, 02:39 PM	#47
Deja vu Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2010 Location: Border of Idaho & Montana Posts: 2,584	There is always the 50BMG its not a magnum and has major knock down power and I have seen people shoot it competitively at 1 mile. My first time shooting one I was able to hit a 5 foot target at 1 mile (after some one else sighted it in) All kidding aside the 300WM is close to what you want but it is a magnum. Really the 30-06 is hard to beat. __________________ Shot placement is everything! I would rather take a round of 50BMG to the foot than a 22short to the base of the skull. all 26 of my guns are 45/70 govt, 357 mag, 22 or 12 ga... I believe in keeping it simple. Wish my wife did as well... Last edited by Deja vu; October 19, 2012 at 03:27 PM.

October 15, 2012, 11:45 AM	#26
TX Hunter Senior Member Join Date: February 11, 2010 Location: East Texas USA Posts: 1,805	just a note, as others have pointed this out. Factory loaded 30 06 cartridges are not loaded to their full potential. The pressure is kept to 1906 standards for the 1903 Springfield. A hand load can bring out the true performance capibilities of this fine Round. For anything an ethical marksman might use a 30 06 for the factory loads are just fine.

October 15, 2012, 01:20 PM	#28
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	Oh, my fault. I was thinking practical use instead of a strict set of guidelines. The range could be dealt with with sights, but your velocity requirement leaves the 45/70 out. Calm down, I stand down to your guidelines.

October 15, 2012, 03:13 PM	#30
jabames Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 45	Hmmm maybe my 180g Nosler AB's will do the trick for meh in .30-06, if I find a good velocity to load them with and not too much pressure etc..

October 15, 2012, 03:16 PM	#31
jabames Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 45	I use IMR 4350 for handloads, I have just now switched to Nosler, my second oldest bro said there was too much meat damage on a moose from his 300 win mag loaded with Barnes tsx ot ttsx bullets.

October 15, 2012, 08:06 PM	#32
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,448	Remember that "magnum" is a manufacturer's name aimed at selling rifles, like "express". Though generally a little bigger case, there is nothing unique about it. A 7mm STW has more powder capacity and velocity than a 7mm Remington "Magnum", so does a 7mm Dakota and probably others. We get too hung up on these terms.

October 15, 2012, 08:38 PM	#33
RickE Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2009 Location: Kirkland Wa. Posts: 516	Just get a .300 Win Mag. And yes it is a mag. You will pay from $25 to $50 for a box of 20. There were some "light magnum loads by Hornady (?) a while back that bridged the gap between the 30-06 and the .300 mag. Good luck

October 16, 2012, 10:35 AM	#36
black mamba Senior Member Join Date: September 13, 2011 Location: SW Florida Posts: 890	"More powerful" and "flatter shooting" are not necessarily the same. The 35 Whelen is more powerful than the 30-06 and shoots about the same trajectory, but not flatter. If you want flatter shooting, but don't want a lot more recoil and muzzle blast, then try the 300 RCM. It will give you about 75 fps more velocity, with very little more recoil. The problem with velocity is, it takes a lot more powder to make a little improvement. So if you really want flatter shooting, you need a pretty big boost in case size, which means a lot more recoil, blast and expense. To gain 4" in trajectory at 400 yards with a 180 grain .308 bullet, you have to double the recoil. Is it really worth it??? Mono-metal bullets like the Barnes TTSX give tremendous pentetration and tissue destruction with much lighter than standard bullets. You can gain 2.5" of trajectory with the 150 grain TTSX in the standard 30-06, and actually have a little LESS recoil than the 180 grain load. If you handload, I'd go that route.

October 16, 2012, 10:15 PM	#38
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	I would say if you load your own then hang on to the 06 out to 300 yards the trajectory is similar And with Normandy superformance in a 180 grain inter bond you get 2820 From a 24 inch barrell versus 2700 For traditional factory loading. And traditional 300 win mag velocities only around 2960. Seems like a good middle ground between the two.

October 16, 2012, 10:17 PM	#39
kilotanker22 Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 2012 Location: North Central, PA Posts: 2,117	Sorry hornady not Normandy. I hate auto correct.

October 16, 2012, 10:27 PM	#40
jabames Member Join Date: September 18, 2012 Posts: 45	yeppp.

October 17, 2012, 10:18 AM	#41
warbirdlover Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2009 Location: central Wisconsin Posts: 2,324	Just use the Hornady Superperformance ammo in your 30-06. Check out the ballistics. http://www.hornady.com/store/30-06-S...Superformance/

October 17, 2012, 01:26 PM	#43
GeauxTide Senior Member Join Date: April 20, 2009 Location: Helena, AL Posts: 4,423	I have a 338-06. Wildcat, but easy made cases from '06 or 25-06. A 200-210 at 2800 is a thumper with the recoil of an '06 with 180s.

October 17, 2012, 02:19 PM	#44
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	I know you can load a 300 WM down to 30-06, but you can't load an '06 up to a 300 WM. I know moose have a reputation for soaking up 30-06, but that isn't with modern bullets. The win mag will get you another couple hundred fps gain, and that translates to range, more than anything. That 300 WM case can sure go through a can of powder in a hurry.

October 17, 2012, 10:59 PM	#46
RC20 Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2008 Location: Alaska Posts: 7,014	I believe you can get a somewhat derated version of the powder Hornady is using in their souped up rounds that have been mentioned. The advantage is that while it does not have quite the velocity that Hornady is getting, you can load for better accuracy (using all the tricks that even Hornady can't use.). It gets you pretty close to a 300 WM and that's getting into really good territory.

October 18, 2012, 05:31 PM	#48
ttheel Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2008 Posts: 259	the 300 WSM might be a good option. Balistics are very close to the 300 Win Mag but will have slightly less recoil in a similar weighted rifle. Now if you go with one of the very light weight model versions of the WSM it is of course going to have higher recoil.

October 18, 2012, 11:55 PM	#50
Edward429451 Junior member Join Date: November 12, 2000 Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado Posts: 9,494	A 30/06 is overkill for a lot of Game in North America. Only the biggest Elk and Moose would require standard 180gr /06 loads.