P320 Subcompact 9mm range results and ammo selections. Pictorial review. - Page 2

WVsig · March 18, 2015, 05:57 PM

Nice review... Were those groups off hand or from a rest? Either way nice shooting with a subcompact!

I have to admit the P320 is the first Cohen Sig I have been interested in. I am seriously considering a compact.

Owned an early P250 so I am still a bit scared to be a Sig Beta tester!

Mystro · March 18, 2015, 06:13 PM

Groups were off hand. Since the gun was brand new I was still getting use to the grip and trigger. It shot so easy and point shot anywhere I aimed it that I started to get sloppy and push some of the shots to the left. Its really the only subcompact I have ever shot that shoots like a full size gun. This is THE 1911 owners polymer striker fire pistol.

. I think new gun owners will not have any problem owning the P320 Subcompact as their first gun. You don't have to make any excuses with its accuracy even though its so small. The compact and full size ought to be a tack driver like the PPQ. I plan on owning many calibers and sizes and will probably buy 3 complete guns and then mix and match calibers and sizes with the x-change kits once they start becoming readily available. If you find a Subcompact, buy it because they are extremely rare right now. You can find the larger size x-change kits later and they will be more easy to purchased than the SC. I can't imagine anyone not loving this gun.
I currently own 28 handguns and the P320 quickly became a standout.

FYI: Sig maintained their own high quality feel with the P320. The P320 feels unique and like a Sig and not like any other striker fire. Its very neutral and doesn't require any special pointing or way of operating so the LE is going to eat it up.

WVsig · March 18, 2015, 06:26 PM

I have a line on a Compact with night sights for $505 so I think I am going to go that route if pull the trigger.

Mystro · March 18, 2015, 06:30 PM

Wow, that's what I paid at my regular LGS without night sights so grab it. I will say that the regular steel sights are very good but I would have preferred night sights right out of the box. The Subcompacts are extremely rare so I grabbed one regardless and will put a set of Meprolights on it.

TunnelRat · March 18, 2015, 07:57 PM

I snagged my Compact for $500 with night sights. It's probably one of my favorite recent purchases and I feel like the value even at $550 or more is pretty solid.

bikerbill · March 18, 2015, 08:08 PM

Excellent review ... I was interested in your comment about the gun being dry. I was at the range today with my brand new p238 Scorpion and it looked like Sig had oiled it with a funnel. It was oozing oil from everywhere. Dried it a little and shot 200+ rounds of PMC FMJ and a box of my regular carry ammo, Hornady Critical Defense. Not one failure of any kind, incredible accuracy at 7 yds, all shots except for a flyer or two in the center two rings of a shoot'n'see target. Light trigger, almost no recoil, which kept the sights on target. Speaking of the sights, night sights are such a great addition to an SD gun. I'm in love.

marine6680 · March 18, 2015, 10:59 PM

Mystro...

Do you have the new version with out of battery disconnect?

TunnelRat · March 18, 2015, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Do you have the new version with out of battery disconnect?

I'm not sure what you mean. What current semiauto production pistol doesn't have this?

redhologram · March 18, 2015, 11:36 PM

Great review and that one has been casually on my radar but after reading that it's going to get a bit more priority. It seems like a very good contender to add in to my EDC rotation.

TunnelRat · March 18, 2015, 11:57 PM

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...4840030953/p/1

marine I thought I'd post this as it's related to your question. Bruce Gray has a post on the bottom of Page 6 that I think helps explain the answer.

As best as I can figure, on the P320 the firing pin block also serves as the out of battery disconnect in combination with the trigger bar. If the slide is out of battery far enough the lever attached to the trigger bar will not be able to move that firing pin block out of the way and the firing pin can't be released. You might notice though that the P320 slide and barrel stay locked fully in battery for a longer time in the rearward travel of the slide on the frame than on many other pistols. As soon as the barrel starts unlocking from the slide the pencil test will fail every time. However the slide can be slightly rearward on the frame and the firing pin get hits, but again it seems to still be in battery. This is different than say my VP9 where substantially less rearward motion of the slide is needed to trigger the disconnect. But again, this is a different system.

I have found documentation of SIG mentioning a disconnect safety in the very early days of the P320 literature. I doubt they'd make a pistol without one but at the same time worry about the slide being able to be removed with the magazine in. Especially for a pistol marketed to police, it is pretty essential.
http://www.gundigest.com/tactical-ge...ig-p320-review

Interestingly Massad Ayoob even notes this in his own review and treats it as a positive:
"The first thing I discovered about the P320 was that it has a “stand-off capability,” a good thing. This means that if the muzzle is pressed hard against a firmly resisting surface (like the chest of a murderer about to kill you) it will fire, instead of going out of battery and failing to discharge, as most autopistols will. It amazes me that more people don’t test for this, and amazes me still more that manufacturers who put this potentially life-saving feature into their autopistols don’t advertise it. - See more at: http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...er-p320-beauty"

marine6680 · March 19, 2015, 06:33 AM

Sig has recently changed the fire control module.

If you go to their site and look it over it will show it. They even make it one of their bullet points.

For the new production... It is the more traditional style disconnect that has a tab on the trigger bar ride against the slide. When in battery the tab is in a little slot that allows the trigger bar to be connected to the sear, and if out of battery the slide pushes down the tab and disconnects the trigger.

What I am curious about is if the trigger maintains the same semiautomatic trigger disconnect as the original or uses the new out of battery disconnect for semiauto trigger disconnect as well.

My 320 I got last year, you can see the trigger disconnect working with the slide removed.

Pull the trigger and the sear drops but at the end of the trigger pull it pops back up into battery. So the trigger disconnect works independent of slide movement... Which is different that pretty much every other semi auto pistol, that requires the slide to move to disconnect the trigger.

My 320 still needs the slide to move to reset the striker, but not the trigger and sear.

Bruce mentioned the fact that the trigger in a 320 is not suited to standard methods of limiting overtravel and trigger work.

This is because of the method used to disconnect the trigger from the sear. The pistol needs the overtravel for the disconnect to work.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2015, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Sig has recently changed the fire control module.

If you go to their site and look it over it will show it. They even make it one of their bullet points.

Where? The pictures I see on the P320 Sig "Evolution" page still look the same.

Also wouldn't we be able to see the tab you mention on the picture Mystro took of his FCU? Shouldn't we still see it protrude above the FCU?

Quote:

What I am curious about is if the trigger maintains the same semiautomatic trigger disconnect as the original or uses the new out of battery disconnect for semiauto trigger disconnect as well.

I don't follow you here. How would the trigger-bar out-of-battery safety you've described prevent the firearm from going full auto? Once back in battery the tab would be back in the cut out of the slide and the sear could be released again.

WVsig · March 19, 2015, 08:12 AM

Sounds like "Cohen-sig" beta testing is still in full effect. Anyone know the date when the control module was changed?

What other changes have occurred that people know of since the P320 was introduced.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2015, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Sounds like "Cohen-sig" beta testing is still in full effect.

Nearly every part in my M&P is a revision of the design that was first released to the public. The sear housing, the sear, the trigger bar, the slide release levers, the barrel especially, the list goes on and you wouldn't know it unless you asked on a forum. Glock is on Gen 4 of "Perfection" with plenty of initial problems with the latest Gen. Springfield Armory had to do a safety recall to modify the grip safeties on the XDS. What company doesn't change designs over time?

Frankly the design as it first came out works. I had to search hard to find an out of battery issue, and that post on SIG forum doesn't tell us what SIG said was the final problem for the OP (he never reports back) nor are there others in 9 pages that report the same problem (though one does link to a similar post on Brian Eno's forum). Even Bruce Gray suggests the problem should be extremely rare and doesn't indicate it's an issue facing the P320 in particular. I don't understand why they changed the design.

Mystro · March 19, 2015, 08:28 AM

My build date for my Subcompact is Dec 31 2014. I should have mentioned this earlier but after testing it a few times, it WILL fire when pushed against a object as if you had it against the chest of a attacker. I read Massad Ayoob's review and he highly praised Sig for this feature.

Another advantage for LE use.

WVsig · March 19, 2015, 08:31 AM

That is Sig's current MO. Look at the time between changes in the M&P line and the Glock line. There is ar much longer timetable. Yes gen 4 Glocks Had issues but other do not have the same history of beta testing that Sig does.

Sig unfortunately pushes product to market and let's the buying public work out the kinks repair issues under warranty and revise the pistol knowing most will not have a problem or more importantly get shot enough to fail. IHMO YMMV

TunnelRat · March 19, 2015, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Look at the time between changes in the M&P line and the Glock line. There is ar much longer timetable.

On the M&P? Not really. On Glock yes, but S&W has so many changes that I honestly have a spreadsheet to keep track of them (not to mention multiple changes of a single part). The SA XDS recall was very soon after release and was a safety issue. We could talk about the Caracal release too where the whole pistol line was recalled and supposedly unfixable requiring a complete revamp of the design, again for safety. We have no confirmation that safety is the problem here or even that the change was due to widespread issues. One year after initial introduction isn't overly quick for a first reexamination of the design (I still can't find pictures of this change but I keep trying).

Quote:

Had issues but other do not have the same history of beta testing that Sig does.

I think it has more to do with not fully testing a design in house than using the public as beta testers, and as I've pointed out we can find an example of this behavior with most manufacturers today. I don't think it's a conscious design to put consumers in harm's way. I am not excusing the behavior, but I am pointing out that SIG is hardly the only one (though at times perhaps one of the worst offenders) and we have no evidence that is the case with the P320.

Mystro · March 19, 2015, 09:32 AM

This is kind of like saying "where there's smoke there's fire" and there isn't even any smoke in this case. I don't like to deal with hypotheticals because the Internet has a way of twisting it into misinformation.

I found the Massad Ayoob testing the P320 review:
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...er-p320-beauty

WVsig · March 19, 2015, 09:34 AM

Quote:

I think it has more to do with not fully testing a design in house than using the public as beta testers, and as I've pointed out we can find an example of this behavior with most manufacturers today. I don't think it's a conscious design to put consumers in harm's way. I am not excusing the behavior, but I am pointing out that SIG is hardly the only one (though at times perhaps one of the worst offenders) and we have no evidence that is the case with the P320.

I believe that is exactly what I am saying. Sig does not fully test the new designs that they are releasing to the public. They let them leave the factory as somewhat unfinished and the public works out the kinks and helps them correct issues. I agree too many people do this these days but Sig is one of the worst and sell their guns at a premium price.

I also think there is a difference in changing a singe part than redesigning the control unit in a modular pistol where the control unit "is the gun".

WVsig · March 19, 2015, 09:38 AM

Quote:

This is kind of like saying "where there's smoke there's fire" and there isn't even any smoke in this case. I don't like to deal with hypotheticals because the Internet has a way of twisting it into misinformation.

I believe that the out of battery issue with the gun on the Sig forum was a issue with the barrel and slide geometry.

I do not think there is danger here but I would like to know why they changed the control unit and exactly how it changes the function of the pistol.

PS the trigger has been changed since the Ayoob review. A small percentage of people experienced trigger slap.

marine6680 · March 19, 2015, 09:55 AM

The tab I mention is on the other side of the FCM than the one you can see in the pic.

On their site... One of the little click able plus signs will mention it and show it.

The tab I mention would or can disconnect the trigger bar from the sear until you release the trigger... Just like any other trigger disconnect.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2015, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WVsig

I believe that is exactly what I am saying. Sig does not fully test the new designs that they are releasing to the public. They let them leave the factory as somewhat unfinished and the public works out the kinks and helps them correct issues. I agree too many people do this these days but Sig is one of the worst and sell their guns at a premium price.

I also think there is a difference in changing a singe part than redesigning the control unit in a modular pistol where the control unit "is the gun".

I agree with you to an extent though I would point out the P320 isn't a very premium price compared to the competition.

As for redesigning the entire fcu we haven't seen that yet. It may just be a different trigger bar on the fcu. Also keep in mind the whole fcu concept is relatively unique to this design and replacing individual parts may be a weakness in that concept depending on parts availability and ease of replacement.

TunnelRat · March 19, 2015, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marine6680

The tab I mention is on the other side of the FCM than the one you can see in the pic.

On their site... One of the little click able plus signs will mention it and show it.

I can't find it I need a link. What I see shows the original.

marine6680 · March 19, 2015, 10:01 AM

It is the if evolution page... I think it's the first pic with click able areas, the pistol points to the left. The click able area is the lower rear one.

It will bring up a picture to the side and talk about out of battery safety. That black trigger bar is not the same as the one on my pistol.

I am mostly just curious to the change and how it affects the function of the pistol as a whole.

As I said the 320 has a different trigger disconnect from the majority of semi autos. I am wondering if this change also affects the function of the trigger disconnect as well... It would actually make it easier to tune the pistol for competition shooters.

I also added an edit to my prior post adding some info.

WVsig · March 19, 2015, 10:10 AM

Quote:

It is the if evolution page... I think it's the first pic with click able areas, the pistol points to the left. The click able area is the lower rear one.

It will bring up a picture to the side and talk about out of battery safety. That black trigger bar is not the same as the one on my pistol.

I also added an edit to my prior post adding some info.

+ link popup says:

Disconnect Safety

Prevents the pistol from firing out of battery.

March 18, 2015, 05:57 PM	#26
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Nice review... Were those groups off hand or from a rest? Either way nice shooting with a subcompact! I have to admit the P320 is the first Cohen Sig I have been interested in. I am seriously considering a compact. Owned an early P250 so I am still a bit scared to be a Sig Beta tester! __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

March 18, 2015, 06:13 PM	#27
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	Groups were off hand. Since the gun was brand new I was still getting use to the grip and trigger. It shot so easy and point shot anywhere I aimed it that I started to get sloppy and push some of the shots to the left. Its really the only subcompact I have ever shot that shoots like a full size gun. This is THE 1911 owners polymer striker fire pistol.. I think new gun owners will not have any problem owning the P320 Subcompact as their first gun. You don't have to make any excuses with its accuracy even though its so small. The compact and full size ought to be a tack driver like the PPQ. I plan on owning many calibers and sizes and will probably buy 3 complete guns and then mix and match calibers and sizes with the x-change kits once they start becoming readily available. If you find a Subcompact, buy it because they are extremely rare right now. You can find the larger size x-change kits later and they will be more easy to purchased than the SC. I can't imagine anyone not loving this gun. I currently own 28 handguns and the P320 quickly became a standout. FYI: Sig maintained their own high quality feel with the P320. The P320 feels unique and like a Sig and not like any other striker fire. Its very neutral and doesn't require any special pointing or way of operating so the LE is going to eat it up. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country" Last edited by Mystro; March 18, 2015 at 06:29 PM.

March 18, 2015, 06:26 PM	#28
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	I have a line on a Compact with night sights for $505 so I think I am going to go that route if pull the trigger. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

March 18, 2015, 06:30 PM	#29
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	Wow, that's what I paid at my regular LGS without night sights so grab it. I will say that the regular steel sights are very good but I would have preferred night sights right out of the box. The Subcompacts are extremely rare so I grabbed one regardless and will put a set of Meprolights on it. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

March 18, 2015, 07:57 PM	#30
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,204	I snagged my Compact for $500 with night sights. It's probably one of my favorite recent purchases and I feel like the value even at $550 or more is pretty solid. __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness

March 18, 2015, 08:08 PM	#31
bikerbill Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2007 Location: Lago Vista TX Posts: 2,425	Excellent review ... I was interested in your comment about the gun being dry. I was at the range today with my brand new p238 Scorpion and it looked like Sig had oiled it with a funnel. It was oozing oil from everywhere. Dried it a little and shot 200+ rounds of PMC FMJ and a box of my regular carry ammo, Hornady Critical Defense. Not one failure of any kind, incredible accuracy at 7 yds, all shots except for a flyer or two in the center two rings of a shoot'n'see target. Light trigger, almost no recoil, which kept the sights on target. Speaking of the sights, night sights are such a great addition to an SD gun. I'm in love. __________________ "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants." Albert Camus

March 18, 2015, 10:59 PM	#32
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Mystro... Do you have the new version with out of battery disconnect?

March 18, 2015, 11:36 PM	#34
redhologram Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2013 Posts: 352	Great review and that one has been casually on my radar but after reading that it's going to get a bit more priority. It seems like a very good contender to add in to my EDC rotation.

March 18, 2015, 11:57 PM	#35
TunnelRat Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2011 Posts: 12,204	http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc...4840030953/p/1 marine I thought I'd post this as it's related to your question. Bruce Gray has a post on the bottom of Page 6 that I think helps explain the answer. As best as I can figure, on the P320 the firing pin block also serves as the out of battery disconnect in combination with the trigger bar. If the slide is out of battery far enough the lever attached to the trigger bar will not be able to move that firing pin block out of the way and the firing pin can't be released. You might notice though that the P320 slide and barrel stay locked fully in battery for a longer time in the rearward travel of the slide on the frame than on many other pistols. As soon as the barrel starts unlocking from the slide the pencil test will fail every time. However the slide can be slightly rearward on the frame and the firing pin get hits, but again it seems to still be in battery. This is different than say my VP9 where substantially less rearward motion of the slide is needed to trigger the disconnect. But again, this is a different system. I have found documentation of SIG mentioning a disconnect safety in the very early days of the P320 literature. I doubt they'd make a pistol without one but at the same time worry about the slide being able to be removed with the magazine in. Especially for a pistol marketed to police, it is pretty essential. http://www.gundigest.com/tactical-ge...ig-p320-review Interestingly Massad Ayoob even notes this in his own review and treats it as a positive: "The first thing I discovered about the P320 was that it has a “stand-off capability,” a good thing. This means that if the muzzle is pressed hard against a firmly resisting surface (like the chest of a murderer about to kill you) it will fire, instead of going out of battery and failing to discharge, as most autopistols will. It amazes me that more people don’t test for this, and amazes me still more that manufacturers who put this potentially life-saving feature into their autopistols don’t advertise it. - See more at: http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...er-p320-beauty" __________________ Know the status of your weapon Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture Maintain situational awareness Last edited by TunnelRat; March 19, 2015 at 12:04 AM.

March 19, 2015, 06:33 AM	#36
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Sig has recently changed the fire control module. If you go to their site and look it over it will show it. They even make it one of their bullet points. For the new production... It is the more traditional style disconnect that has a tab on the trigger bar ride against the slide. When in battery the tab is in a little slot that allows the trigger bar to be connected to the sear, and if out of battery the slide pushes down the tab and disconnects the trigger. What I am curious about is if the trigger maintains the same semiautomatic trigger disconnect as the original or uses the new out of battery disconnect for semiauto trigger disconnect as well. My 320 I got last year, you can see the trigger disconnect working with the slide removed. Pull the trigger and the sear drops but at the end of the trigger pull it pops back up into battery. So the trigger disconnect works independent of slide movement... Which is different that pretty much every other semi auto pistol, that requires the slide to move to disconnect the trigger. My 320 still needs the slide to move to reset the striker, but not the trigger and sear. Bruce mentioned the fact that the trigger in a 320 is not suited to standard methods of limiting overtravel and trigger work. This is because of the method used to disconnect the trigger from the sear. The pistol needs the overtravel for the disconnect to work. Last edited by marine6680; March 19, 2015 at 06:54 AM.

March 19, 2015, 08:12 AM	#38
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	Sounds like "Cohen-sig" beta testing is still in full effect. Anyone know the date when the control module was changed? What other changes have occurred that people know of since the P320 was introduced. __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

March 19, 2015, 08:28 AM	#40
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	My build date for my Subcompact is Dec 31 2014. I should have mentioned this earlier but after testing it a few times, it WILL fire when pushed against a object as if you had it against the chest of a attacker. I read Massad Ayoob's review and he highly praised Sig for this feature. Another advantage for LE use. __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country" Last edited by Mystro; March 19, 2015 at 08:34 AM.

March 19, 2015, 08:31 AM	#41
WVsig Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2010 Location: NC Posts: 5,309	That is Sig's current MO. Look at the time between changes in the M&P line and the Glock line. There is ar much longer timetable. Yes gen 4 Glocks Had issues but other do not have the same history of beta testing that Sig does. Sig unfortunately pushes product to market and let's the buying public work out the kinks repair issues under warranty and revise the pistol knowing most will not have a problem or more importantly get shot enough to fail. IHMO YMMV __________________ -The right to be left alone is the most comprehensive of rights, and the right most valued by free people.-Louis Brandeis -Its a tool box... I don't care you put the tools in for the job that's all... -Sam from Ronin -It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. -Aristotle

March 19, 2015, 09:32 AM	#43
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	This is kind of like saying "where there's smoke there's fire" and there isn't even any smoke in this case. I don't like to deal with hypotheticals because the Internet has a way of twisting it into misinformation. I found the Massad Ayoob testing the P320 review: http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/...er-p320-beauty __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"

March 19, 2015, 09:55 AM	#46
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	The tab I mention is on the other side of the FCM than the one you can see in the pic. On their site... One of the little click able plus signs will mention it and show it. The tab I mention would or can disconnect the trigger bar from the sear until you release the trigger... Just like any other trigger disconnect.

March 19, 2015, 10:01 AM	#49
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	It is the if evolution page... I think it's the first pic with click able areas, the pistol points to the left. The click able area is the lower rear one. It will bring up a picture to the side and talk about out of battery safety. That black trigger bar is not the same as the one on my pistol. I am mostly just curious to the change and how it affects the function of the pistol as a whole. As I said the 320 has a different trigger disconnect from the majority of semi autos. I am wondering if this change also affects the function of the trigger disconnect as well... It would actually make it easier to tune the pistol for competition shooters. I also added an edit to my prior post adding some info. Last edited by marine6680; March 19, 2015 at 10:12 AM.

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