Has the public ever sucessfully "pressured" a manufacturer into making a gun? - Page 2

Ozzieman · December 10, 2014, 07:25 PM

I haven’t and not from lack of trying.
For the past couple of years I write to Ruger a couple of times a month begging them to build a 44 special SP101 with fixed sights and 3 inch barrel.
I do get answers, but everyone of them is a “we will consider it” kind of answer.

oldcabin · December 10, 2014, 10:04 PM

Glock 42. The ultimate example. Years late to the "small" party. Well received even though dozens and dozens of comparables are available everywhere even during the panic buying times.
I'm not knocking the brand or size. I own both glock and have had several little guys and truth be told had the release been a bit sooner I'd probably have one. I just filled need right befoe

Now lets band together and ask for the perfect one that fits great, feels lighter than it is when holstered, but no real recoil ofcourse. Needs to hold alot and smell nice and be available and cheap. Has to be in that one caliber everyone agrees on too.....
And In a cool color. And come in a nice case.

gwpercle · December 12, 2014, 06:47 PM

Smith and Wesson has started making the model 66 again. Realized there was a huge demand for 30 year old guns and they were missing out big time. If that's not pressured I don't know what is! 357 magnum K-frame what's not to like.
Gary

johnwilliamson062 · December 14, 2014, 12:19 AM

As RIA is a Phillipine coompany designing for an international market, I'm going to go ahead and guess the 22 TCM dodges some odd regulations in some area I am not familiar with. Maybe the 5.7 being a "military" cartridge in some country. The cartridge doesn't make much sense at all to me otherwise. Sure guys with 40+ handguns will buy one as a range toy, but that doesn't make a carry gun in the US commercially viable.

Where does the 22 TCM hold any advantage over already available platforms?

I realized a few years ago I was going to have to make these oddball guns if I ever wanted to hold them in my hands.
In the last month I have machined, tungsten, lead, inconel, and a half dozen alloys of stainless and aluminum. None of it for firearms, but it will be before long.

Who wants an inconel lower?

Sevens · December 14, 2014, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Where does the 22 TCM hold any advantage over already available platforms?

Obviously, I will agree ahead of time that the .22 TCM is not going to vie with the Glock 19 or the J-frame .38 for top billing as a defensive handgun. And you probably got it close to "right on" when you hinted that gun cranks who like to play with oddball stuff is the likely target market...

In any case, I think the answer to your question is that the .22 TCM aims to do something similar to the cult-followed 5.7x28mm FN Five seveN pistol. It's a hot .22cal slug going at a very high speed.

Perhaps bettering the 5.7x28 in a couple of ways--
--It's a lower priced platform, and by a HEAP of money

--It's a far more familiar, established, known and loved platform, 1911(ish) rather than SpaceGun looking

--It has the swappability and kit to run multiple calibers right in the box it's shipped with, allowing for the owner to play with and run a double-stack 9mm

For Rock Island to have put that all together and offer it at THIS price point is quite an accomplishment, in my opinion.

But "how is it better than all the established stuff?"
It's likely not. Just like .357 Sig... .327 Federal... .460 Rowland...
and a zillion other ideas and marketable products.

Skans · December 14, 2014, 03:22 PM

I don't see any market for the 22TCM. But, I do think the public has had a big influence in keeping 10mm alive and well. Despite the fact that no government agency uses 10mm, Glock, Tanfoglio, Kimber, Armscor/Rock Island all still make 10mm's.

tipoc · December 14, 2014, 03:57 PM

While he was alive Bill Ruger resisted every effort and appeal to produced a revolver in 44 Spl. He stated on more than one occasion that he would never do that because there was no significant market for such a revolver and that the 44 Spl. could be fired from his 44 Magnums so the cost of production for the guns could not be justified. While he was alive Ruger never did produce a handgun in 44 Spl.

Letter writing campaigns to Ruger were promoted by gun writers John Taffin and Mike Venturino. But it was only after Bill Sr.s death that Ruger produced a 44 Spl. on their Blackhawk frame that was sold through Davidson's IIRC. A very good gun that I've been wanting to get a hold of. They've made a couple of rounds of them.

Chuck Taylor while he was teaching at Thunder Ranch heavily advocated for S&W to re-introduce their fixed site N frame in both 44 Spl. and 45acp for years. A few years back S&W did so as the Model 21-4 and the model 22-4.

So campaigns sometimes do work.

tipoc

jr24 · December 14, 2014, 04:27 PM

Quote:

so no gold anodized luger copycats in 500 S&W

Was that a Black Lagoon reference? If so, well played.

Though I thought it was in .454 Casull.

DPris · December 14, 2014, 09:52 PM

Lipsey's, not Davidsons.

Denis

tipoc · December 15, 2014, 02:31 AM

You're right! Lipsey's!

http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross...ley-revolvers/

http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.as...no=RUNVB44SPCL

http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-44Flattop.htm

tipoc

3kgt2nv · January 10, 2015, 11:47 AM

I own a 22tcm and while fun to shoot I think would be pointless in a smaller gun. even the velocity from the rifle to the handgun looses a good bit in performance I would hate to see it in a small defensive gun.

it would prob be down in the neighbor hood of +p 9mm area. which is already available and cheaper.

personally I would like to see other manufacturers offer chambering in it in such guns like a ruger Blackhawk, or a nice semi auto carbine.

December 10, 2014, 07:25 PM	#26
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	I haven’t and not from lack of trying. For the past couple of years I write to Ruger a couple of times a month begging them to build a 44 special SP101 with fixed sights and 3 inch barrel. I do get answers, but everyone of them is a “we will consider it” kind of answer. __________________ It was a sad day when I discovered my universal remote control did not in fact control the universe. Did you hear about the latest study.....5 out of 6 liberals say that Russian Roulette is safe.

December 15, 2014, 02:31 AM	#35
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	You're right! Lipsey's! http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/ross...ley-revolvers/ http://www.lipseys.com/itemdetail.as...no=RUNVB44SPCL http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-44Flattop.htm tipoc Last edited by tipoc; December 15, 2014 at 02:37 AM.

December 10, 2014, 10:04 PM	#27
oldcabin Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2013 Location: st louis Posts: 235	Glock 42. The ultimate example. Years late to the "small" party. Well received even though dozens and dozens of comparables are available everywhere even during the panic buying times. I'm not knocking the brand or size. I own both glock and have had several little guys and truth be told had the release been a bit sooner I'd probably have one. I just filled need right befoe Now lets band together and ask for the perfect one that fits great, feels lighter than it is when holstered, but no real recoil ofcourse. Needs to hold alot and smell nice and be available and cheap. Has to be in that one caliber everyone agrees on too..... And In a cool color. And come in a nice case.

December 12, 2014, 06:47 PM	#28
gwpercle Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana Posts: 1,752	Smith and Wesson has started making the model 66 again. Realized there was a huge demand for 30 year old guns and they were missing out big time. If that's not pressured I don't know what is! 357 magnum K-frame what's not to like. Gary

December 14, 2014, 12:19 AM	#29
johnwilliamson062 Junior member Join Date: May 16, 2008 Posts: 9,995	As RIA is a Phillipine coompany designing for an international market, I'm going to go ahead and guess the 22 TCM dodges some odd regulations in some area I am not familiar with. Maybe the 5.7 being a "military" cartridge in some country. The cartridge doesn't make much sense at all to me otherwise. Sure guys with 40+ handguns will buy one as a range toy, but that doesn't make a carry gun in the US commercially viable. Where does the 22 TCM hold any advantage over already available platforms? I realized a few years ago I was going to have to make these oddball guns if I ever wanted to hold them in my hands. In the last month I have machined, tungsten, lead, inconel, and a half dozen alloys of stainless and aluminum. None of it for firearms, but it will be before long. Who wants an inconel lower?

December 14, 2014, 03:22 PM	#31
Skans Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2008 Posts: 11,132	I don't see any market for the 22TCM. But, I do think the public has had a big influence in keeping 10mm alive and well. Despite the fact that no government agency uses 10mm, Glock, Tanfoglio, Kimber, Armscor/Rock Island all still make 10mm's.

December 14, 2014, 03:57 PM	#32
tipoc Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2004 Location: Redwood City, Ca. Posts: 4,114	While he was alive Bill Ruger resisted every effort and appeal to produced a revolver in 44 Spl. He stated on more than one occasion that he would never do that because there was no significant market for such a revolver and that the 44 Spl. could be fired from his 44 Magnums so the cost of production for the guns could not be justified. While he was alive Ruger never did produce a handgun in 44 Spl. Letter writing campaigns to Ruger were promoted by gun writers John Taffin and Mike Venturino. But it was only after Bill Sr.s death that Ruger produced a 44 Spl. on their Blackhawk frame that was sold through Davidson's IIRC. A very good gun that I've been wanting to get a hold of. They've made a couple of rounds of them. Chuck Taylor while he was teaching at Thunder Ranch heavily advocated for S&W to re-introduce their fixed site N frame in both 44 Spl. and 45acp for years. A few years back S&W did so as the Model 21-4 and the model 22-4. So campaigns sometimes do work. tipoc

December 14, 2014, 09:52 PM	#34
DPris Member Emeritus Join Date: August 19, 2004 Posts: 7,133	Lipsey's, not Davidsons. Denis

January 10, 2015, 11:47 AM	#36
3kgt2nv Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2012 Location: hudson valley NY Posts: 517	I own a 22tcm and while fun to shoot I think would be pointless in a smaller gun. even the velocity from the rifle to the handgun looses a good bit in performance I would hate to see it in a small defensive gun. it would prob be down in the neighbor hood of +p 9mm area. which is already available and cheaper. personally I would like to see other manufacturers offer chambering in it in such guns like a ruger Blackhawk, or a nice semi auto carbine.