USA Today Article 2/19/13 - Teachers Should Confront Intruder - Page 2

pax · February 21, 2013, 10:54 PM

SPEMack618,

With a door that swings inward, a $2 rubber door stop can be a lifesaver. I keep one in my suitcase for hotel doors too.

pax

tynman · February 21, 2013, 11:04 PM

Pax another good thing she can keep in her class which shouldn't bring attention is wasp spray by her desk. It has about a 25 foot spray and its a straight stream aim for the eyes and face should blind the person for a good time for her and the kids to get out..

I have a lot of friends and family as teachers (including my wife) So we are talking about these kinds of things all the time trying to figure out new weapons that can be used to protect them and there students.

pax · February 21, 2013, 11:17 PM

We talked about that -- but with elementary kids, she didn't think it was a good idea to have a poison within reach.

pax

zxcvbob · February 21, 2013, 11:39 PM

Quote:

One wall of the classroom has knee-to-ceiling windows. She has visualized breaking one of those windows with a chair, and has a heavy rug from the classroom that she could throw over the opening to keep anyone from getting cut as they climb out, if they need to flee for any reason.

Windows that big might be tempered glass. Have her get a spring-loaded center punch to break it. They are about $5 and about the size of pencil. (useful for starting wood screws too)

What kind of door knob? Maybe some way slip a 2x6 with a slot in it over/through the door handle and wedge it against the door frame? (would be a lot easier if the door had steel hooks attached to to accept a 2x4) This could be a lot faster and stronger than using para-cord. OTOH, it could be used by a crazy student to barricade himself in the room.

lcpiper · February 22, 2013, 12:39 PM

It's good news.

Some are right, they are realizing they might have to fight to keep their life.

They are realizing someone else might not be able to do it for them, or stop it before it happens.

It puts the burden where it belongs, where they have deluded themselves into thinking it shouldn't have to be ... but it is.

Now once they face the fact that they might have to fight an armed assailant with a pair of scissors, maybe the sheep will grow claws and demand something more effective and face the realization that self defense means defending yourself.

It's high time folks pulled their heads out of the sand and woke up to smell the coffee.

Glenn E. Meyer · February 22, 2013, 04:07 PM

Maybe those are steps in the right direction. I certainly agree with the well thought out processes that Pax mentioned.

I do worry that such well thought out plans will be used as excuses for why we don't need carry. I've heard that thought.

But I agree you should plan within your given parameters.

**Spats McGee** · February 22, 2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pax

With a door that swings inward, a $2 rubber door stop can be a lifesaver. I keep one in my suitcase for hotel doors too.

When I saw this, all I could think was "D'oh! Why didn't I think of that?"

From time to time, my wife takes on work as an adjunct instructor at a nearby university. I'll be investing $2 before she returns to that job.

Thank you, pax.

pnac · February 22, 2013, 04:58 PM

When seconds count ...! Actually, after allowing teachers to be armed, this is not a bad idea. My fear is that this will be sold as a total solution instead of another tool.

Quote:

Public Schools Installing ‘Panic Buttons’
February 21, 2013 11:39 AM

Adam Lanza, Marietta Public Schools, panic buttons, sandy hook elementary school
MARIETTA, Ga. (CBS Atlanta) — Marietta Public Schools have added “panic buttons” to its schools in response to the tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.

WGCL-TV reports that these “panic buttons” will immediately place a call to 911 when pushed by school officials.

http://atlanta.cbslocal.com/2013/02/...panic-buttons/

Double Naught Spy · February 22, 2013, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Yes, I summarized because I think spending time to look for a weapon is pretty close to a no win scenario.

I am sorry you feel that way. If you think you will be defeated because you don't have a gun, then I have to believe you. With such a mindset, that makes you a predetermined victim.

Being without a gun may certainly be a disadvantage, but there is no reason to believe it must be a no-win scenario. Too many people have been victorious in no-win scenarios.

ltc444 · February 22, 2013, 10:03 PM

I will repeat my advice on one of the best nonlethal and readily available weapons which can be effective in defeating an assailant.

A standard ABC Dry Chemical Fire Extinguisher.

They are located every where and easily accessible.

The chemical is caustic.

When it gets in the eyes it cause immediate pain and tearing. if not washed out it can cause permanent damage to the eyes up to blindness.

When inhaled it causes asthma like symptoms including uncontrolled coughing.

When ingested it causes burning to the throat, gauging and can cause vomiting

NOTE: Except for the vomiting and permanent eye damage, I have experienced the effects personally.

Anyone of these events will severely limit the attackers ability to continue the attack.

To employ the Fire Extinguisher.

Assume a low defensive position ( preferably behind cover) about 15' from the entry point. This allows the agent to form a cloud but still has a solid stream.

Aim at the by face. Sweep rapidly from side to side. This disperses the agent and creates a cloud which is easily inhaled. The stream will coat the face and eyes.

The fire extinguisher is a good second choice when my 1911 is not available.

Aristides · February 23, 2013, 12:00 AM

Last week, in my city's newspaper (Louisville Courier Journall), there was an article about teachers being trained to deal with attackers. One of the suggestions was that they throw iPads.

I think the fire extinquisher idea is better.

But, alas, as soon as the authorities realize that these items can be used as weapons, they will quickly become illegal, or so tightly regulated that they will be of marginal effectiveness.

Students will only be allowed to use iPads that weigh 10 oz or less, and any fire extinguisher that is shaped like a bomb will be prohibited.

ltc444 · February 24, 2013, 12:16 PM

Another use of the Fire Extinguisher which I failed to mention, though I do not prefer it, is as smoke screen.

Smoke has, one study by the military reduces the effectiveness of aimed by as much a 90%. The reduction varies by the amount of the smoke and the ability of the shooter.

SPEMack618 · February 24, 2013, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pax

SPEMack618,

With a door that swings inward, a $2 rubber door stop can be a lifesaver. I keep one in my suitcase for hotel doors too.

pax

Pax,

Mentioned this to my Mom friday before I left for drill, she then produced one from the junk box that all teachers seem to have. Good deal.

Thanks again.

February 21, 2013, 10:54 PM	#26
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	SPEMack618, With a door that swings inward, a $2 rubber door stop can be a lifesaver. I keep one in my suitcase for hotel doors too. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

February 21, 2013, 11:17 PM	#28
pax Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2000 Location: In a state of flux Posts: 7,520	We talked about that -- but with elementary kids, she didn't think it was a good idea to have a poison within reach. pax __________________ Kathy Jackson My personal website: Cornered Cat

February 22, 2013, 12:39 PM	#30
lcpiper Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2011 Posts: 1,405	It's good news. Some are right, they are realizing they might have to fight to keep their life. They are realizing someone else might not be able to do it for them, or stop it before it happens. It puts the burden where it belongs, where they have deluded themselves into thinking it shouldn't have to be ... but it is. Now once they face the fact that they might have to fight an armed assailant with a pair of scissors, maybe the sheep will grow claws and demand something more effective and face the realization that self defense means defending yourself. It's high time folks pulled their heads out of the sand and woke up to smell the coffee. __________________ Colt M1911, AR-15 \| S&W Model 19, Model 27\| SIG P238 \| Berreta 85B Cheetah \| Ruger Blackhawk .357MAG, Bearcat "Shopkeeper" .22LR\| Remington Marine Magnum SP 12GA., Model 700 SPS .223

February 22, 2013, 04:07 PM	#31
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Maybe those are steps in the right direction. I certainly agree with the well thought out processes that Pax mentioned. I do worry that such well thought out plans will be used as excuses for why we don't need carry. I've heard that thought. But I agree you should plan within your given parameters. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

February 23, 2013, 12:00 AM	#36
Aristides Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2008 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 352	Fire Extinguishers and IPads to be Regulated Last week, in my city's newspaper (Louisville Courier Journall), there was an article about teachers being trained to deal with attackers. One of the suggestions was that they throw iPads. I think the fire extinquisher idea is better. But, alas, as soon as the authorities realize that these items can be used as weapons, they will quickly become illegal, or so tightly regulated that they will be of marginal effectiveness. Students will only be allowed to use iPads that weigh 10 oz or less, and any fire extinguisher that is shaped like a bomb will be prohibited. __________________ If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back...Regina Brett ------ The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else...Dr. Adrian Rogers

February 21, 2013, 11:04 PM	#27
tynman Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Location: NJ Posts: 361	Pax another good thing she can keep in her class which shouldn't bring attention is wasp spray by her desk. It has about a 25 foot spray and its a straight stream aim for the eyes and face should blind the person for a good time for her and the kids to get out.. I have a lot of friends and family as teachers (including my wife) So we are talking about these kinds of things all the time trying to figure out new weapons that can be used to protect them and there students.

February 22, 2013, 10:03 PM	#35
ltc444 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Location: Vernon AZ Posts: 1,195	I will repeat my advice on one of the best nonlethal and readily available weapons which can be effective in defeating an assailant. A standard ABC Dry Chemical Fire Extinguisher. They are located every where and easily accessible. The chemical is caustic. When it gets in the eyes it cause immediate pain and tearing. if not washed out it can cause permanent damage to the eyes up to blindness. When inhaled it causes asthma like symptoms including uncontrolled coughing. When ingested it causes burning to the throat, gauging and can cause vomiting NOTE: Except for the vomiting and permanent eye damage, I have experienced the effects personally. Anyone of these events will severely limit the attackers ability to continue the attack. To employ the Fire Extinguisher. Assume a low defensive position ( preferably behind cover) about 15' from the entry point. This allows the agent to form a cloud but still has a solid stream. Aim at the by face. Sweep rapidly from side to side. This disperses the agent and creates a cloud which is easily inhaled. The stream will coat the face and eyes. The fire extinguisher is a good second choice when my 1911 is not available.

February 24, 2013, 12:16 PM	#37
ltc444 Senior Member Join Date: March 3, 2011 Location: Vernon AZ Posts: 1,195	Another use of the Fire Extinguisher which I failed to mention, though I do not prefer it, is as smoke screen. Smoke has, one study by the military reduces the effectiveness of aimed by as much a 90%. The reduction varies by the amount of the smoke and the ability of the shooter.