Private sale out of state (and a more specific question)

Bradleygt · May 19, 2011, 11:46 PM

Im sure this has been asked a thousand times and I've searched and found most of the info I need, but have one specific question that is just relevant to my specific situation. Also note that this is my first firearm purchase ever. I have fired many guns of relatives and friends, I've just never owned one myself.

I just moved out of state last week. A buddy of mine back in Texas is selling me an AK-74 but I wanted to wait until after I got moved so that I didnt have to travel cross country with it in my possession in the car, just not knowing the laws from state to state. He is ready to ship it to me and I've payed him already (paypal). I understand it has to be shipped to an FFL here in Wisconsin. Once the FFL receives it, I must submit a background check through them, correct? And I understand that with rifles I should be able to walk out with it that day also?

My main concern is this. I have not yet got my drivers licence changed because I haven't yet received any bills to show proof of residency to the DMV. Does my ID have to be a Wisconsin ID or can I pick it up still with my Texas ID? it will be several weeks before I'm able to change my licence over still and I was planning on hitting the range next week if possible.

Also, if it's not allowed for me to pick it up, should I maybe have him address it to my brother-in-law (through the FFL of course) who lives here and make him the receiver, and then transfer it over to myself through an in-state private transfer once my licence gets changed?

Kind of confusing situation for me, I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. Thanks for any information you can provide and I apologize if this is a totally redundant thread. Thanks!

dogtown tom · May 20, 2011, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Bradleygt
I just moved out of state last week. A buddy of mine back in Texas is selling me an AK-74 but I wanted to wait until after I got moved so that I didnt have to travel cross country with it in my possession in the car, just not knowing the laws from state to state. He is ready to ship it to me and I've payed him already (paypal). I understand it has to be shipped to an FFL here in Wisconsin. Once the FFL receives it, I must submit a background check through them, correct?

You'll complete a Form 4473 and the dealer will run the FBI NICS background check.

Quote:

And I understand that with rifles I should be able to walk out with it that day also?

If you get a "proceed" on your NICS check....yes.

Quote:

My main concern is this. I have not yet got my drivers licence changed because I haven't yet received any bills to show proof of residency to the DMV. Does my ID have to be a Wisconsin ID or can I pick it up still with my Texas ID? it will be several weeks before I'm able to change my licence over still and I was planning on hitting the range next week if possible.

Federal law allows out of state residents to acquire rifles and shotguns from a licensed dealer. BUT.......you are no longer a resident of Texas and cannot truthfully answer "Texas" as your state of residence on the 4473. Federal law does allow for "alternate documentation" if government issued photo identification does not show current residence address....but that would be utility bills, tax documents, etc that you don't have.

Quote:

Also, if it's not allowed for me to pick it up, should I maybe have him ship it to my brother-in-law who lives here and then transfer it over to myself once my licence gets changed?

Uh........don't even think about this. It is a violation of Federal law to ship a firearm interstate to a nonlicensee. Your friend AND yoour BIL would be cellmates. The seller can ONLY ship it to a licensed dealer for transfer to YOU. If he ships it to a Wisconsin dealer for transfer to your BIL.....another Federal crime. It's called a straw purchase as your BIL is not the actual buyer. You and your BIL would be cellmates.

Just get a Wisconsin DL ASAP.

Bradleygt · May 20, 2011, 12:29 AM

Haha yeah I realized after I posted that I should have wrote to ship in my BILs name through the FFL and not directly to him. Edited that for future responses.

Yeah, Wisconsin requires that you show a bill of some sort or an active local bank account over 30 days old as proof of residency. They, from what I understand, won't take a forwarded piece of mail or something like that. It has to be a bill or a paystub (which I also won't receive for a while because my first check will be a handwritten check since direct deposit has a one cycle waiting period)

Okay, good to know all of the other legalities. I imagine that going the ship to BIL through the FFL would technically work in theory, just because the FFL wouldn't have to know that it was not actually for my BIL, but there is no possible way I want to make any mistakes in the gun purchasing process!!

Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into getting an ID ASAP!

Bradleygt · May 20, 2011, 01:27 AM

"Federal law does allow for "alternate documentation" if government issued photo identification does not show current residence address....but that would be utility bills, tax documents, etc that you don't have."

another question.... i did just open a local bank account today. under federal law do you know if that would work as alternate documentation? it technically does with the DMV but it just has to be 30 days old. this may be my ticket to getting my AK sooner than waiting on a new driver license!

thanks again. i appreciate the quick reply.

docnyt · May 20, 2011, 07:10 AM

Unfortunately what may be legal under Federal law may not fly with a local FFL. They are not required to sell or transfer a gun even if it's completely legal to do so.

Best thing to do is ask a local FFL what they would deem as acceptable ID, explain your situation, and go from there. It's better if you develop a good relationship with a local gun store anyway. They may have a range where you can rent an AK and whet your appetite should the transfer take longer than expected.

natman · May 20, 2011, 07:39 AM

From the instructions on Form 4473:

Quote:

INSTRUCTIONS TO TRANSFEROR
1. KNOW YOUR CUSTOMER: Before a licensee may sell or deliver a firearm to a nonlicensee, the licensee must establish the identity, place of residence, and age of the buyer. The buyer must provide a valid government-issued photo identification to the seller that contains the buyer’s name, residence address, and date of birth. The licensee must record the type, identification number, and expiration date (if any) of the identification in question 18a. A driver’s license or an identification card issued by a State in place of a license is acceptable.

Bank accounts, utility bills, etc to establish residency in the state are a requirement for non-US citizens in addition to the photo ID mentioned above.

Quote:

2. SALE OF FIREARMS TO LEGAL ALIENS (PART 1): A buyer who is not a citizen of the United States must provide additional documentation (beyond a valid government-issued photo identification that contains the buyer’s name, residence address, and date of birth) to establish that he or she has resided in a State for at least 90 days prior to the date of the sale. See Definition 5. Examples of appropriate documents to establish State residency are utility bills from each of the last 3 months prior to the sale or a lease agreement which demonstrates 90 days of residency prior to the sale.

The OP is pretty much going to be in legal limbo until he gets a DL in his new state.

**Spats McGee** · May 20, 2011, 08:24 AM

Get your DL changed, and have it shipped to an FFL in your name. That's really the easiest thing, and the least risky, legally. I don't know how long a DL takes in Wisconsin, but it's shorter than jail sentences for felonies.

May 19, 2011, 11:46 PM	#1
Bradleygt Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 3	Private sale out of state (and a more specific question) Im sure this has been asked a thousand times and I've searched and found most of the info I need, but have one specific question that is just relevant to my specific situation. Also note that this is my first firearm purchase ever. I have fired many guns of relatives and friends, I've just never owned one myself. I just moved out of state last week. A buddy of mine back in Texas is selling me an AK-74 but I wanted to wait until after I got moved so that I didnt have to travel cross country with it in my possession in the car, just not knowing the laws from state to state. He is ready to ship it to me and I've payed him already (paypal). I understand it has to be shipped to an FFL here in Wisconsin. Once the FFL receives it, I must submit a background check through them, correct? And I understand that with rifles I should be able to walk out with it that day also? My main concern is this. I have not yet got my drivers licence changed because I haven't yet received any bills to show proof of residency to the DMV. Does my ID have to be a Wisconsin ID or can I pick it up still with my Texas ID? it will be several weeks before I'm able to change my licence over still and I was planning on hitting the range next week if possible. Also, if it's not allowed for me to pick it up, should I maybe have him address it to my brother-in-law (through the FFL of course) who lives here and make him the receiver, and then transfer it over to myself through an in-state private transfer once my licence gets changed? Kind of confusing situation for me, I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing. Thanks for any information you can provide and I apologize if this is a totally redundant thread. Thanks! Last edited by Bradleygt; May 20, 2011 at 12:18 AM.

May 20, 2011, 12:29 AM	#3
Bradleygt Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 3	Haha yeah I realized after I posted that I should have wrote to ship in my BILs name through the FFL and not directly to him. Edited that for future responses. Yeah, Wisconsin requires that you show a bill of some sort or an active local bank account over 30 days old as proof of residency. They, from what I understand, won't take a forwarded piece of mail or something like that. It has to be a bill or a paystub (which I also won't receive for a while because my first check will be a handwritten check since direct deposit has a one cycle waiting period) Okay, good to know all of the other legalities. I imagine that going the ship to BIL through the FFL would technically work in theory, just because the FFL wouldn't have to know that it was not actually for my BIL, but there is no possible way I want to make any mistakes in the gun purchasing process!! Thanks for the info. I'll have to look into getting an ID ASAP!

May 20, 2011, 01:27 AM	#4
Bradleygt Junior Member Join Date: May 19, 2011 Posts: 3	"Federal law does allow for "alternate documentation" if government issued photo identification does not show current residence address....but that would be utility bills, tax documents, etc that you don't have." another question.... i did just open a local bank account today. under federal law do you know if that would work as alternate documentation? it technically does with the DMV but it just has to be 30 days old. this may be my ticket to getting my AK sooner than waiting on a new driver license! thanks again. i appreciate the quick reply.

May 20, 2011, 07:10 AM	#5
docnyt Senior Member Join Date: March 23, 2011 Location: HeArT of DiXiE Posts: 154	Unfortunately what may be legal under Federal law may not fly with a local FFL. They are not required to sell or transfer a gun even if it's completely legal to do so. Best thing to do is ask a local FFL what they would deem as acceptable ID, explain your situation, and go from there. It's better if you develop a good relationship with a local gun store anyway. They may have a range where you can rent an AK and whet your appetite should the transfer take longer than expected.

May 20, 2011, 08:24 AM	#7
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	Get your DL changed, and have it shipped to an FFL in your name. That's really the easiest thing, and the least risky, legally. I don't know how long a DL takes in Wisconsin, but it's shorter than jail sentences for felonies.