223 Rem twist rates vs light vs heavy bullets

AZAK · October 22, 2013, 07:16 PM

I am considering picking up a new .223 bolt, just for fun - already have one in 1-12 that shoots 1/4 MOA when I do, and I hand load for .223.

The question is do I want a 1-10 or a 1-8 twist? I normally shoot between 40 and 60 grain bullets, but am considering heavier.

What I don't want to have happen is to have my 40 grainers come apart right out of the barrel! Any experience in this realm? What say you? Thanks in advance!

allaroundhunter · October 22, 2013, 07:43 PM

A 1:8 will handle heavier 77 gr bullets as well as the lighter ones.

AZAK · October 22, 2013, 08:30 PM

What about the lighter varmint bullets? I have read about them - in one of my reloading manuals - coming apart when they are approaching a third of a million rpm in the faster barrels.

Would this be an argument for the 1-10 vs the 1-8?

4runnerman · October 22, 2013, 09:09 PM

Get a 1 in 9 and shoot them all

A 223 is a very accurate rifle. You have a 1 in 12, So go for a 1 in 8, shoot heavy bullets a distance. No-Really though a 1 in 9 will suffice for the heavier bullets very well. I shoot 75's out of my 1 in 9 just fine. Single load,but It's just for paper punching any how. Your considering heavier for what purpose?. Distance?.

trg42wraglefragle · October 22, 2013, 10:46 PM

1:8 will stabilize 50 and 55gr bullets, sometimes down to the 40gr ones, and will get you up into the 75gr range too.
That's the twist I'd go for.

AZAK · October 23, 2013, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Your considering heavier for what purpose?. Distance?

Just for thefunofit/pushingtheenvelope. (sidenoteandnod: Haven't actually seen Ken for a while; don't get into ANC very often, prefer to stay in Alaska!)

No real reason in particular, just want to stretch my legs a bit; try something new/different. See exactly what I can load and make work...

Anyone want to promote the 1-10 over the 1-8?

Jim243 · October 23, 2013, 02:53 AM

I shoot 50, 53, 55, 60, 62 & the 75 grain 223 Hornady V-Man & A-Max with a 1:9 twist and no issue at all. There are heavier bullets out there for the 223 but I can not comment on them. As to light bullets, I would not go under 50 grain with a 1:9 twist and definitely not use 40 grain bullets. (but you might get away with it depending on how well made the bullet is.) I have had 40 grain bullets come apart with the same gun. It makes your target look like it was shot with a shotgun.

Jim

4runnerman · October 23, 2013, 05:16 AM

If stretching your legs a bit means distance- Yes I would go with the 1 in 9. It will shoot the 75 very easy. Like I said you will have to single load them,but not a big deal.

603Country · October 23, 2013, 06:14 AM

I shoot the 40 gr Nosler BT in my Ruger, that has a 1 in 9 twist. The bullet shoots great - accurate and deadly to coyotes.

jmr40 · October 23, 2013, 07:08 AM

I've had rifles with 7,8 and 9 twists. All are currently 1:7. They shoot 50 gr bullets just fine. I probably wouldn't shoot anything lighter. I wouldn't touch a 1:10 unless you never plan on shooting anything heavier than 55 gr.

The 1:7 is basically for 55 gr and up
1:10 or slower twists are best for really lightweights 55 gr and less.
1:8 or 1:9 are both a compromise and will probably shoot all but the very heaviest pretty well.

Rimfire5 · October 23, 2013, 08:24 AM

I have a CZ 527 Varmint with a 1:9 twist and it shoots shoots 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets as well as the 52 grain bullets so the 1:9 will handle bullets down to 40 very accurately.

N133 powder 40 gr Nosler BT average of .299 for 15 groups with a best load of average of 0.257.
N133 powder 52 gr Sierra SMK # 1410 average of 0.383 for 79 groups with a best load average of 0.201.
I just started shooting N133 powder and it tops my list of performance powders with the lighter bullets in this .223.
H335 powder 40 gr Nosler BT average of 0.404 for 82 groups with a best load average of 0.317.
H335 powder 52 gr Sierra SMK # 1410 average of 0.421 for 62 groups with a best load average of 0.314.
H335 powder 52 gr Berger # 22408 average of 0.441 for 21 groups with a best load average of 0.206.
H335 was my mainstay powder for bullets under 55 grains until I found some N133 Vihta Vuori powder.

The CZ 527 doesn't do badly with heavier grain bullets either.
H4895 powder 55 gr Berger #22410 average 0.467 for 176 groups with a best load average of 0.399.
H4895 powder 63 grain Sierra # 1370 average of 0.483 for 60 groups with a best load average of 0.358.
H4895 powder 69 gr Sierra # 1380 average of 0.499 for 27 groups with a best load average of 0.378.

It even averaged 0.672 for 75 grain Hornady Boat Tail bullets with R-15 powder. I haven't tried different powders or Sierra, Nosler, or Berger bullets with the 75s so I can't really tell if it would 75s shoot those better than that one test with Hornady 75s.

AZAK · October 27, 2013, 03:23 AM

Thanks to all for sharing your experiences and thoughts! A wealth of information can be found here.

I ended up getting a 1-10 Tikka T3 lite in .223. According to their website they now only offer 1-8 (and still possibly 1-12?) Since I really like my Tikka in 30-06 I figured why not. I will load for the 1-10 and see what I see.

The beauty of stepping up in small increments is that if I still want to go heavier, a new reason for a new rifle in the future! This particular rifle will be more for walking around and for the fun of it type of rifle. (In a way a "trainer/lighter chambering rifle for/than the 30-06.) Generally carry something much larger than a .223 when out and about here/Alaska.

A large part of my decision was considering the 40 grainers. I like shooting the little ones fast and accurately; and don't want to lose that ability.

And regarding 1-9 Savages, I have had Savage with and without the Accutrigger. Just really not a fan of either. To my finger the Tikka trigger is soooo much better out of the box. And I just like the balance and the way that a Tikka shoulders.

But as always:
YMMV

4runnerman · October 27, 2013, 07:42 AM

AZAK-- Tikkas are awesome rifles for sure. Just wondering here,, What was it about the accutrigger you did not like?. I have 6 Savages with the Accutrigger and to me you just can't beat it. Crisp clean break,no creep and can be set to what ever tension you want. Like I said, Just want your input.
Thanks

AZAK · October 27, 2013, 10:24 PM

I have been spoiled with Jewel and Volquartsen triggers, not to mention some very finely done smith jobs over the years in riles and handguns.

I have not grown fond of the "do-hick-us" sticking out of the trigger approach to refining triggers. Not fond of Glocks either; and I have owned three, with one being my main carry for over seven years.

Perhaps I am old fashioned, but my last Savage with the Accutrigger could be "set" by pulling the trigger (and NOT the "dingus") then having the "dingus" act as a hair trigger. Again, not the way that I think that a trigger should work.

All that I have to do is to pull a Jewel trigger, or a Tikka, or a Volquartsen, or one of my beautifully done Colts, and it is not hard at all for me to walk right on by a Savage.

But, that is the beauty of life, there are Savages and Tikkas and SA and DA and Jewels and firearms that lawyers love and ... and we get to pick and choose what we want!

Enjoy yours!

October 22, 2013, 07:16 PM	#1
AZAK Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed Posts: 2,123	223 Rem twist rates vs light vs heavy bullets I am considering picking up a new .223 bolt, just for fun - already have one in 1-12 that shoots 1/4 MOA when I do, and I hand load for .223. The question is do I want a 1-10 or a 1-8 twist? I normally shoot between 40 and 60 grain bullets, but am considering heavier. What I don't want to have happen is to have my 40 grainers come apart right out of the barrel! Any experience in this realm? What say you? Thanks in advance! __________________ The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation... Elementary Education. Now, go figure...

October 22, 2013, 08:30 PM	#3
AZAK Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed Posts: 2,123	What about the lighter varmint bullets? I have read about them - in one of my reloading manuals - coming apart when they are approaching a third of a million rpm in the faster barrels. Would this be an argument for the 1-10 vs the 1-8? __________________ The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation... Elementary Education. Now, go figure...

October 22, 2013, 09:09 PM	#4
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	Get a 1 in 9 and shoot them all A 223 is a very accurate rifle. You have a 1 in 12, So go for a 1 in 8, shoot heavy bullets a distance. No-Really though a 1 in 9 will suffice for the heavier bullets very well. I shoot 75's out of my 1 in 9 just fine. Single load,but It's just for paper punching any how. Your considering heavier for what purpose?. Distance?. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional Last edited by 4runnerman; October 22, 2013 at 09:19 PM.

October 23, 2013, 02:53 AM	#7
Jim243 Senior Member Join Date: January 5, 2009 Location: Just off Route 66 Posts: 5,067	I shoot 50, 53, 55, 60, 62 & the 75 grain 223 Hornady V-Man & A-Max with a 1:9 twist and no issue at all. There are heavier bullets out there for the 223 but I can not comment on them. As to light bullets, I would not go under 50 grain with a 1:9 twist and definitely not use 40 grain bullets. (but you might get away with it depending on how well made the bullet is.) I have had 40 grain bullets come apart with the same gun. It makes your target look like it was shot with a shotgun. Jim __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

October 23, 2013, 05:16 AM	#8
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	If stretching your legs a bit means distance- Yes I would go with the 1 in 9. It will shoot the 75 very easy. Like I said you will have to single load them,but not a big deal. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

October 22, 2013, 07:43 PM	#2
allaroundhunter Senior Member Join Date: May 6, 2012 Location: Southeast Texas Posts: 1,670	223 Rem twist rates vs light vs heavy bullets A 1:8 will handle heavier 77 gr bullets as well as the lighter ones.

October 22, 2013, 10:46 PM	#5
trg42wraglefragle Senior Member Join Date: April 21, 2008 Location: new zealand Posts: 856	1:8 will stabilize 50 and 55gr bullets, sometimes down to the 40gr ones, and will get you up into the 75gr range too. That's the twist I'd go for.

October 23, 2013, 06:14 AM	#9
603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 3,998	I shoot the 40 gr Nosler BT in my Ruger, that has a 1 in 9 twist. The bullet shoots great - accurate and deadly to coyotes.

October 23, 2013, 07:08 AM	#10
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 10,805	I've had rifles with 7,8 and 9 twists. All are currently 1:7. They shoot 50 gr bullets just fine. I probably wouldn't shoot anything lighter. I wouldn't touch a 1:10 unless you never plan on shooting anything heavier than 55 gr. The 1:7 is basically for 55 gr and up 1:10 or slower twists are best for really lightweights 55 gr and less. 1:8 or 1:9 are both a compromise and will probably shoot all but the very heaviest pretty well.

October 23, 2013, 08:24 AM	#11
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 922	I have a CZ 527 Varmint with a 1:9 twist and it shoots shoots 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets as well as the 52 grain bullets so the 1:9 will handle bullets down to 40 very accurately. N133 powder 40 gr Nosler BT average of .299 for 15 groups with a best load of average of 0.257. N133 powder 52 gr Sierra SMK # 1410 average of 0.383 for 79 groups with a best load average of 0.201. I just started shooting N133 powder and it tops my list of performance powders with the lighter bullets in this .223. H335 powder 40 gr Nosler BT average of 0.404 for 82 groups with a best load average of 0.317. H335 powder 52 gr Sierra SMK # 1410 average of 0.421 for 62 groups with a best load average of 0.314. H335 powder 52 gr Berger # 22408 average of 0.441 for 21 groups with a best load average of 0.206. H335 was my mainstay powder for bullets under 55 grains until I found some N133 Vihta Vuori powder. The CZ 527 doesn't do badly with heavier grain bullets either. H4895 powder 55 gr Berger #22410 average 0.467 for 176 groups with a best load average of 0.399. H4895 powder 63 grain Sierra # 1370 average of 0.483 for 60 groups with a best load average of 0.358. H4895 powder 69 gr Sierra # 1380 average of 0.499 for 27 groups with a best load average of 0.378. It even averaged 0.672 for 75 grain Hornady Boat Tail bullets with R-15 powder. I haven't tried different powders or Sierra, Nosler, or Berger bullets with the 75s so I can't really tell if it would 75s shoot those better than that one test with Hornady 75s.

October 27, 2013, 03:23 AM	#12
AZAK Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed Posts: 2,123	Thanks to all for sharing your experiences and thoughts! A wealth of information can be found here. I ended up getting a 1-10 Tikka T3 lite in .223. According to their website they now only offer 1-8 (and still possibly 1-12?) Since I really like my Tikka in 30-06 I figured why not. I will load for the 1-10 and see what I see. The beauty of stepping up in small increments is that if I still want to go heavier, a new reason for a new rifle in the future! This particular rifle will be more for walking around and for the fun of it type of rifle. (In a way a "trainer/lighter chambering rifle for/than the 30-06.) Generally carry something much larger than a .223 when out and about here/Alaska. A large part of my decision was considering the 40 grainers. I like shooting the little ones fast and accurately; and don't want to lose that ability. And regarding 1-9 Savages, I have had Savage with and without the Accutrigger. Just really not a fan of either. To my finger the Tikka trigger is soooo much better out of the box. And I just like the balance and the way that a Tikka shoulders. But as always: YMMV __________________ The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation... Elementary Education. Now, go figure...

October 27, 2013, 07:42 AM	#13
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	AZAK-- Tikkas are awesome rifles for sure. Just wondering here,, What was it about the accutrigger you did not like?. I have 6 Savages with the Accutrigger and to me you just can't beat it. Crisp clean break,no creep and can be set to what ever tension you want. Like I said, Just want your input. Thanks __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

October 27, 2013, 10:24 PM	#14
AZAK Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: the object towards which the action of the sea is directed Posts: 2,123	I have been spoiled with Jewel and Volquartsen triggers, not to mention some very finely done smith jobs over the years in riles and handguns. I have not grown fond of the "do-hick-us" sticking out of the trigger approach to refining triggers. Not fond of Glocks either; and I have owned three, with one being my main carry for over seven years. Perhaps I am old fashioned, but my last Savage with the Accutrigger could be "set" by pulling the trigger (and NOT the "dingus") then having the "dingus" act as a hair trigger. Again, not the way that I think that a trigger should work. All that I have to do is to pull a Jewel trigger, or a Tikka, or a Volquartsen, or one of my beautifully done Colts, and it is not hard at all for me to walk right on by a Savage. But, that is the beauty of life, there are Savages and Tikkas and SA and DA and Jewels and firearms that lawyers love and ... and we get to pick and choose what we want! Enjoy yours! __________________ The lowest paid college major/degree in this country after graduation... Elementary Education. Now, go figure...

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