What state is best for gun owners

oberkommando · November 13, 1999, 06:13 AM

I would like opinions as to what state you think is best for gun rights without regard for employment opportunities. I have thought Idaho is one of best if not best, their state constitution is very clear about infringing or restricting.

My state of Kali is infested with liberal freaks and One day I would like to escape to another state with a few like minded individuals I know. Perhaps Frisco and LA will slide into the pacific and foat over to china after a major quake, oh to dream.

I've given up on this states judicial system to ever follow the Constitution. There's a time for bilge pumps and a time for life boats.

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The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON

Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt.

A RAND

deanf · November 13, 1999, 06:40 AM

Well, Washington is relatively good. We have a shall issue CCW system, and a very liberal one at that.

No license required to buy any gun, just to carry a handgun. Only handguns purchased through a dealer have to be registered. No other registration schemes. No restrictions on private party sales. State preemption of all firearms laws.

If you have to smoke someone in self defense, you are unlikely to be prosecuted. We have had some "questionable" self defense shootings around here in the past few years, and no one has been prosecuted.

We don't have open carry, and we do have a ban on ownership of full auto guns, but other than that it's pretty good.

I must say I, however, that I see us going the way of California in the next 10 to 20 years. Just like the rest of the country.

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“The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited November 13, 1999).]

oberkommando · November 13, 1999, 06:52 AM

Thanks for late night reply Deanf I know this disease of liberalism is spreading and ya cant run forever, I just need a little more time before I stop running.

Have a friend who has one of his evil guns up there in moses lake, its too evil for kali. So private party transfers are paperless up there?

volky · November 13, 1999, 07:42 AM

Although I live in New Jersey, I think the best state would be Vermont. NO permit to purchase or carry. Even someone from out of state can carry concealed without "papers".

Quite a climate change from California. But a lot less riffraf also.

deanf · November 13, 1999, 09:24 AM

Paperz? Vhat paperz?

Yes, private party transfers are paperless. I don't think they are even addressed in the state laws.

If you'd like to review the laws, go to access.wa.gov, find the link for RCWs (Revised Code of Washington) and look under Title 9, Firearms.

Also, there are very few restrictions on where you can CCW. Basically it's courthouses, and the restricted access areas of jails and police facilities, or any place a police prisoner might be held. If you have occasion to visit these facilities, they must check your gun for you, and they are responsible financially if anything happens to your piece while it's in their custody. There are no laws addressing CCW on private property, but that also means that any private property owner could eject you if they didn't like CCW.

[This message has been edited by deanf (edited November 13, 1999).]

Jeff OTMG · November 13, 1999, 12:44 PM

The biggest and best state of the United States (not just for guns) is Texas!!! Low prices on guns, great gun shows, shall issue CHL's, good climate (but stay away from the panhandle, I think it might be part of Oklahoma), statewide pre-emption law, all Class III items are legal to have, lethal force is justified in many instances to protect personal and real property (you can even shoot taggers at night), a knife under 5.5" is legal to carry open or concealed, any firearm other than a handgun may be carried open or concealed, loaded or empty, without a permit (if it is a machine gun, SBR, or SBS you better have the tax stamp).

Libertarian · November 13, 1999, 02:17 PM

Up in Alaska, my cousin lets his kids shoot the Texas size guns while the adults carry and shoot the regular ones (too much power for the tykes).

Alaska, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Nevada are all very liberal (the good kind) about guns and the ownership thereof. The one a month BS here in VA and the fact that the state pre-emption laws are ignored by some incorporated cities make this state a C+ to B- by my reckoning.

G-Freeman · November 13, 1999, 03:06 PM

Ouch Jeff OTMG, us Okies do have a reciprocal agreement with Texas on CCW

. You, your gun, and Texas plates are welcome in my town. Some numbers I just pulled from the OSBI web page: (Bear in mind the Republic of Texas has had a CCW law in place longer than us.) Total permits:27,673 Denied:258(0.01%) Pending:2,138 Avg Age:48 Pct. in rural areas:68.47% Agree on the panhandle though. My two years in Amarillo weren't a highlight.

**4V50 Gary** · November 13, 1999, 03:22 PM

Vermont, if you can tolerate the snow and the barren trees for six months of the year. The bright side is that you're close to Springfield, Massachusetts (Springfield Armory National Historic Site, S&W, S&W Academy, Indian Motorcycle Museum, Saratoga Battlefield, Fort William Henry and Ticonderoga, Fort Stanwick, Fort Oswego and Oriskany Battlefield all in NY, Maple Syrup and an abundence of Bullwinkle (just don't hit one in your car).

No CCW required there. If you're a citizen of the US (and not necessarily VT), you can carry.

As they say in Vermont, "Welcome to Vermont...now Go Home!" (My friend who is a cop there told me that one).

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Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

Darthmaum · November 13, 1999, 03:34 PM

I must second what JeffOTMG said about us Texans. It's a place like no other! We also have reciprocity agreements with AR, AZ, and LA. There are about 190,000 CCW's (190,001 now

) in TX and only 758 have been revoked after 4 years.

Libertarian, why don't VA citizens smack those cities upside the head for ignoring the state's pre-emption laws? That's unconscionable...

------------------
"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!

WESHOOT2 · November 13, 1999, 07:06 PM

Living in Vermont, shoot all winter indoor matches, snow is not so bad (BS), no real crime, carry all the time, just not in the courthouses.

Snowed today, was 8 F Thursday morning, don't buy Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream 'cause they support anti-gun leg. with corp. $.

The temp swings are great for ammo testing, though........guns, too.

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

Libertarian · November 13, 1999, 07:50 PM

Well Darthmaum, I was a coplaintiff on a case that went to the VA Supreme court this summer against the City of Alexandria. We lost on appeal.The city has the right to ban CCW from all city property. Now they have to catch me, but if they do, I am some deep doo doo because I do know better.

oberkommando · November 13, 1999, 08:14 PM

Libertarian, better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

Thanks you guys for all the replys.

Jeff OTMG, sound like I'll have to a least visit Texas, as to biggest I'll have to give that to Alaska, thanks for the info I was looking for.

Jeff OTMG · November 13, 1999, 08:25 PM

I am very familiar with Oklahoma, I grew up there. I just turned in my Oklahoma drivers license earlier this year and my truck and 3 of the motorcycles still have Oklahoma plates. In fact I even wrote your concealed carry legislation. At least the first version of it back in 1985. Frank Sherdan from Henrietta was the Senator I worked with but also got Gaylon Stacey and Mark Snyder to co sponsor it. The President of the Senate from Skiatook keep sending it to committee every year and wouldn't let it out. I think he finally died. We tried going through the house first one year, passed 99-5(I think), then got tied up in the Senate committee again. I left in 1991, but Sherdan kept it up. The final version that passed was not mine, but you can still find bits and pieces that I put in.

I figured someone from Alaska would chime in and try to claim to be bigger. Down here in Texas we all know that Alaska is mostly ice and if you melted it Texas would be bigger. Besides, I said United States, Alaska isn't united with the rest of us, Canada is in the way. Alaska was up there to keep Russians from getting the rest of us, lord knows the Canadians wouldn't stop them.

G-Freeman · November 13, 1999, 09:22 PM

Jeff OTMG, you "wrote" the OK concealed carry legislation? Wow! Well all I can say is you have to listen to all of my complaints about what is screwed up about it then!

Libertarian · November 13, 1999, 10:04 PM

Way off topic but... if they melted all the ice, most of Texas would be under water.

tatters · November 13, 1999, 10:14 PM

I live in Indiana, we are a shall issue state, and we also have good reciprocity agreements with other states. The bad part is, Illinois, and Ohio sucks for gun owners. No carry provision in those states. Kentucky to the south and Michigan to the north allow some carry for Indiana permit holders. Our permits cost 10 bucks at the local constabulatory for prints and papers, and 15 bucks sent to the state. The permits the first time take about 6 weeks to get and renewal every 4 years. My renewal only took about a week and a half and is a small, easy to laminate document. I don't mind the state making a little dough for their effort. The only thing is, a fella shouldn't need a document at all to do something the Constitution says he can do anyway.

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You can never have too much ammo!---- Me (being a role model to my 5 year old)

Dan · November 13, 1999, 10:48 PM

My adopted state of Georgia ain't too bad.

Just stay away from the city of Atlanta.

Shall issue CCW, but w/a few vague restrictions, good prices on weapons, a fair number of places to shoot and GA was the first state to pass the law making it illeagle for cities to sue gun mfgs.

Too bad it was after Atlanta filed thier suit.

C'mon down, I've found most folks are pretty receptive to gun owners (even yankees like me)!

------------------
Dan

Si vis pacem para bellum!

Check me out at:
<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm" TARGET=_blank>

www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm</A>
www.mindspring.com/~susdan/GlocksnGoodies.htm

Bulldog · November 14, 1999, 06:44 AM

Jeff & G-Freeman,

Y'all know why Texas doesn't just fall off into the Gulf of Mexico, don't you?

Libertarian · November 14, 1999, 10:24 AM

Dan, Why Atlanta? Do they not honor CCW permits like NYC?

Bulldog, Why?

G-Freeman · November 14, 1999, 11:01 AM

Bulldog, That is just an unsubstantiated rumor. I think the only place they still teach that particularly tired geologic theory is at Texas A&M.

Jeff, contributions you made to the cause here are appreciated.

Patrick Seeber · November 14, 1999, 12:01 PM

I was raised in Arizona and moved to Nevada. Both very firearm friendly.

Both have open carry allowed. Arizona is probably better about this though. When we were setting up the gathering for TFL to shoot in Carson City I was told that although open carry was the law, anyone doing so will get to personally meet the local constabulary - Due to the anticipated high volume of calls, please don't do it. (grin)

CCW is easy to achieve in both states. I only hold Nev CCW so can't speak to AZ CCW. We are only allowed 2 firearms and can't change without requalification with new pistol ($50 give or take plus $15 to get new permit issued.)

NFA firearms are allowed with proper papers.

Many varmits are open season for residents and others! Coyote, black eared rabbits, ground squirrels are on the list of open varmits here in Nev.

Wonder why so many Kali residents are moving here??? That alone will really mess with the laws and drive housing prices through the roof... If you do shop for a house or employment in Nev, you may be wise to be from somewhere else... {grin}

Kinda fun to still be able to have a drink and a SMOKE in the bars while we can...

No, I ain't moving for a while. May have to enter politics, but I don't plan on moving...

[This message has been edited by Patrick Seeber (edited November 14, 1999).]

Jeff OTMG · November 14, 1999, 12:28 PM

G-Freeeman, although I spent a lot of time on the phone with Bob Macy (the DA in OKC) and some state trooper that was shot will on duty, Frank Sherdan is the one who deserves the credit. I left Oklahoma in 1991 and he kept up the fight until he won. Very little of my version was left by the time NRA got through with it. They had a bill to work from that had been passed in other states so Oklahoma used that as its base and just added some of my stuff. Bob Cullison, that was the President of the Senate. If he had not been there the legislation would have passed 10 years earlier.

A little known geologic fact: It is not Oklahoma that keeps Texas attached, but a combination of Iowa channelling through Kansas.

lewis · November 14, 1999, 08:55 PM

Have to get a plug in for Kentucky. We have shall issue permits, no local laws allowed, open carry OK, no paperwork for private transfers, National Gun Day show in Louisville, class III Ok, honor ALL other states permits (new change) and the state legislature is considering a bill to block KY cities from sueing gun manufacturers.

Darthmaum · November 15, 1999, 12:34 AM

Libertarian,

Even if Texas were to be underwater from all of AK's melted ice, it wouldn't last but a few days...it's too friggin' hot!

------------------
"Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!

November 13, 1999, 06:13 AM	#1
oberkommando Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Posts: 1,158	I would like opinions as to what state you think is best for gun rights without regard for employment opportunities. I have thought Idaho is one of best if not best, their state constitution is very clear about infringing or restricting. My state of Kali is infested with liberal freaks and One day I would like to escape to another state with a few like minded individuals I know. Perhaps Frisco and LA will slide into the pacific and foat over to china after a major quake, oh to dream. I've given up on this states judicial system to ever follow the Constitution. There's a time for bilge pumps and a time for life boats. ------------------ The beauty of the second Amendment is that it is not needed until they try to take it. T JEFFERSON Do you really think that we want those laws to be observed? We want them broken. We're after power and we mean it. There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breakings laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced nor objectively interpreted-and you create a nation of law breakers--and then you cash in on guilt. A RAND

November 13, 1999, 06:40 AM	#2
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	Well, Washington is relatively good. We have a shall issue CCW system, and a very liberal one at that. No license required to buy any gun, just to carry a handgun. Only handguns purchased through a dealer have to be registered. No other registration schemes. No restrictions on private party sales. State preemption of all firearms laws. If you have to smoke someone in self defense, you are unlikely to be prosecuted. We have had some "questionable" self defense shootings around here in the past few years, and no one has been prosecuted. We don't have open carry, and we do have a ban on ownership of full auto guns, but other than that it's pretty good. I must say I, however, that I see us going the way of California in the next 10 to 20 years. Just like the rest of the country. ------------------ “The whole of the Bill (of Rights) is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals. ... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.” -Alexander Addison, 1789 [This message has been edited by deanf (edited November 13, 1999).]

November 13, 1999, 06:52 AM	#3
oberkommando Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Posts: 1,158	Thanks for late night reply Deanf I know this disease of liberalism is spreading and ya cant run forever, I just need a little more time before I stop running. Have a friend who has one of his evil guns up there in moses lake, its too evil for kali. So private party transfers are paperless up there?

November 13, 1999, 07:42 AM	#4
volky Member Join Date: February 11, 1999 Location: A yankee who won`t leave NC Posts: 70	Although I live in New Jersey, I think the best state would be Vermont. NO permit to purchase or carry. Even someone from out of state can carry concealed without "papers". Quite a climate change from California. But a lot less riffraf also.

November 13, 1999, 09:24 AM	#5
deanf Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 1999 Location: N47º 12’ x W122º 10' Posts: 1,599	Paperz? Vhat paperz? Yes, private party transfers are paperless. I don't think they are even addressed in the state laws. If you'd like to review the laws, go to access.wa.gov, find the link for RCWs (Revised Code of Washington) and look under Title 9, Firearms. Also, there are very few restrictions on where you can CCW. Basically it's courthouses, and the restricted access areas of jails and police facilities, or any place a police prisoner might be held. If you have occasion to visit these facilities, they must check your gun for you, and they are responsible financially if anything happens to your piece while it's in their custody. There are no laws addressing CCW on private property, but that also means that any private property owner could eject you if they didn't like CCW. [This message has been edited by deanf (edited November 13, 1999).]

November 13, 1999, 12:44 PM	#6
Jeff OTMG Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: OKC, OK & Austin, Tx Posts: 3,707	The biggest and best state of the United States (not just for guns) is Texas!!! Low prices on guns, great gun shows, shall issue CHL's, good climate (but stay away from the panhandle, I think it might be part of Oklahoma), statewide pre-emption law, all Class III items are legal to have, lethal force is justified in many instances to protect personal and real property (you can even shoot taggers at night), a knife under 5.5" is legal to carry open or concealed, any firearm other than a handgun may be carried open or concealed, loaded or empty, without a permit (if it is a machine gun, SBR, or SBS you better have the tax stamp).

November 13, 1999, 02:17 PM	#7
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	Up in Alaska, my cousin lets his kids shoot the Texas size guns while the adults carry and shoot the regular ones (too much power for the tykes). Alaska, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Nevada are all very liberal (the good kind) about guns and the ownership thereof. The one a month BS here in VA and the fact that the state pre-emption laws are ignored by some incorporated cities make this state a C+ to B- by my reckoning.

November 13, 1999, 03:06 PM	#8
G-Freeman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 1999 Posts: 653	Ouch Jeff OTMG, us Okies do have a reciprocal agreement with Texas on CCW . You, your gun, and Texas plates are welcome in my town. Some numbers I just pulled from the OSBI web page: (Bear in mind the Republic of Texas has had a CCW law in place longer than us.) Total permits:27,673 Denied:258(0.01%) Pending:2,138 Avg Age:48 Pct. in rural areas:68.47% Agree on the panhandle though. My two years in Amarillo weren't a highlight.

November 13, 1999, 03:22 PM	#9
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,840	Vermont, if you can tolerate the snow and the barren trees for six months of the year. The bright side is that you're close to Springfield, Massachusetts (Springfield Armory National Historic Site, S&W, S&W Academy, Indian Motorcycle Museum, Saratoga Battlefield, Fort William Henry and Ticonderoga, Fort Stanwick, Fort Oswego and Oriskany Battlefield all in NY, Maple Syrup and an abundence of Bullwinkle (just don't hit one in your car). No CCW required there. If you're a citizen of the US (and not necessarily VT), you can carry. As they say in Vermont, "Welcome to Vermont...now Go Home!" (My friend who is a cop there told me that one). ------------------ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt

November 13, 1999, 03:34 PM	#10
Darthmaum Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 1999 Posts: 394	I must second what JeffOTMG said about us Texans. It's a place like no other! We also have reciprocity agreements with AR, AZ, and LA. There are about 190,000 CCW's (190,001 now ) in TX and only 758 have been revoked after 4 years. Libertarian, why don't VA citizens smack those cities upside the head for ignoring the state's pre-emption laws? That's unconscionable... ------------------ "Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!

November 13, 1999, 07:06 PM	#11
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Living in Vermont, shoot all winter indoor matches, snow is not so bad (BS), no real crime, carry all the time, just not in the courthouses. Snowed today, was 8 F Thursday morning, don't buy Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream 'cause they support anti-gun leg. with corp. $. The temp swings are great for ammo testing, though........guns, too. ------------------ "All my ammo is factory ammo"

November 13, 1999, 07:50 PM	#12
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	Well Darthmaum, I was a coplaintiff on a case that went to the VA Supreme court this summer against the City of Alexandria. We lost on appeal.The city has the right to ban CCW from all city property. Now they have to catch me, but if they do, I am some deep doo doo because I do know better.

November 13, 1999, 08:14 PM	#13
oberkommando Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Posts: 1,158	Libertarian, better to be judged by 12 than carried by six. Thanks you guys for all the replys. Jeff OTMG, sound like I'll have to a least visit Texas, as to biggest I'll have to give that to Alaska, thanks for the info I was looking for.

November 13, 1999, 08:25 PM	#14
Jeff OTMG Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: OKC, OK & Austin, Tx Posts: 3,707	I am very familiar with Oklahoma, I grew up there. I just turned in my Oklahoma drivers license earlier this year and my truck and 3 of the motorcycles still have Oklahoma plates. In fact I even wrote your concealed carry legislation. At least the first version of it back in 1985. Frank Sherdan from Henrietta was the Senator I worked with but also got Gaylon Stacey and Mark Snyder to co sponsor it. The President of the Senate from Skiatook keep sending it to committee every year and wouldn't let it out. I think he finally died. We tried going through the house first one year, passed 99-5(I think), then got tied up in the Senate committee again. I left in 1991, but Sherdan kept it up. The final version that passed was not mine, but you can still find bits and pieces that I put in. I figured someone from Alaska would chime in and try to claim to be bigger. Down here in Texas we all know that Alaska is mostly ice and if you melted it Texas would be bigger. Besides, I said United States, Alaska isn't united with the rest of us, Canada is in the way. Alaska was up there to keep Russians from getting the rest of us, lord knows the Canadians wouldn't stop them.

November 13, 1999, 09:22 PM	#15
G-Freeman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 1999 Posts: 653	Jeff OTMG, you "wrote" the OK concealed carry legislation? Wow! Well all I can say is you have to listen to all of my complaints about what is screwed up about it then!

November 13, 1999, 10:04 PM	#16
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	Way off topic but... if they melted all the ice, most of Texas would be under water.

November 13, 1999, 10:14 PM	#17
tatters Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 1999 Location: Indiana Posts: 786	I live in Indiana, we are a shall issue state, and we also have good reciprocity agreements with other states. The bad part is, Illinois, and Ohio sucks for gun owners. No carry provision in those states. Kentucky to the south and Michigan to the north allow some carry for Indiana permit holders. Our permits cost 10 bucks at the local constabulatory for prints and papers, and 15 bucks sent to the state. The permits the first time take about 6 weeks to get and renewal every 4 years. My renewal only took about a week and a half and is a small, easy to laminate document. I don't mind the state making a little dough for their effort. The only thing is, a fella shouldn't need a document at all to do something the Constitution says he can do anyway. ------------------ You can never have too much ammo!---- Me (being a role model to my 5 year old)

November 13, 1999, 10:48 PM	#18
Dan Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 1998 Location: Hiram, Ga Posts: 283	My adopted state of Georgia ain't too bad. Just stay away from the city of Atlanta. Shall issue CCW, but w/a few vague restrictions, good prices on weapons, a fair number of places to shoot and GA was the first state to pass the law making it illeagle for cities to sue gun mfgs. Too bad it was after Atlanta filed thier suit. C'mon down, I've found most folks are pretty receptive to gun owners (even yankees like me)! ------------------ Dan Si vis pacem para bellum! Check me out at: <A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm" TARGET=_blank> www.mindspring.com/~susdan/interest.htm</A> www.mindspring.com/~susdan/GlocksnGoodies.htm

November 14, 1999, 06:44 AM	#19
Bulldog Senior Member Join Date: February 22, 1999 Location: Texas Posts: 564	Jeff & G-Freeman, Y'all know why Texas doesn't just fall off into the Gulf of Mexico, don't you?

November 14, 1999, 10:24 AM	#20
Libertarian Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 1999 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 2,117	Dan, Why Atlanta? Do they not honor CCW permits like NYC? Bulldog, Why?

November 14, 1999, 11:01 AM	#21
G-Freeman Senior Member Join Date: June 24, 1999 Posts: 653	Bulldog, That is just an unsubstantiated rumor. I think the only place they still teach that particularly tired geologic theory is at Texas A&M. Jeff, contributions you made to the cause here are appreciated.

November 14, 1999, 12:01 PM	#22
Patrick Seeber Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ - USA! Posts: 95	I was raised in Arizona and moved to Nevada. Both very firearm friendly. Both have open carry allowed. Arizona is probably better about this though. When we were setting up the gathering for TFL to shoot in Carson City I was told that although open carry was the law, anyone doing so will get to personally meet the local constabulary - Due to the anticipated high volume of calls, please don't do it. (grin) CCW is easy to achieve in both states. I only hold Nev CCW so can't speak to AZ CCW. We are only allowed 2 firearms and can't change without requalification with new pistol ($50 give or take plus $15 to get new permit issued.) NFA firearms are allowed with proper papers. Many varmits are open season for residents and others! Coyote, black eared rabbits, ground squirrels are on the list of open varmits here in Nev. Wonder why so many Kali residents are moving here??? That alone will really mess with the laws and drive housing prices through the roof... If you do shop for a house or employment in Nev, you may be wise to be from somewhere else... {grin} Kinda fun to still be able to have a drink and a SMOKE in the bars while we can... No, I ain't moving for a while. May have to enter politics, but I don't plan on moving... [This message has been edited by Patrick Seeber (edited November 14, 1999).]

November 14, 1999, 12:28 PM	#23
Jeff OTMG Senior Member Join Date: October 15, 1998 Location: OKC, OK & Austin, Tx Posts: 3,707	G-Freeeman, although I spent a lot of time on the phone with Bob Macy (the DA in OKC) and some state trooper that was shot will on duty, Frank Sherdan is the one who deserves the credit. I left Oklahoma in 1991 and he kept up the fight until he won. Very little of my version was left by the time NRA got through with it. They had a bill to work from that had been passed in other states so Oklahoma used that as its base and just added some of my stuff. Bob Cullison, that was the President of the Senate. If he had not been there the legislation would have passed 10 years earlier. A little known geologic fact: It is not Oklahoma that keeps Texas attached, but a combination of Iowa channelling through Kansas.

November 14, 1999, 08:55 PM	#24
lewis Member Join Date: October 27, 1998 Location: louisville,KY,USA Posts: 43	Have to get a plug in for Kentucky. We have shall issue permits, no local laws allowed, open carry OK, no paperwork for private transfers, National Gun Day show in Louisville, class III Ok, honor ALL other states permits (new change) and the state legislature is considering a bill to block KY cities from sueing gun manufacturers.

November 15, 1999, 12:34 AM	#25
Darthmaum Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 1999 Posts: 394	Libertarian, Even if Texas were to be underwater from all of AK's melted ice, it wouldn't last but a few days...it's too friggin' hot! ------------------ "Liberty or death, What we so proudly hail... Once you provoke Her, rattling of Her tail- Never begins it, NEVER- But once engaged never surrenders, showing the fangs of rage. DON'T TREAD ON ME!!