Best Shooter??

Johnywinslow · May 20, 2007, 04:29 PM

I am a life long tacticle shooter but recently bought a brass frame 58 remington from Cabellas, anyway i put 300 rds threw it befor the timming started to act up and eventualy the cylender stop broke, But that was more then enough to turn me into a full fledged addict. I bought the brass frame uneducated at the time and it was just the cheapest one they had, I know better now after hrs of research, I figured out that brass frames r junk...but the 58 remington served its purpose, I was curious and now im addicted !! more fun then my beretta 92-FS...But I am in the market for a pair of shooters, I live in N.AZ my shooting range is a few hundred squar miles of desert. I tend to shoot alot ( being nothing else to do around these parts) and I am looking for advise on a pair of guns that will last a few thousand rounds. I like everyone else love the Rugers but very pricy, I was considering the smaller 5 1/2 inch remingtons or 51 navy sherriff models , as they are cheap enough i can buy 2 for the price of one ruger, but I am also a big guy and like a big gun and also want a pair of 2nd model dragoons, but read they have accuracy issues at close range. I could use some sound advise on these guns , I dont seem to find much on the shorter pistols.

marcseatac · May 20, 2007, 05:09 PM

My 3rd model Dragoon and 47 Walker are tack drivers at close range.

Johnywinslow · May 20, 2007, 05:29 PM

lol I was hoping someone would say that ! the dragoons are my favorites from the picks i see. did u alter the sites at all? I read they shoot high at close range. makes sense being what they were designed for.

marcseatac · May 20, 2007, 05:59 PM

It seems like the Colts shoot high using a standard sight picture. I found that by pulling the front bead down where it barely shows in the rear notch it will shoot dead on close up. For shooting further away show more of the front sight. I think the oldtimers had this figured out and made good use of this technique.

The 1858 Pietta 5 1/2 barrel Remington that I have is one of the most accurate pistols I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. I've got about 300 rounds through mine with no trouble. I bought a Kirst coversion cylinder and also shoot .45SW CA loads.

I really like the cap and ball pistols myself. With your access to good shooting space you will have it figured out in no time.

I can see a stainless Remmie in your future!

Heinrich · May 20, 2007, 06:03 PM

With limited choice in South Africa, I own a Euroarms 1851 Navy Sherrif. It is very accurate, and a pleasure to shoot.

Yip, the Colt's do shoot high, I understand that they came out the factory regulated to shoot to point of aim at 50 yards, do not know how correct my source is.

Johnywinslow · May 20, 2007, 07:03 PM

Ive been killing myself tryin to figure what guns to buy, you guys r killin me. lol I like the colt sheriff models for a fast draw pistol , but the dragoons r my size, and yes I see a stainless remington in my future as well lolol BP shooting is gonna be a long but pricy adventure for me !

marcseatac · May 20, 2007, 07:18 PM

This is just my opinion and no knock on the Ruger Army but I used to own a Blackhawk in .41 mag (great pistol) and having had it many years I would not want one converted to cap and ball. I like the lightness of the 58, 51, 60, 61 cap and ball pistols and feel that this contributes to the nice pop you get when firing them.

Personally I would much rather have a stainless Remmie than the Ruger Old Army and save myself money to boot.

mykeal · May 20, 2007, 07:23 PM

I own several c&b revolvers. My favorite to shoot is a Uberti 2nd Model Dragoon. After that, it's very difficult to pick second place. It would have to be among the following: 1851 Colt Navy, 1860 Colt Army, Rogers & Spencer, 1873 Colt SAA (Uberti Cattleman, and yes, it's the c&b version). The Rogers and Spencer would probably win most of the time, but honestly, it's pretty much a dead heat.

I also own, among other things, a Colt 1862 Police, which is my ony small frame c&b revolver. While it's fun to carry and shoot, I don't really get along well with the small frame guns, so it didn't make the list above.

I do not yet own a Ruger Old Army or a Colt Walker; both are on the wish list. I just got a Colt 1861 Navy that I'm anxious to try as soon as UPS sees fit to drive out my way. They have potential to alter the above choices, but the Dragoon will likely keep it's top spot.

Phantom Captain · May 20, 2007, 08:13 PM

Hehe,

Why choose? Get them all!! This is just to tempt you even more.

I like to shoot offhand at 10yds. Honestly, I think the Navy is the most accurate. I just ordered an Uberti 1851 Navy to add to my collection. My favorite though would be the Army. I just like the bigger .44 and of the three that I have (Army, 2nd Model Dragoon, and the Remington) the Army is definitely the most accurate and just feels all around "right". IMHO. They are all special in their own way though, nothing booms or smokes like that Dragoon fully loaded! My Remington NMA is just plain pretty.

One other thing, this is just in my experience other's may find differently. The Colt replicas for me shoot pretty much dead on at 10 yds, it's a definite feel thing though. It's only when I start shooting out to 25yds that my Army and Dragoon shoot high. It's very interesting and something I still try to figure out. The Navy still seems to shoot to point of aim even at 25yds. Go figure.

Johnywinslow · May 20, 2007, 08:17 PM

Hey cpt. you dont need to rub it in lolol nice colection!!! Its youre pics on other threads that sold me on the dragoons . lol and thnks to you ill be wanting one of the springfields too ... my bank account is verry upset with you! lolol great collection by the way! I like how you went all out with authentic saber and leather, are u in re enactments?

arcticap · May 20, 2007, 10:56 PM

Here's an informative thread with pictures about Dragoons. One poster says his Uberti shoots 14 inches high at 25 yards:

http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=278612

When you consider that Ruger just about totally rebuilds used OA's at no charge, it makes sense to buy a used Ruger just to get the great warranty repair service. There's plenty of parts that will need to be replaced on nearly all of the imported pistols over time, so both the Italian or Rugers will cost about the same over time...with parts & service costs included the imported guns might cost even more in the long run. And Ruger OA's reportedly have some of the best accuracy, reliability and cylinder to barrel tolerances.

mec · May 20, 2007, 11:20 PM

I lowered POI just a bit by facing off the top of the hammer and making the rear sight notch a little deeper. This Uberti dragoon is very easy to shoot:

Phantom Captain · May 21, 2007, 08:04 AM

Hey Johhny,

Yeah, beware, it's an addiction. I am not a reenactor although I should be. I have looked into joining a unit close to me and looked into the skirmishing units as well but haven't pulled the trigger yet.

I am a Civil War buff, collector, reader and amateur historian. I started shooting black powder very young with my father a long time ago and that's what started me down this path. Over time my interest became mainly the Civil War period and now that's all I shoot or collect.

I've bought everything I have in small batches over the past 20 years or so and now have a pretty sizable collection, books, maps, flags, uniforms, guns, equipment, gear etc. To me it's a hands on connection to our past and our ancestors.

Plus, there is nothing cooler than the old cap and ball guns!

Phantom Captain · May 22, 2007, 05:41 PM

Hey mec!

I just recently purchased and read your book, I must say it was excellent!! Very well put together, imminently readable and full of all kinds of worthwile info for anyone into Percussion and C&B guns.

Just wanted to say excellent job and money well spent!

Oh, my dad read and loved it too!

mec · May 22, 2007, 05:50 PM

In a little over a month, there should be another one out for you to spend money on. We've concentrated on revolvers vs single shots, expanded the load data, added more guns and found a bit more history. also tried to improve the pictures as much as the available tech will let us.

Phantom Captain · May 22, 2007, 06:01 PM

Excellent!

I absolutely will have to get one! Looking forward to it.

O.S.O.K. · May 22, 2007, 08:47 PM

mec - is it at amazon? I'm asking - its OK to spill the beans

You can PM me if I need your real name.

PhantomCaptain - you're collection is growing! Fast!

Now you need a Walker

This stuff is addictive, isn't it?

mec · May 23, 2007, 02:57 AM

Not too early I guess but its still with the proof reader and will have to go for indexing next. then several weeks for them to get it by the printer. They list them through a book distributor and it seems that Amazon.com is the major seller. Barnes and Noble is another but it also shows up at a few dozen online book sellers. Something like this is a bit esoteric for mainstreem book stores and you wont ever justfind it on the shelves. Any bookstore can order it by isbn though.

O.S.O.K. · May 24, 2007, 08:36 AM

I definately want a copy of this one - focusing on revolvers. If it's half as good as your posts, it'll be worth the money

Thanks!

May 20, 2007, 04:29 PM	#1
Johnywinslow Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 131	Best Shooter?? I am a life long tacticle shooter but recently bought a brass frame 58 remington from Cabellas, anyway i put 300 rds threw it befor the timming started to act up and eventualy the cylender stop broke, But that was more then enough to turn me into a full fledged addict. I bought the brass frame uneducated at the time and it was just the cheapest one they had, I know better now after hrs of research, I figured out that brass frames r junk...but the 58 remington served its purpose, I was curious and now im addicted !! more fun then my beretta 92-FS...But I am in the market for a pair of shooters, I live in N.AZ my shooting range is a few hundred squar miles of desert. I tend to shoot alot ( being nothing else to do around these parts) and I am looking for advise on a pair of guns that will last a few thousand rounds. I like everyone else love the Rugers but very pricy, I was considering the smaller 5 1/2 inch remingtons or 51 navy sherriff models , as they are cheap enough i can buy 2 for the price of one ruger, but I am also a big guy and like a big gun and also want a pair of 2nd model dragoons, but read they have accuracy issues at close range. I could use some sound advise on these guns , I dont seem to find much on the shorter pistols.

May 20, 2007, 05:29 PM	#3
Johnywinslow Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 131	sites? lol I was hoping someone would say that ! the dragoons are my favorites from the picks i see. did u alter the sites at all? I read they shoot high at close range. makes sense being what they were designed for.

May 20, 2007, 06:03 PM	#5
Heinrich Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Location: Gauteng South Africa Posts: 86	With limited choice in South Africa, I own a Euroarms 1851 Navy Sherrif. It is very accurate, and a pleasure to shoot. Yip, the Colt's do shoot high, I understand that they came out the factory regulated to shoot to point of aim at 50 yards, do not know how correct my source is. __________________ Those who burn books end by burning men - Heinrich Heine

May 20, 2007, 07:03 PM	#6
Johnywinslow Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 131	choices r killin me. Ive been killing myself tryin to figure what guns to buy, you guys r killin me. lol I like the colt sheriff models for a fast draw pistol , but the dragoons r my size, and yes I see a stainless remington in my future as well lolol BP shooting is gonna be a long but pricy adventure for me !

May 20, 2007, 07:23 PM	#8
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	My favorite I own several c&b revolvers. My favorite to shoot is a Uberti 2nd Model Dragoon. After that, it's very difficult to pick second place. It would have to be among the following: 1851 Colt Navy, 1860 Colt Army, Rogers & Spencer, 1873 Colt SAA (Uberti Cattleman, and yes, it's the c&b version). The Rogers and Spencer would probably win most of the time, but honestly, it's pretty much a dead heat. I also own, among other things, a Colt 1862 Police, which is my ony small frame c&b revolver. While it's fun to carry and shoot, I don't really get along well with the small frame guns, so it didn't make the list above. I do not yet own a Ruger Old Army or a Colt Walker; both are on the wish list. I just got a Colt 1861 Navy that I'm anxious to try as soon as UPS sees fit to drive out my way. They have potential to alter the above choices, but the Dragoon will likely keep it's top spot.

May 20, 2007, 05:09 PM	#2
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	My 3rd model Dragoon and 47 Walker are tack drivers at close range.

May 20, 2007, 05:59 PM	#4
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	It seems like the Colts shoot high using a standard sight picture. I found that by pulling the front bead down where it barely shows in the rear notch it will shoot dead on close up. For shooting further away show more of the front sight. I think the oldtimers had this figured out and made good use of this technique. The 1858 Pietta 5 1/2 barrel Remington that I have is one of the most accurate pistols I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. I've got about 300 rounds through mine with no trouble. I bought a Kirst coversion cylinder and also shoot .45SW CA loads. I really like the cap and ball pistols myself. With your access to good shooting space you will have it figured out in no time. I can see a stainless Remmie in your future!

May 20, 2007, 07:18 PM	#7
marcseatac Senior Member Join Date: October 7, 2006 Posts: 225	This is just my opinion and no knock on the Ruger Army but I used to own a Blackhawk in .41 mag (great pistol) and having had it many years I would not want one converted to cap and ball. I like the lightness of the 58, 51, 60, 61 cap and ball pistols and feel that this contributes to the nice pop you get when firing them. Personally I would much rather have a stainless Remmie than the Ruger Old Army and save myself money to boot.

May 20, 2007, 08:13 PM	#9
Phantom Captain Member Join Date: March 27, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 78	Hehe, Why choose? Get them all!! This is just to tempt you even more. I like to shoot offhand at 10yds. Honestly, I think the Navy is the most accurate. I just ordered an Uberti 1851 Navy to add to my collection. My favorite though would be the Army. I just like the bigger .44 and of the three that I have (Army, 2nd Model Dragoon, and the Remington) the Army is definitely the most accurate and just feels all around "right". IMHO. They are all special in their own way though, nothing booms or smokes like that Dragoon fully loaded! My Remington NMA is just plain pretty. One other thing, this is just in my experience other's may find differently. The Colt replicas for me shoot pretty much dead on at 10 yds, it's a definite feel thing though. It's only when I start shooting out to 25yds that my Army and Dragoon shoot high. It's very interesting and something I still try to figure out. The Navy still seems to shoot to point of aim even at 25yds. Go figure. Last edited by Phantom Captain; May 20, 2007 at 10:28 PM.

May 20, 2007, 08:17 PM	#10
Johnywinslow Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 131	Hey cpt. you dont need to rub it in lolol nice colection!!! Its youre pics on other threads that sold me on the dragoons . lol and thnks to you ill be wanting one of the springfields too ... my bank account is verry upset with you! lolol great collection by the way! I like how you went all out with authentic saber and leather, are u in re enactments?

May 20, 2007, 10:56 PM	#11
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 3,166	Here's an informative thread with pictures about Dragoons. One poster says his Uberti shoots 14 inches high at 25 yards: http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=278612 When you consider that Ruger just about totally rebuilds used OA's at no charge, it makes sense to buy a used Ruger just to get the great warranty repair service. There's plenty of parts that will need to be replaced on nearly all of the imported pistols over time, so both the Italian or Rugers will cost about the same over time...with parts & service costs included the imported guns might cost even more in the long run. And Ruger OA's reportedly have some of the best accuracy, reliability and cylinder to barrel tolerances.

May 20, 2007, 11:20 PM	#12
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	I lowered POI just a bit by facing off the top of the hammer and making the rear sight notch a little deeper. This Uberti dragoon is very easy to shoot: Last edited by mec; August 28, 2010 at 09:21 PM.

May 21, 2007, 08:04 AM	#13
Phantom Captain Member Join Date: March 27, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 78	Hey Johhny, Yeah, beware, it's an addiction. I am not a reenactor although I should be. I have looked into joining a unit close to me and looked into the skirmishing units as well but haven't pulled the trigger yet. I am a Civil War buff, collector, reader and amateur historian. I started shooting black powder very young with my father a long time ago and that's what started me down this path. Over time my interest became mainly the Civil War period and now that's all I shoot or collect. I've bought everything I have in small batches over the past 20 years or so and now have a pretty sizable collection, books, maps, flags, uniforms, guns, equipment, gear etc. To me it's a hands on connection to our past and our ancestors. Plus, there is nothing cooler than the old cap and ball guns!

May 22, 2007, 05:41 PM	#14
Phantom Captain Member Join Date: March 27, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 78	Hey mec! I just recently purchased and read your book, I must say it was excellent!! Very well put together, imminently readable and full of all kinds of worthwile info for anyone into Percussion and C&B guns. Just wanted to say excellent job and money well spent! Oh, my dad read and loved it too! __________________ 49th Indiana Volunteer Infantry, Co. F

May 22, 2007, 05:50 PM	#15
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	In a little over a month, there should be another one out for you to spend money on. We've concentrated on revolvers vs single shots, expanded the load data, added more guns and found a bit more history. also tried to improve the pictures as much as the available tech will let us.

May 22, 2007, 06:01 PM	#16
Phantom Captain Member Join Date: March 27, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 78	Excellent! I absolutely will have to get one! Looking forward to it. __________________ 49th Indiana Volunteer Infantry, Co. F

May 22, 2007, 08:47 PM	#17
O.S.O.K. Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2007 Posts: 122	book? mec - is it at amazon? I'm asking - its OK to spill the beans You can PM me if I need your real name. PhantomCaptain - you're collection is growing! Fast! Now you need a Walker This stuff is addictive, isn't it?

May 23, 2007, 02:57 AM	#18
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	Not too early I guess but its still with the proof reader and will have to go for indexing next. then several weeks for them to get it by the printer. They list them through a book distributor and it seems that Amazon.com is the major seller. Barnes and Noble is another but it also shows up at a few dozen online book sellers. Something like this is a bit esoteric for mainstreem book stores and you wont ever justfind it on the shelves. Any bookstore can order it by isbn though.

May 24, 2007, 08:36 AM	#19
O.S.O.K. Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2007 Posts: 122	well then I definately want a copy of this one - focusing on revolvers. If it's half as good as your posts, it'll be worth the money Thanks!