30-40 Krag

Sea Buck · May 1, 2012, 10:42 AM

I have purchased a 30-40 Krag carbine that was sold by the NRA in the 1920s. It is very well done and is a 1892 barrel/receiver and an 1892 stock. I am going to reload for it and have some IMR 4064. I want to be nice to this old rifle and will start with 35.6 grains (from my old Sierra book) and a 180 grain RN(only because I have some).Any thoughts on this? Just as a matter of interest the twist rate seems to be very fast,any idea as to what it is?

McShooty · May 1, 2012, 11:50 AM

I have a similar Model of 1892. I have fired both Remington and Winchester factory 180-grain loads, which travel at 2400 fps or better, with good results. Handloads do not need to be that warm for good accuracy. I think you are wise to start at the level noted with 4064 and you may end up using a little more to get about 2100 fps with the 180-grain bullet. I have used W760 and IMR4350 at the 2100 fps level (Hornady or Sierra 180 RNs) and find that both are very accurate, even though the bore of my piece is not great. I think the twist rate is 1x10". Experts tell you to have your rifle checked for safety before firing, and they point out that cracks sometimes develop around the single locking lug. I have never seen that on the three Krags I own nor on any I have examined. At any rate, at the pressures of the loads referenced here, the bolt will never come back in your face, in my opinion (Never say never?) There is a safety lug on the side of the bolt and a robust notch for the bolt handle. Never hurts to have it checked, though. If this is a DCM Krag it is very nice and I think you are in for some fun.

Sea Buck · May 1, 2012, 12:42 PM

Thank you for your quick reply. It is in fact a NRA (DCM ?) Was there a DCM in the 20's? I might go a tad more on the 4064. I really do not need the extra 100 fps. My bore is excellent for an era that had corrosive primers. I am reading that lighter bullets are not quite as accurate. Function of the twist rate I'd guess. Thanks again.

Strafer Gott · May 1, 2012, 02:12 PM

A literature search says a one in twelve twist on the '96. Speer 165 is recommended as the lightest bullet for accuracy. The smoothness of the bolt is really nice. I've been petting them at the LGS. My resistance is about shot.
Pills are about a buck apiece. That means another set of dies. The pattern repeats itself!

WIL TERRY · May 2, 2012, 12:36 PM

ALL 30USA KRAG rifles had a one in ten twist [ 1/10"] to stabilize that beautiful 220GR FMJ projectile. SO did ALL SPRINGFIELD '03 rifles too as a matter of fact and for the same reason.

McShooty · May 3, 2012, 09:35 AM

The late Col. Brophy's book has a short chapter on the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) Krags. They were sold from 1922 to 1931, and the only ones listed are Model 1898s. There is no identifying mark on any of the guns sold by the DCM to NRA members, which is unfortunate. The Bbl should be 22", crowned, and fitted with a sleeve-type, 1903 Springfield style front sight expertly installed. All the wood and stock fittings were original carbine parts. Other cut-down sellers such as W. Stokes Kirk and Bannerman did a poor job of installing and finishing the front sight. In general, these folks supplied rifles of lesser quality and many of them look crappy.

I am wondering about your 1892 ID. My 1892 (Ser 15XXX) has the date 1894 on the left side of the receiver. No Krags were made in 1892, although the first ones were given that model designation, because it took a while after approval to get production going. It has been my belief that 1894 is the earliest date you will see on a Krag. Then there is the fact that almost all of the guns originally designated as Model 1892 were returned to Springfield and upgraded to Model 1896 status, so they all have the appearance of 1896s. That is what mine looks like, and, while it looks exactly like pictures of the DCM Krags I have seen, and is in very good condition, I really have no proof of where it came from. Krags can be frustrating for collectors, but they are fun to shoot!

Brophy, Lt. Col. William S. USAR Ret., [U]The Krag Rifle,[U] The Gun Room Press, High.and Park, NJ 08904. 1985 (4th printing 1995)

FrankenMauser · May 3, 2012, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Thank you for your quick reply. It is in fact a NRA (DCM ?) Was there a DCM in the 20's? I might go a tad more on the 4064. I really do not need the extra 100 fps. My bore is excellent for an era that had corrosive primers. I am reading that lighter bullets are not quite as accurate. Function of the twist rate I'd guess. Thanks again.

A substantial portion of the surviving Krag rifles went through the DCM. (My own Krag was an 1895 rifle that was cut down to a 20" Carbine by the DCM - via the same method described in McShooty's post.)

As for bullets-
My own experience mirrors that of many ballisticians:
Pointy bullets rarely do well (spitzers, pointed soft points, etc).
Round Nose bullets usually do very well.
And, heavier bullets can allow for smoother feeding. (Try to seat your RN bullets out as far as possible.)

If you happen to be loading 220 RNs at about 1,950 fps, your original sights should match the trajectory of the bullet.

May 1, 2012, 10:42 AM	#1
Sea Buck Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: New England,Florida Snow Bird Posts: 312	30-40 Krag I have purchased a 30-40 Krag carbine that was sold by the NRA in the 1920s. It is very well done and is a 1892 barrel/receiver and an 1892 stock. I am going to reload for it and have some IMR 4064. I want to be nice to this old rifle and will start with 35.6 grains (from my old Sierra book) and a 180 grain RN(only because I have some).Any thoughts on this? Just as a matter of interest the twist rate seems to be very fast,any idea as to what it is?

May 1, 2012, 11:50 AM	#2
McShooty Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Northern Missouri Posts: 480	I have a similar Model of 1892. I have fired both Remington and Winchester factory 180-grain loads, which travel at 2400 fps or better, with good results. Handloads do not need to be that warm for good accuracy. I think you are wise to start at the level noted with 4064 and you may end up using a little more to get about 2100 fps with the 180-grain bullet. I have used W760 and IMR4350 at the 2100 fps level (Hornady or Sierra 180 RNs) and find that both are very accurate, even though the bore of my piece is not great. I think the twist rate is 1x10". Experts tell you to have your rifle checked for safety before firing, and they point out that cracks sometimes develop around the single locking lug. I have never seen that on the three Krags I own nor on any I have examined. At any rate, at the pressures of the loads referenced here, the bolt will never come back in your face, in my opinion (Never say never?) There is a safety lug on the side of the bolt and a robust notch for the bolt handle. Never hurts to have it checked, though. If this is a DCM Krag it is very nice and I think you are in for some fun.

May 1, 2012, 12:42 PM	#3
Sea Buck Senior Member Join Date: September 9, 2008 Location: New England,Florida Snow Bird Posts: 312	Thank you for your quick reply. It is in fact a NRA (DCM ?) Was there a DCM in the 20's? I might go a tad more on the 4064. I really do not need the extra 100 fps. My bore is excellent for an era that had corrosive primers. I am reading that lighter bullets are not quite as accurate. Function of the twist rate I'd guess. Thanks again.

May 1, 2012, 02:12 PM	#4
Strafer Gott Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2011 Location: New Mexico Posts: 1,315	A literature search says a one in twelve twist on the '96. Speer 165 is recommended as the lightest bullet for accuracy. The smoothness of the bolt is really nice. I've been petting them at the LGS. My resistance is about shot. Pills are about a buck apiece. That means another set of dies. The pattern repeats itself!

May 2, 2012, 12:36 PM	#5
WIL TERRY Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2000 Location: BLACK HILLS Posts: 1,322	ALL 30USA KRAG rifles had a one in ten twist [ 1/10"] to stabilize that beautiful 220GR FMJ projectile. SO did ALL SPRINGFIELD '03 rifles too as a matter of fact and for the same reason.

May 3, 2012, 09:35 AM	#6
McShooty Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2012 Location: Northern Missouri Posts: 480	The late Col. Brophy's book has a short chapter on the Director of Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) Krags. They were sold from 1922 to 1931, and the only ones listed are Model 1898s. There is no identifying mark on any of the guns sold by the DCM to NRA members, which is unfortunate. The Bbl should be 22", crowned, and fitted with a sleeve-type, 1903 Springfield style front sight expertly installed. All the wood and stock fittings were original carbine parts. Other cut-down sellers such as W. Stokes Kirk and Bannerman did a poor job of installing and finishing the front sight. In general, these folks supplied rifles of lesser quality and many of them look crappy. I am wondering about your 1892 ID. My 1892 (Ser 15XXX) has the date 1894 on the left side of the receiver. No Krags were made in 1892, although the first ones were given that model designation, because it took a while after approval to get production going. It has been my belief that 1894 is the earliest date you will see on a Krag. Then there is the fact that almost all of the guns originally designated as Model 1892 were returned to Springfield and upgraded to Model 1896 status, so they all have the appearance of 1896s. That is what mine looks like, and, while it looks exactly like pictures of the DCM Krags I have seen, and is in very good condition, I really have no proof of where it came from. Krags can be frustrating for collectors, but they are fun to shoot! Brophy, Lt. Col. William S. USAR Ret., [U]The Krag Rifle,[U] The Gun Room Press, High.and Park, NJ 08904. 1985 (4th printing 1995)