CZ 75B premature ejection

hansolo · September 19, 2002, 08:06 PM

I am TRYING to remain CALM!

This is a replacement CZ 75B(9mm, standard slide): the first one I bought had major FTF/FTE jams. This one has good and bad days...I may go 2-300 rounds without a hiccup. Then, with no consistancy, the spent case will partially eject, but the slide slams shut on it...No, I am not limpwristing...Yes, I am using good factory ammo(Win., Rem., S&B, Fed.) The standard factory recoil spring is 14 lbs. -- One fellow said I should try a 13 lb. spring...?
I clean the pistol after every trip to the range. Casings eject from three to seven feet. I use a good cleaner/lube(FP-10). I have factory magazines. I never dropped the pistol or mags. I make sure to clean around the extractor each cleaning...gingerly, so as not to damage it. Is it just possible that I got a second "lemon"? Could the extractor be to blame -- if so, why does it only screw-up occasionally?

HELP!

sven · September 19, 2002, 10:19 PM

Ask over in the CZ75B Club at CZForum...

Jim Watson · September 19, 2002, 10:30 PM

Take the extractor OUT - drive the pin down from the top - and clean out from under it. You will be amazed and disgusted at the buildup.

If that does not help, order a new extractor and spring, only about $13, maybe free if you sound pitiful.

My extractor was just slightly dull, the spring slightly weaker than the replacement, so they only occasionally failed to eject.

WESHOOT2 · September 20, 2002, 04:30 AM

Good advice on cleaning and/or replacing extractor.

Also might consider 'follow-through', limpwrist's second cousin.
No harm intended, just a thought.......

hansolo · September 21, 2002, 05:45 PM

Thanks to the above replies...I have emailed Mike at CZ-USA..he emailed for me to call him Monday and discuss.

Now, with all due respect to the nice folks who replied as well as Mike at CZ, here is what is tickling my cerebelum: my first CZ 75 had bad FTF/FTE jams out of the box...CZ tried to fix, it didn't
"take", and they replaced with another CZ 75B. It, also, has occasional FTF/FTE jams. I don't think it's my grip...I use good ammo...and clean the pistol each session. Many CZ owners are shocked when they hear of these JAMS. The one thing that bothers me is this: the first CZ I bought was a 1996 manufacture(I assumed it was new -- the dealer said, "It IS new...you're the first owner.": the replacement is a 1998 -- why didn't I get a more recent pistol, like, one made in this decade? I payed $340+
which is what NEW ones go for. Wishing I'd bought another make at this point

Is this just bad luck, or do others have these problems but just don't rant about it?

Walt Sherrill · September 21, 2002, 07:35 PM

Failure to extract properly and problems with slides locking (or not locking) seem to be the two most common problems mentioned on the CZ Forum. (I'm a moderator there.)

Jim Watson's advice is right on target -- and seems to be the cure for most extraction problems. [I've never had the problem with my CZs, but I've begun cleaning the non-visible part of the extractor with spray solvents (brake cleaner) when I clean thoroughly.] The similar EAA Witnesses don't seem to have the problem, but I think their extractor mechanism is slightly different.

The other problem noticed is premature slide locks -- and this is most common with ammo that might not be quite to spec. The nose of the round, as it comes up the magazine, seems to nudge the slide-stop.

We've found that if you examine it closely (slide off, loaded magazine in place), you can often see the problem. Then you remove just the tiniest bit of metal from the slide stop where the two parts (bullet and slide stop) interact.

WESHOOT2 · September 21, 2002, 08:14 PM

Changed extractor and/or spring on 3 or 4 of my Witness slides.

Fixed (except 45ACP, POS is too accurate to dump, but totally unreliable).

hansolo · September 21, 2002, 10:12 PM

Thanks for the tips

I soaked the exposed area of the extractor with Breakfree clp after shooting today...let it sit for awhile and blasted it with compressed air; a lot of crud came out.
Tommoror I'll take a trip to the range and let you know how it pans out.

Thanks again.

Steve

James K · September 21, 2002, 11:12 PM

Hi, Jim and guys,

If you drive out the extractor pin, be sure to stake it when you put it back in, as they can come out if not staked.

Jim

hansolo · September 22, 2002, 08:12 PM

So far, so good. I can't see this as an extractor-related problem; I feel it's more recoil spring/ejector....I may be dead wrong, but If I can fire a lot of ammo(200 this morning)with no problems, and have an occasional stovepipe, it seems that the extractor is doing it's job. I DID blast around it to clean the crud out...maybe that is something I need to do every cleaning

Thanks for your replies!!

stans · September 23, 2002, 05:43 AM

I had similar stovepipe jams with a TZ-75 Series 88. It was 100% reliable with +P ammo, but standard pressure ammo would stovepipe. I replaced the 14 pound spring with a 12 pounder and the problems went away.

slickpuppy · September 23, 2002, 05:59 PM

There have been a few instances where the extractors were seriously out of spec. and made them into guns. I believe one of the guys in the general discussion forum several months back had posted some pics. You may want to try a search for it.

hansolo · September 24, 2002, 12:06 AM

It happened again...after approx. 130 troucle-free rounds, I had another stovepipe, this time with UMC 115 FMJ --

I appreciate all responses!

I will try all(most)suggestions: experiment with lighter recoil spring, remove/replace extractor and spring, try a more powerful ammo to cycle better(

)

If I still get occasional stovepipes, I think it may be time to put this CZ 75B in the consignment case and consider a Ruger P89...I have heard that, although not the "sexiest" 9mm around, this Ruger has a reputation for 100% reliability....I want to get into casual matches at my local gunclub, and even an occasional jam is not acceptable to me.....The amount of stress and time I've spent trying to get this pistol to cycle reliably is ludicrous!

I guess the Czech Zed just wants to drive me nuts!

So, one more round of "home gunsmithing" and I hope it works 'cause I really like this pistol when it's cookin', which is most of the time.

Walt Sherrill · September 24, 2002, 06:27 AM

If you feel compelled to sell the CZ, don't get the P-89. Get the newer and improved P-95. (Same basic gun done in polymer, with some enhancements to the barrel lockup design. P-89 hicaps work in the P-95.)

Or just splurge and get the P-97. Just a few bucks more, but one of the better .45s avaialble.

(I had a P-95 that I sold to buy a SIG P-239, and later regretted the sale. The P-239 was alright, but just didn't fit my hand; the P-95 was absolutely reliable and very accurate. But you know how it is when you get bitten by "brand name gun" lust...)

All Rugers have the reputation for solid reliability, but you can encounter problem guns from Ruger, too.

The CZ should be AS reliable as the P-95, point better, and be more accurate.

UMC and Winchester white box you've been shooting is among the junkiest ammo you can buy. Some guns shoot them perfectly; more seem to choke.

Try Sellier & Bellot, MagTech, IMI, CCI/Blazer, Denel, or PNP. All of them seem to work great in my (and other) CZs.

hansolo · September 24, 2002, 11:39 AM

Thanks, Walt!

I will keep my CZ, notwithstanding some growing pains

I have to admit, most of the jams have been with Winchester Whitebox and UMC! I have been using CCI/Blazer occasionally, and have yet to jam with the aluminum casings...

I've tried S&B, as it is Czech-made and CZ uses it to test their pistols....other than Magtech, I haven't heard of the other brands, but will look for them on your sage advice.

Now, Doctor, how much is my bill?

Molon Labe!

Walt Sherrill · September 24, 2002, 12:41 PM

Century Arms frequently has Denel or PMP ammo at a very good price. (You can often get 1000 rounds delivered for about $110.)

(I wrote PNP in my first message. Its PMP.)

http://www.centuryarms.com/

Depending on where you live, you can get most of the other ammo from Natchez SHooters Supply. Great service, good prices, but shipping may be an issue -- if you're a long distance from Tennessee. (I get S&B and CCI/Blazer from them by the case, for around $5 a box. Shipping is usually about $15. And quick.)

IMI is an israeli-made ammo. Sometimes you can find it very cheap, but most of the time its 10%-15% higher than the other stuff I mentioned -- but very, very good ammo. Its my hardball of choice, when I'm feeling a little more "monied." (Doesn't happen often.)

rhoggman · July 12, 2009, 08:57 PM

I'm having the same issue with my CZ 75BD Police.

I have ordered a new extractor spring, and a 14lb recoil spring. The recoil spring is currently an 18lb.

CowTowner · July 14, 2009, 09:01 AM

I have never had any issues with my CZ-75BD Police. Or with the Kadet .22LR conversion kit on the frame either.
Just for kicks, have you tried shooting 124 Gr FMJ or TCMJ rounds?
The heavier bullet may help to prove or dis-prove a recoil spring issue.

rhoggman · July 14, 2009, 10:14 PM

I ended up replacing the factory recoil spring, and adding an increased power extractor spring. Seems to be cleared up but I have not really put enough rounds into it to say one way or the other.

September 19, 2002, 08:06 PM	#1
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	CZ 75B premature ejection I am TRYING to remain CALM! This is a replacement CZ 75B(9mm, standard slide): the first one I bought had major FTF/FTE jams. This one has good and bad days...I may go 2-300 rounds without a hiccup. Then, with no consistancy, the spent case will partially eject, but the slide slams shut on it...No, I am not limpwristing...Yes, I am using good factory ammo(Win., Rem., S&B, Fed.) The standard factory recoil spring is 14 lbs. -- One fellow said I should try a 13 lb. spring...? I clean the pistol after every trip to the range. Casings eject from three to seven feet. I use a good cleaner/lube(FP-10). I have factory magazines. I never dropped the pistol or mags. I make sure to clean around the extractor each cleaning...gingerly, so as not to damage it. Is it just possible that I got a second "lemon"? Could the extractor be to blame -- if so, why does it only screw-up occasionally? HELP! __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 20, 2002, 04:30 AM	#4
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	AARGH. Good advice on cleaning and/or replacing extractor. Also might consider 'follow-through', limpwrist's second cousin. No harm intended, just a thought....... __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 21, 2002, 05:45 PM	#5
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	CZ jams Thanks to the above replies...I have emailed Mike at CZ-USA..he emailed for me to call him Monday and discuss. Now, with all due respect to the nice folks who replied as well as Mike at CZ, here is what is tickling my cerebelum: my first CZ 75 had bad FTF/FTE jams out of the box...CZ tried to fix, it didn't "take", and they replaced with another CZ 75B. It, also, has occasional FTF/FTE jams. I don't think it's my grip...I use good ammo...and clean the pistol each session. Many CZ owners are shocked when they hear of these JAMS. The one thing that bothers me is this: the first CZ I bought was a 1996 manufacture(I assumed it was new -- the dealer said, "It IS new...you're the first owner.": the replacement is a 1998 -- why didn't I get a more recent pistol, like, one made in this decade? I payed $340+ which is what NEW ones go for. Wishing I'd bought another make at this point Is this just bad luck, or do others have these problems but just don't rant about it? __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 21, 2002, 08:14 PM	#7
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	WITNESS WITNESS Changed extractor and/or spring on 3 or 4 of my Witness slides. Fixed (except 45ACP, POS is too accurate to dump, but totally unreliable). __________________ . "all my ammo is mostly retired factory ammo"

September 21, 2002, 10:12 PM	#8
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	CZ FTE Thanks for the tips I soaked the exposed area of the extractor with Breakfree clp after shooting today...let it sit for awhile and blasted it with compressed air; a lot of crud came out. Tommoror I'll take a trip to the range and let you know how it pans out. Thanks again. Steve __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 19, 2002, 10:19 PM	#2
sven Senior Member Join Date: January 4, 2002 Location: Palo Alto, California Posts: 532	Ask over in the CZ75B Club at CZForum...

September 19, 2002, 10:30 PM	#3
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	Take the extractor OUT - drive the pin down from the top - and clean out from under it. You will be amazed and disgusted at the buildup. If that does not help, order a new extractor and spring, only about $13, maybe free if you sound pitiful. My extractor was just slightly dull, the spring slightly weaker than the replacement, so they only occasionally failed to eject.

September 21, 2002, 07:35 PM	#6
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	Failure to extract properly and problems with slides locking (or not locking) seem to be the two most common problems mentioned on the CZ Forum. (I'm a moderator there.) Jim Watson's advice is right on target -- and seems to be the cure for most extraction problems. [I've never had the problem with my CZs, but I've begun cleaning the non-visible part of the extractor with spray solvents (brake cleaner) when I clean thoroughly.] The similar EAA Witnesses don't seem to have the problem, but I think their extractor mechanism is slightly different. The other problem noticed is premature slide locks -- and this is most common with ammo that might not be quite to spec. The nose of the round, as it comes up the magazine, seems to nudge the slide-stop. We've found that if you examine it closely (slide off, loaded magazine in place), you can often see the problem. Then you remove just the tiniest bit of metal from the slide stop where the two parts (bullet and slide stop) interact.

September 21, 2002, 11:12 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, Jim and guys, If you drive out the extractor pin, be sure to stake it when you put it back in, as they can come out if not staked. Jim

September 22, 2002, 08:12 PM	#10
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	CZ Range Report So far, so good. I can't see this as an extractor-related problem; I feel it's more recoil spring/ejector....I may be dead wrong, but If I can fire a lot of ammo(200 this morning)with no problems, and have an occasional stovepipe, it seems that the extractor is doing it's job. I DID blast around it to clean the crud out...maybe that is something I need to do every cleaning Thanks for your replies!! __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 23, 2002, 05:43 AM	#11
stans Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 838	I had similar stovepipe jams with a TZ-75 Series 88. It was 100% reliable with +P ammo, but standard pressure ammo would stovepipe. I replaced the 14 pound spring with a 12 pounder and the problems went away.

September 23, 2002, 05:59 PM	#12
slickpuppy Senior Member Join Date: August 29, 1999 Posts: 928	There have been a few instances where the extractors were seriously out of spec. and made them into guns. I believe one of the guys in the general discussion forum several months back had posted some pics. You may want to try a search for it.

September 24, 2002, 12:06 AM	#13
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	Thank you, TFLers It happened again...after approx. 130 troucle-free rounds, I had another stovepipe, this time with UMC 115 FMJ -- I appreciate all responses! I will try all(most)suggestions: experiment with lighter recoil spring, remove/replace extractor and spring, try a more powerful ammo to cycle better( ) If I still get occasional stovepipes, I think it may be time to put this CZ 75B in the consignment case and consider a Ruger P89...I have heard that, although not the "sexiest" 9mm around, this Ruger has a reputation for 100% reliability....I want to get into casual matches at my local gunclub, and even an occasional jam is not acceptable to me.....The amount of stress and time I've spent trying to get this pistol to cycle reliably is ludicrous! I guess the Czech Zed just wants to drive me nuts! So, one more round of "home gunsmithing" and I hope it works 'cause I really like this pistol when it's cookin', which is most of the time. __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 24, 2002, 06:27 AM	#14
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	If you feel compelled to sell the CZ, don't get the P-89. Get the newer and improved P-95. (Same basic gun done in polymer, with some enhancements to the barrel lockup design. P-89 hicaps work in the P-95.) Or just splurge and get the P-97. Just a few bucks more, but one of the better .45s avaialble. (I had a P-95 that I sold to buy a SIG P-239, and later regretted the sale. The P-239 was alright, but just didn't fit my hand; the P-95 was absolutely reliable and very accurate. But you know how it is when you get bitten by "brand name gun" lust...) All Rugers have the reputation for solid reliability, but you can encounter problem guns from Ruger, too. The CZ should be AS reliable as the P-95, point better, and be more accurate. UMC and Winchester white box you've been shooting is among the junkiest ammo you can buy. Some guns shoot them perfectly; more seem to choke. Try Sellier & Bellot, MagTech, IMI, CCI/Blazer, Denel, or PNP. All of them seem to work great in my (and other) CZs.

September 24, 2002, 11:39 AM	#15
hansolo Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2002 Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA Posts: 503	CZ Rider Thanks, Walt! I will keep my CZ, notwithstanding some growing pains I have to admit, most of the jams have been with Winchester Whitebox and UMC! I have been using CCI/Blazer occasionally, and have yet to jam with the aluminum casings... I've tried S&B, as it is Czech-made and CZ uses it to test their pistols....other than Magtech, I haven't heard of the other brands, but will look for them on your sage advice. Now, Doctor, how much is my bill? Molon Labe! __________________ PROUD TFL ALUMNUS MOLON LABE!

September 24, 2002, 12:41 PM	#16
Walt Sherrill Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: Winston-Salem, NC USA Posts: 6,348	Century Arms frequently has Denel or PMP ammo at a very good price. (You can often get 1000 rounds delivered for about $110.) (I wrote PNP in my first message. Its PMP.) http://www.centuryarms.com/ Depending on where you live, you can get most of the other ammo from Natchez SHooters Supply. Great service, good prices, but shipping may be an issue -- if you're a long distance from Tennessee. (I get S&B and CCI/Blazer from them by the case, for around $5 a box. Shipping is usually about $15. And quick.) IMI is an israeli-made ammo. Sometimes you can find it very cheap, but most of the time its 10%-15% higher than the other stuff I mentioned -- but very, very good ammo. Its my hardball of choice, when I'm feeling a little more "monied." (Doesn't happen often.)

July 12, 2009, 08:57 PM	#17
rhoggman Junior Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Posts: 7	Just a few years later I'm having the same issue with my CZ 75BD Police. I have ordered a new extractor spring, and a 14lb recoil spring. The recoil spring is currently an 18lb.

July 14, 2009, 09:01 AM	#18
CowTowner Senior Member Join Date: October 17, 2007 Location: Cowtown of course! Posts: 1,747	I have never had any issues with my CZ-75BD Police. Or with the Kadet .22LR conversion kit on the frame either. Just for kicks, have you tried shooting 124 Gr FMJ or TCMJ rounds? The heavier bullet may help to prove or dis-prove a recoil spring issue. __________________ NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearms Safety, Pistol and Rifle Instructor *“Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life......”* President John F. Kennedy

July 14, 2009, 10:14 PM	#19
rhoggman Junior Member Join Date: July 12, 2009 Posts: 7	I ended up replacing the factory recoil spring, and adding an increased power extractor spring. Seems to be cleared up but I have not really put enough rounds into it to say one way or the other.