Changing powder's in your measure.

1badz · January 10, 2011, 10:18 PM

I only own one powder measure right now, I load for 38spl 9mm 40s&w. Have been using bullseye in all but would like to try someting different,I always empty the hopper back into powder container and throw the handle a few times but there always seems to be some left/stuck in measure,should it be taken apart and wiped down before changing? Thanks...

**Unclenick** · January 10, 2011, 10:31 PM

I've never bothered. I just bang my palm on the measure a few times to shake the residual powder to the bottom and dump again. The flakes can sometimes get wedged into parts sideways, but don't usually leave enough to cause significant contamination. If it makes you uneasy, you can can take it apart. Most measures aren't that hard to disassemble.

Another tactic would be to run some light starting loads of your new powder, figuring that any remaining flakes will likely be swept out in the first charges of the new powder. You want to work the new loads up anyway, and with the reduced load a few flakes of another powder won't do anything untoward.

l98ster · January 11, 2011, 08:44 AM

I switch powders all the time on my dillon 550. In fact, I almost chage out powders everytime I reload (I use W231 for my 38 special and titegroup for my 9mm).

What you are doing is just fine. Empty the hopper, and work the charge bar back and forth a couple of times to empty the rest, and you are good to go on your next powder. There is no reason to wipe the residual powder out.

-George

TXJohn · January 11, 2011, 09:01 AM

I do the same as Unclenick, bang it a few times and add different powder. I have never had any Problems. I do look inside to make sure that some of the powder did not get hung in powder measure some how.

**Mike Irwin** · January 11, 2011, 09:03 AM

Maybe I'm being anal about it, but I keep a small, long artist's paint brush on my bench to brush out any remaining powder when I change.

Sevens · January 11, 2011, 09:08 AM

This may not help the OP a whole lot, depending on what measure he's using, but I recently came up with a new way to empty my measure when I'm done using that powder.

I keep it quite full when using it, re-filling at every 50 handgun rounds so it's never even down a quarter. (I'm looking for consistency here) So when my session ends or I need to change powders, I'm dumping a hopper that is 80-90% full.

I used to remove the entire device from the bench and dump it (carefully!) from the top, in to a funnel, in to the powder bottle, but as I get more familiar with the measure that I'm now using, I have found a shortcut.

I'm using a Lyman 55 measure and now, instead of pulling the unit from the bench and inverting it, I'm simply loosening my adjustment screws and drawing the LARGE cylinder outward to make a huge measuring chamber.

With this drawn out, I simply work the handle with the powder jug under the outlet and I cal dump an entire hopper full of powder in maybe 10 throws of the lever. Smooth and easy, and quick, and only a few granules are left.

Tapping or a brush as Mike Irwin suggested and I'm done. Slide the cylinder back in place and the measure is ready for the next use.

I love this Lyman 55.

Rifleman1776 · January 11, 2011, 09:38 AM

Not worth sweating, IMHO. A few granules sticking to the bottom won't affect anything.

1badz · January 17, 2011, 06:25 PM

Thanks for the info...I just wiped out the hopper and filled with other powder,and as luck would have it I like the first powder better.

fredneck · January 20, 2011, 08:44 PM

I use a long artist brush also.

1badz · January 22, 2011, 10:03 PM

After trying three differnt powders one thing that I foung was without changing the setting on my measure each of the powders measured differnt.I had it set to throw 3.5gr of bullseye,changed over to win231 and it threw 4.0gr. and with unique it did 3.2gr. Have any of you tried or noticed that before,I did check them all with a 2nd scale just 2 be sure.

1chig · January 22, 2011, 10:16 PM

powders do not weigh the same as you can now see, when you change your powder, you must start over, meaning adjust your powder measurer, and weigh untill you get the load you want. (listed for the powder you are using)

**Unclenick** · January 24, 2011, 10:34 AM

That is correct. Your measure is set in volume, not weight. The actual property you are referring to is called Bulk Density (BD). It varies in specific gravity (grams/cubic centimeter) from about as low as 0.3 (Trail Boss) to over 1.05 (Accurate #5). So they vary by over 3:1.

Another measure is Volume Measure Density (VMD) used by Lee and others to convert units of weight to cubic centimeters of volume. This is because some measure settings are calibrated in cubic centimeters. The VMD is just the number of cc's each unit of weight fills up. When the unit of weight is grains, because a grain is small, this number is always a fraction. When the unit of weight is grams (European reloaders use grams) the number is bigger. It is just the opposite of BD in that VMD is a measure of bulk, so it gets bigger as the powder gets less dense, while BD is a measure of density, so it gets smaller when the powder is less dense. In the common grain weight units, Trail Boss has a VMD of about 0.2172 cc/grain and #5 has one of about 0.0623 cc/grain according to Lee.

Lee's whole chart of VMD's is available to download free, here. If you look up the VMD for Bullseye on the chart and divide it by the VMD for 231 on the chart, the result is how many times heavier the 231 charge will be at the same volume in your measure.

Old Powder VMD / New Powder VMD = Multiplier for resulting charge weight.

Bullseye VMD/231 VMD = 0.1064/0.0931 = 1.1429

1.1429 × 3.5 grains = 4.0 grains

HERE'S THE IMPORTANT SAFETY CONCERN ABOUT ALL THIS:

Powder VMD's vary some from lot to lot. This means you CANNOT EXPECT that the measure setting you used with one lot will throw the same charge weight with the next lot of the same powder. Indeed YOU EVEN HAVE TO BE CAREFUL that moving a can of powder around, picking it up and setting it down, doesn't pack down the powder and change its bulk density a bit. Vibration from operating your measure can do the same thing to the powder in its hopper.

Accurate posts BD and VMD numbers for their powders in their descriptions (careful, they have two different sets of units for people using gram scales and for those using grain scales). These numbers differ from the Lee numbers because they are simply reporting what they measure and not erring low to prevent accidental overcharges, as Lee's chart does. (Don't worry about that. You're going to check with a scale to be sure of what you are actually getting anyway.) The main thing to pay attention to is that there is a lot tolerance spread. For Accurate #2, they give +/-5.5%; for 4100 it is +/-3.2%, etc. Other makers don't provide these numbers so conveniently, but you can expect the other brands to have a bulk tolerance range, too.

For the above reasons, it is good practice to check the charge your measure is throwing regularly. Do it most frequently in the beginning and after changing a powder and while the measure is still settling in. Do it after adding powder to the hopper and running a few settling charges through. Do it more often if you are loading near a maximum charge to make sure it doesn't drift. With a target load that is on the light side, the least checking is needed from the standpoint of safety, though the most may be needed from the standpoint of accuracy. Over time, as your throwing technique and experience get more established, you will get a feel for how often your measure actually needs to be checked with each powder.

Kevin Rohrer · January 24, 2011, 11:47 AM

I make sure the measure is completely empty by removing the measure from its stand, invert it, and shake/tap it until all powder is gone.

bigautomatic · January 24, 2011, 09:37 PM

This will probably make me seem extremely lazy, but I now have five RCBS throwers, one for each of the powders that I use most and marked as such with permanent marker. Certainly not the cheapest way to go, but I almost never have to empty one. I only have one drilled station for a thrower on the bench so that only one can be mounted at a time, (nearly) eliminating the chance of using the wrong powder for a given cartridge. The others are mounted in a rack in an enclosed area under the bench. It may not make any sense to others, but it works well for me.

January 10, 2011, 10:18 PM	#1
1badz Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 26	Changing powder's in your measure. I only own one powder measure right now, I load for 38spl 9mm 40s&w. Have been using bullseye in all but would like to try someting different,I always empty the hopper back into powder container and throw the handle a few times but there always seems to be some left/stuck in measure,should it be taken apart and wiped down before changing? Thanks...

January 11, 2011, 09:08 AM	#6
Sevens Senior Member Join Date: July 28, 2007 Location: Ohio Posts: 11,756	This may not help the OP a whole lot, depending on what measure he's using, but I recently came up with a new way to empty my measure when I'm done using that powder. I keep it quite full when using it, re-filling at every 50 handgun rounds so it's never even down a quarter. (I'm looking for consistency here) So when my session ends or I need to change powders, I'm dumping a hopper that is 80-90% full. I used to remove the entire device from the bench and dump it (carefully!) from the top, in to a funnel, in to the powder bottle, but as I get more familiar with the measure that I'm now using, I have found a shortcut. I'm using a Lyman 55 measure and now, instead of pulling the unit from the bench and inverting it, I'm simply loosening my adjustment screws and drawing the LARGE cylinder outward to make a huge measuring chamber. With this drawn out, I simply work the handle with the powder jug under the outlet and I cal dump an entire hopper full of powder in maybe 10 throws of the lever. Smooth and easy, and quick, and only a few granules are left. Tapping or a brush as Mike Irwin suggested and I'm done. Slide the cylinder back in place and the measure is ready for the next use. I love this Lyman 55. __________________ *Attention Brass rats and other reloaders:* I really need .327 Federal Magnum brass, no lot size too small. Tell me what caliber you need and I'll see what I have to swap. PM me and we'll discuss.

January 22, 2011, 10:16 PM	#11
1chig Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2009 Location: central missouri Posts: 246	powders do not weigh the same as you can now see, when you change your powder, you must start over, meaning adjust your powder measurer, and weigh untill you get the load you want. (listed for the powder you are using) __________________ those who anger you are those who control you!!!!

January 24, 2011, 10:34 AM	#12
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	That is correct. Your measure is set in volume, not weight. The actual property you are referring to is called Bulk Density (BD). It varies in specific gravity (grams/cubic centimeter) from about as low as 0.3 (Trail Boss) to over 1.05 (Accurate #5). So they vary by over 3:1. Another measure is Volume Measure Density (VMD) used by Lee and others to convert units of weight to cubic centimeters of volume. This is because some measure settings are calibrated in cubic centimeters. The VMD is just the number of cc's each unit of weight fills up. When the unit of weight is grains, because a grain is small, this number is always a fraction. When the unit of weight is grams (European reloaders use grams) the number is bigger. It is just the opposite of BD in that VMD is a measure of bulk, so it gets bigger as the powder gets less dense, while BD is a measure of density, so it gets smaller when the powder is less dense. In the common grain weight units, Trail Boss has a VMD of about 0.2172 cc/grain and #5 has one of about 0.0623 cc/grain according to Lee. Lee's whole chart of VMD's is available to download free, here. If you look up the VMD for Bullseye on the chart and divide it by the VMD for 231 on the chart, the result is how many times heavier the 231 charge will be at the same volume in your measure. Old Powder VMD / New Powder VMD = Multiplier for resulting charge weight. Bullseye VMD/231 VMD = 0.1064/0.0931 = 1.1429 1.1429 × 3.5 grains = 4.0 grains HERE'S THE IMPORTANT SAFETY CONCERN ABOUT ALL THIS: Powder VMD's vary some from lot to lot. This means you CANNOT EXPECT that the measure setting you used with one lot will throw the same charge weight with the next lot of the same powder. Indeed YOU EVEN HAVE TO BE CAREFUL that moving a can of powder around, picking it up and setting it down, doesn't pack down the powder and change its bulk density a bit. Vibration from operating your measure can do the same thing to the powder in its hopper. Accurate posts BD and VMD numbers for their powders in their descriptions (careful, they have two different sets of units for people using gram scales and for those using grain scales). These numbers differ from the Lee numbers because they are simply reporting what they measure and not erring low to prevent accidental overcharges, as Lee's chart does. (Don't worry about that. You're going to check with a scale to be sure of what you are actually getting anyway.) The main thing to pay attention to is that there is a lot tolerance spread. For Accurate #2, they give +/-5.5%; for 4100 it is +/-3.2%, etc. Other makers don't provide these numbers so conveniently, but you can expect the other brands to have a bulk tolerance range, too. For the above reasons, it is good practice to check the charge your measure is throwing regularly. Do it most frequently in the beginning and after changing a powder and while the measure is still settling in. Do it after adding powder to the hopper and running a few settling charges through. Do it more often if you are loading near a maximum charge to make sure it doesn't drift. With a target load that is on the light side, the least checking is needed from the standpoint of safety, though the most may be needed from the standpoint of accuracy. Over time, as your throwing technique and experience get more established, you will get a feel for how often your measure actually needs to be checked with each powder. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle Last edited by Unclenick; January 24, 2011 at 10:54 AM. Reason: Corrections

January 24, 2011, 11:47 AM	#13
Kevin Rohrer Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2010 Location: Medina, Ohio Posts: 1,049	A Clean Measure is a Safe & Happy Measure I make sure the measure is completely empty by removing the measure from its stand, invert it, and shake/tap it until all powder is gone. __________________ Member: Orange Gunsite Family, NRA--Life, ARTCA, and American Legion. Caveat Emptor: Cavery Grips/AmericanGripz/Prestige Grips/Stealth Grips from Clayton, NC. He is a scammer

January 10, 2011, 10:31 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I've never bothered. I just bang my palm on the measure a few times to shake the residual powder to the bottom and dump again. The flakes can sometimes get wedged into parts sideways, but don't usually leave enough to cause significant contamination. If it makes you uneasy, you can can take it apart. Most measures aren't that hard to disassemble. Another tactic would be to run some light starting loads of your new powder, figuring that any remaining flakes will likely be swept out in the first charges of the new powder. You want to work the new loads up anyway, and with the reduced load a few flakes of another powder won't do anything untoward. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

January 11, 2011, 08:44 AM	#3
l98ster Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2010 Location: Hopewell Junction, NY Posts: 454	I switch powders all the time on my dillon 550. In fact, I almost chage out powders everytime I reload (I use W231 for my 38 special and titegroup for my 9mm). What you are doing is just fine. Empty the hopper, and work the charge bar back and forth a couple of times to empty the rest, and you are good to go on your next powder. There is no reason to wipe the residual powder out. -George

January 11, 2011, 09:01 AM	#4
TXJohn Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Location: Ft Worth TX Posts: 163	I do the same as Unclenick, bang it a few times and add different powder. I have never had any Problems. I do look inside to make sure that some of the powder did not get hung in powder measure some how.

January 11, 2011, 09:03 AM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,383	Maybe I'm being anal about it, but I keep a small, long artist's paint brush on my bench to brush out any remaining powder when I change. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

January 11, 2011, 09:38 AM	#7
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	Not worth sweating, IMHO. A few granules sticking to the bottom won't affect anything.

January 17, 2011, 06:25 PM	#8
1badz Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 26	Thanks for the info...I just wiped out the hopper and filled with other powder,and as luck would have it I like the first powder better.

January 20, 2011, 08:44 PM	#9
fredneck Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2007 Location: Old Dominion Posts: 136	I use a long artist brush also.

January 22, 2011, 10:03 PM	#10
1badz Member Join Date: February 20, 2009 Location: MN Posts: 26	After trying three differnt powders one thing that I foung was without changing the setting on my measure each of the powders measured differnt.I had it set to throw 3.5gr of bullseye,changed over to win231 and it threw 4.0gr. and with unique it did 3.2gr. Have any of you tried or noticed that before,I did check them all with a 2nd scale just 2 be sure.

January 24, 2011, 09:37 PM	#14
bigautomatic Senior Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 610	This will probably make me seem extremely lazy, but I now have five RCBS throwers, one for each of the powders that I use most and marked as such with permanent marker. Certainly not the cheapest way to go, but I almost never have to empty one. I only have one drilled station for a thrower on the bench so that only one can be mounted at a time, (nearly) eliminating the chance of using the wrong powder for a given cartridge. The others are mounted in a rack in an enclosed area under the bench. It may not make any sense to others, but it works well for me.